Author Topic: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's  (Read 1039 times)

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 11 October 18 17:40 BST (UK) »
OK so we have David Beevers marrying Hannah Garnett on 15 August 1914.  Image states "at the parish church in the parish of St Andrew in the County of Leeds"  and the WYAS reference is P62/20/11.

So the marriage took place at St Andrew.  There are no marriage entries for that date and with that couple at any other church.

Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

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Offline dawnsh

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Re: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's
« Reply #37 on: Thursday 11 October 18 18:46 BST (UK) »
No, because the registers of St Georges which was almagamated with St Andrew has the same reference number

Take another look at the names of the churches here and their archive reference numbers

http://www.wyjs.org.uk/media/69612/collection-guide-1-parish-registers.pdf

interesting link, but no mention of RPD62

See page 28, listings for both parishes
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

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Offline BumbleB

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Re: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's
« Reply #38 on: Friday 12 October 18 07:43 BST (UK) »
And the entry for the marriage at YorkshireBMD.

Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline Paulo Leeds

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Re: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's
« Reply #39 on: Friday 12 October 18 11:57 BST (UK) »
Going back to my quandary, in 1914 how many Churches called themselves the Parish Church in the Parish of St Andrews Leeds do we know this yet?

One.....

In this case though it seems there are/were two:

St Georges Church, Great George Street
St Andrews Church, Cavendish Street

?

Did you read what I wrote a couple of days ago:
It seems that the WYAS reference RDP62 relates to Leeds St George and newer parishes that were created out of it.....

The National Index of Parish Registers (book) notes that St Andrew, Cavendish Street was a parish created in 1844 from Leeds St George, with which it was reunited in 1959. So that looks like the one you want. St Andrew's church had been demolished by 1966.

yes I read this but still confused as to whether that makes it Leeds St George or Leeds Cavendish Street...?

Offline dawnsh

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Re: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's
« Reply #40 on: Friday 12 October 18 13:28 BST (UK) »
ok, my last post before bowing out of this topic

The British Library website has some excellent maps in its on-line collection, especially this, an 1886 fire map

St Georges Church in Great George Street is today still situated next to the infirmary, see the top of pink box 13 and blue box 27.

St Andrews church can be found on Cavendish Street, go west from pink box 13, under Hanover Square and a bit further along

A link to the BL page is here
http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/yorkshire/mapsu145ubu14u1ufs001r.html

when you go to the site you can overlay this 1886 on top of a current google earth map, click the yellow tab under the image and descriptive text.


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline arthurk

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Re: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's
« Reply #41 on: Friday 12 October 18 13:44 BST (UK) »
But you started out already knowing the marriage was at St Andrew's:

If a marriage certificate 1914 says:

Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the Parish of S Andrews in the County of Leeds - how does one find out which Church that is/was?

We've explained to you:
(a) there were a number of churches in the Leeds area called St Andrew's, but the descriptions and reference numbers at Yorkshire BMD and in the WYAS catalogue point to it being the one in Cavendish Street
(b) St Andrew's parish was created out of the parish of St George's (and was later reunited with it), hence it sharing the same reference number in the WYAS catalogue, but in 1914 they were completely separate parishes
(c) normally there's only one parish church in a parish
(d) the bride lived more or less next door to St Andrew's in Cavendish Street
(e) the register/certificate clearly states that the marriage took place in St Andrew's

So I don't understand where you're coming from now. At the start you wanted to know which St Andrew's church it was, and presumably where it was, and we've told you and explained how we reached our conclusions.

Unless there's some reason you think the marriage took place somewhere else, that you haven't told us about, surely that's the end of it?
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's
« Reply #42 on: Friday 12 October 18 13:57 BST (UK) »
Hello

Leeds Indexers has this from Kelly's 1893 Directory of Leeds ...
http://www.leedsindexers.co.uk/Churches/101-125/101_20St_20Andrews_20Leeds.html
Google snippet view ...
St. Andrew's is an ecclesiastical parish, formed Dec. 6 1844, out of that of St George, but a portion of it has since been appropriated to form the parish of St. Simon. The church, situated in Cavendish Street, and errected by subscription in 1845 ...

Mark

 ----------

Google took me to Family Search and as I was signed in, gave me this list, Mark  ...

