Author Topic: Will of Roger Aylmer 1497  (Read 6763 times)

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Roger Aylmer 1497
« Reply #63 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 16:58 BST (UK) »
A bit of background. Take your pick:
A) Recorded as Toke, Took, Tuck, Tuke, and the diminutives Tookey, Tuckie and Tuckey, this interesting and most unusual surname is English but ultimately of pre 7th century Viking origins. It derives from the personal name Tuke, itself claimed to be short form of "Thorkettill" translating as "Thors cauldron",. However some researchers say the derivation is from "Tiodgeir", meaning "people-spear", so there may be several possibilities. The personal name as Toc is recorded in the Domesday Book for Yorkshire in 1086, whilst Rogerus filius Toke is mentioned in the Curia Rolls of Northampton in 1214. Early examples of the surname include Robert Toke in the Pipe Rolls of Suffolk in 1200; William Toke, in the Curia Rolls of Northamptonshire in 1211; and Richard Toki in the Hundred Rolls of Wiltshire in 1273.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Took#ixzz5TUOfnWMC

B) The name Took reached English shores for the first time with the ancestors of the Took family as they migrated following the Norman Conquest of 1066. The Took family lived in Kent. Their name, however, is a reference to Touques, Normandy, the family's place of residence prior to the Norman Conquest of England in 1066.

Early Origins of the Took family
The surname Took was first found in Kent where they held a family seat from early times after the Norman Conquest in 1066. They were descended from Le Sire de Touques from Pont-le-Eveque where the castle stood. Wace, the historian, mentions the Baron Touque as amongst the Companions of Duke William, at Hastings in 1066. The ancient family of Touque of Godington of Kent claim descent from this Norman Lord. We would be remiss if we did not address the legendary Friar Tuck. Two royal writs in 1417 refer to Robert Stafford, a Sussex chaplain who had assumed the alias of Frere Tuk. Little more is known about him other than this "Friar Tuck" was still at large in 1429.

Oh, this was super-fascinating!!! Thank you so much! :) :D :)

I had no idea that Friar Tuck was a proven historical person! That is so cool! And so recent! I had to laugh at myself for my initial reaction of feeling 1429 as 'recent', but after spending such a long time in the company of these people, it is starting to feel fairly recent *g*

Certainly he was close in time to these people! :)

Inspired by the above, I went for another search for Toke/Coke, and found the following:

Duke of Suffolk v Coke. Plaintiffs: John, duke of Suffolk, and William, earl of Arundell. Defendants: John Coke and Robert Aylmer
Reference: C 1/15/334
Description: Short title: Duke of Suffolk v Coke.
Plaintiffs: John, duke of Suffolk, and William, earl of Arundell.
Defendants: John Coke and Robert Aylmer.
Subject: Unspecified.
Date: 1443-1450, possibly 1455-1456
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7439364

Duke of Suffolk v Cook. Plaintiffs: John, duke of Suffolk. Defendants: John Cook and Robert
Aylmere, feoffees to uses

Reference: C 1/48/267
Description: Short title: Duke of Suffolk v Cook.
Plaintiffs: John, duke of Suffolk.
Defendants: John Cook and Robert Aylmere, feoffees to uses.
Subject: Manor of Grymston called Breklys, late of John Pagrave, esquire, and Henry Faldyate, grocer, of Norwich. Norfolk
Date: 1473-1475
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7446993

John de la Pole, 2nd Duke of Suffolk, (1442–1492)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_de_la_Pole,_2nd_Duke_of_Suffolk

William FitzAlan, 16th Earl of Arundel, 6th Baron Maltravers (1417–1487)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_FitzAlan,_16th_Earl_of_Arundel

(This William FitzAlan was by the way the great-grandfather of the Henry FitzAlan, 19th Earl of Arundel (1512–1580) who married Katherine Grey, Lady Maltravers (d.1542) the daughter of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquis of Dorset, and who was the aunt of Lady Jane Grey, whose tutor Bishop John Aylmer was :) )

Such an interesting story behind the name Toke!

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Roger Aylmer 1497
« Reply #64 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 17:02 BST (UK) »
Could these be the same people? Same names of testator and executor. It's 15 years later, in 1512, and at the beginning of the process, but sometimes it took that long to get started.


Hilary term 1512
 
Suffolk. Thomas Tevell and Robert Balhed, executors of Simon Broke, of Ufford, Suff, yeoman, versus Thomas Aylmer, of Shelley, Suff, esquire, executor of Roger Aylmer, of Tadyngton, Suff, esquire. Debt of 50 marks.

Second entry:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no998/bCP40no998dorses/IMG_0764.htm

I think they must be! Thank you so much!!!

There you have Shelley - it seems as if Thomas Aylmer and his wife actually resided there for some time before selling the manor of Shelley in 1517 - and Roger Aylmer, of Tadyngton :)

I honestly feel rather proud of us for having found all of this stuff :)

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of Roger Aylmer 1497
« Reply #65 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 17:11 BST (UK) »
After reviewing the instances of capital C and T in this will, I would say that the place referenced in Snippets 2, 5 & 6 of this will is Tatyngton.

The clearest example is that in Snippet 5.  The main distinguishing feature is the crossbar extending to the left of the curved central section.


Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Roger Aylmer 1497
« Reply #66 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 17:40 BST (UK) »
After reviewing the instances of capital C and T in this will, I would say that the place referenced in Snippets 2, 5 & 6 of this will is Tatyngton.

The clearest example is that in Snippet 5.  The main distinguishing feature is the crossbar extending to the left of the curved central section.

Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

😊😊😊😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

We are so good!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it is Tatyngton!!!

Splendid!!!!!!! :) :D :) :D :)


Offline francoso

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Re: Will of Roger Aylmer 1497
« Reply #67 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 20:03 BST (UK) »
Willow, out of interest, the pightle we knew as kids is on the RHS just down the Old Wymondham Road from its corner with Mile Road in Bunwell in Norfolk, and only a matter of meters past the Took family on the LHS who we knew who were millers (mill run by a donkey engine, not a windmill). Adds a bit of connection to 500 years ago.
francoso

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Roger Aylmer 1497
« Reply #68 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 21:52 BST (UK) »
Oh, that is so interesting! That might even be the same Took family! :)

What a lovely story! :)




Offline francoso

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Re: Will of Roger Aylmer 1497
« Reply #69 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 22:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Willow. Makes one wonder if the Duke of Suffolk was engaged against Cook/Coke or Took/Toke. After all, the transcribers of the originals could well have had the same confusion between "C" and "T" as we did. No one should claim that the original transcribers were infallible.
regards
francoso

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Roger Aylmer 1497
« Reply #70 on: Wednesday 10 October 18 23:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Willow. Makes one wonder if the Duke of Suffolk was engaged against Cook/Coke or Took/Toke. After all, the transcribers of the originals could well have had the same confusion between "C" and "T" as we did. No one should claim that the original transcribers were infallible.
regards
francoso

Yes, exactly! That is the precise thought that struck me as well!!! :)

And since whatever it is that Cook/Coke or Took/Toke was up to that incurred the Duke's displeasure, he did it together with a Robert Aylmer, it makes me wonder if there was old friendship between the families.

Or, more prosaically, they lived near each other, so that generation after generation got the opportunity to befriend each other :)