Leeds Christ-Church, Meadow-lane - 1824
Leeds Holy Trinity - 1721  - FHL has from 1813 only
Leeds All Saints, York Rd - 1850
Leeds All Souls Blackman Lane - 1880
Leeds St Andrew Cavendish  - 1845
Leeds St Barnabas, Brewery Field (see Holbeck)
Leeds St Clement (see Sheepscar)
Leeds St Hilda - 1881
Leeds St James - see Horsforth
Leeds St John the Evangelist - 1631
Leeds St Luke North Street - 1841
Leeds St Mary, Quarry Hill - 1826
Leeds St Matthew Camp Rd - 1847(see also Holbeck)
Leeds St Matthew Little London  (see Little London)
Leeds St Paul - 1793 - FHL has from 1813 only
Leeds St Peter* - 1572
Leeds St Philip - 1848
Leeds St Saviour - 1845
Leeds St Thomas - 1841
 

Here are Leeds' district churches which are all attached to, and lying within Leeds Parish (St Peter) boundaries:

Armley St Bartholomew - 1644
Beeston - 1720 - FHL has some for 1700's only
Bramley -
Burley - 1630
Burmantofts St Stephen - 1854 FHL has only 1881-1882
Buslingthorpe St Michael - 1854
Chapel-Allerton - 1724
Farnley - 1724-1813
Headingley - FHL has (supposedly) from ~1724-1812
Holbeck - FHL has from  1724-1812 only - see also St Matthews below
Holbeck St Barnabas Brewery Field - 1855
Holbeck St John - 1847
Holbeck St Luke - 1868
Holbeck St Matthew - 1813
Horsforth St James - 1847
Hunslet - 1686 - FHL has from 1764? only
Hunslet St Jude - 1853
Kirkstall - 1829
Little London St Matthews - 1854
Mount Pleasant St George - 1837
Seacroft - 1846
Sheepscar St Clement - 1866
Wortley St John the Baptist - 1787 - FHL has from 1851 only
Wortley-de-Leeds (New Wortley) - 1879
Woodhouse St Mark - 1826
Woodside - see Horsforth


Hello

I found in the North-east of England that the Marriages stop in one Parish Register and start in the Register of the adjacent Parish Church and after a period the Marriages revert back.

The Poster will have to check all the Marriage Registers manually of Churches affiliated to the Church of interest (like we had to do in the North-east).

Because the Marriage was after 1837 and if the Service Registrar has submitted the Church copy of the Marriage to the Local / District Superintendent Registrar, then a Civil Certificate (if the Church copy is not online) from the GRO at 9.25 posted to UK, could be ordered?

I suspect (in view of my comment a few days ago, in bold above) that the Marriage Registers of several Churches will need to be inspected.

If the Marriage or other event does not appear on the GRO Index, but you are sure the event was registered, you could send off the fee to the current Registrar of the District and ask them to search and supply a copy of the Marriage.

I don't know what the procedure is now, but about 20 years ago they sent my Cheque back for my Copy Certificate Application when that search was unsuccessful and asked me to resend my Application to the adjacent District Registrar.

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Offline Paulo Leeds

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Re: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's
« Reply #43 on: Friday 12 October 18 14:40 BST (UK) »
ok, my last post before bowing out of this topic

The British Library website has some excellent maps in its on-line collection, especially this, an 1886 fire map

St Georges Church in Great George Street is today still situated next to the infirmary, see the top of pink box 13 and blue box 27.

St Andrews church can be found on Cavendish Street, go west from pink box 13, under Hanover Square and a bit further along

A link to the BL page is here
http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/yorkshire/mapsu145ubu14u1ufs001r.html

when you go to the site you can overlay this 1886 on top of a current google earth map, click the yellow tab under the image and descriptive text.

ok thanks for all your time. Can I confirm - are you bowing out in agreement that we still can't be sure whether this wedding was at St Andrews, Cavendish Street, St Georges, or another Church with any certainty?

Also that there is nowhere telling us a list of Parish's of Leeds and Churches associated with each?

Offline Paulo Leeds

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Re: Trouble with old marriage records and Leeds Parish Church's
« Reply #44 on: Friday 12 October 18 14:47 BST (UK) »
Quote
We've explained to you:
(a) there were a number of churches in the Leeds area called St Andrew's, but the descriptions and reference numbers at Yorkshire BMD and in the WYAS catalogue point to it being the one in Cavendish Street
(b) St Andrew's parish was created out of the parish of St George's (and was later reunited with it), hence it sharing the same reference number in the WYAS catalogue, but in 1914 they were completely separate parishes
(c) normally there's only one parish church in a parish
(d) the bride lived more or less next door to St Andrew's in Cavendish Street
(e) the register/certificate clearly states that the marriage took place in St Andrew's

A - The wedding is RDP62 and CE38. CE38 means "St Andrew" but more than one church is linked to St Andrew. RDP62 means 4 churches (St George, St Andrew and 2 others)
B - how do we know St George and St Andrew were separate in 1914?
C - Normally yes but it was established early in this thread that there were several under St Andrews
D - the brides address isn't conclusive