Thomas Cole Bethnal Green

[jim1]

Thinking along the same lines Max. A name mix up (as I did) is quite possible over time.
Just saw your last post. If the Germans had shot as a punishment he would be dead.
If any part of the story is true he was probably wounded & then taken prisoner.

[BB78]

Nothing on FindMyPast Philip.

I think we should have explained that there really is no type of service record that would have a detailed description of the type of incident, the details of which have been handed down (and parts of which you have already found aren't quite right). So it isn't really a needle in a haystack, there is no needle to be searched for.

Philip's thought that there might have been a newspaper report is a good one but I find nothing in the archive on Findmypast.  If you are local to Bethnal Green you might like to visit the local library to see local newspapers of the time.

Jim's explanation of FP No 1 perhaps illustrates how one incident can be conflated with another as the story passes down the generations.  Interesting that brother Herbert was sentenced to such a punishment in 1916 and again in 1917!!  He was also a POW.

MaxD

I’m missing something, what punishment was Herbert sentenced to?

Got to be honest I didn’t think there would be a ‘detailed account’ of what actually happened anywhere, I know that even in War Diaries it’s unlikely to find anyone other than Officers mentioned by name, I was more hoping that given that they thought he wouldn’t survive that maybe there would be some medical record somewhere, maybe something to do with his medical discharge, I didn’t know if it would make the papers or if it was the kind of thing they were told not to report in the press - I’m not local to Bethnal Green but will make a point of going there one day to check the local papers.  Rather than an official detailed account say on his service record I’m looking for clues, I thought if I could find his regiment then I could track where they were, check the war diaries, maybe narrow down where he was and when this might of happened and you never know I might have stumbled across a mention of something, I’m not expecting to find his name in bold type with all the gory details but something would be good. I was also wondering as Elizabeth travelled out to (I’m guessing) France to see him and again I’m guessing this would’ve been on a military ship would her name appear anywhere? The ship was torpedoed but didn’t sink (that I know of, I don’t know how badly damaged it was) is there any way of tracking the story from this?
Are there records of ships torpedoed between England and France from late 1914 and early 1915? and if there are are we talking a list of hundreds? Again showing my lack of knowledge here and yes I realise I’m clutching at straws.

[jim1]

His F.P.'s

[BB78]

Thanks Jim and that’s Herbert’s F.P. ... Field Punishment Record?
Can you decipher it? Do you understand it? Other than dates I can’t make anything out, why can’t people write more legibly.

[jim1]

Tried by Field Grand Court Martial 18/2/16. Charge: neglect to the prejudice of good order & military discipline.
Sentence: 2 months F.P. no.1.
Too much damage to the second one.

[MaxD]

Beneath the printed sentence:

Tried by Field General Court Martial 18 2 16
Charge - neglect to the prejudice of good order and military discipline  [could have been anything from not cleaning his rifle to not carrying out some duty he was supposed to)
Sentence - 3 (2?) months Field Punishment No 1 (described by Jim earlier)

He was also tried for absence of 17 days in August 1917 for which he received another two months FP No 1.

I referred earlier to a Silver War Badge.  This was given to men discharged with a disability.  There isn't one for Thomas.  (Herbert was discharged normally in 1919)

You asked for an educated guess. Herbert's two punishments of FP No1 (tied to a gun carriage for a part of the day and shackled for the remainder), his wounding in March 1918, his being taken as a POW have all morphed into the story and somehow been attributed to his younger brother.   

What I meant earlier about there being no needle is that I fear you may be looking for a story that doesn't exist.  That is of course only my opinion and I know how difficult it can be to let go of long held family beliefs so you, of course, will make up your own mind.

MaxD

[jonw65]

Strange though because we thought he was home from the war before 1918, one of his sons that died was born in August 1918 so would’ve been conceived the end of 1917, this baby was Stanley George Cole and he died in December 1918 and was buried 30 December 1918.

Have you got the birth certificates for Thomas George Cole and Stanley George Cole? If not, it might be a good place to start - see what they say about the father, albeit at the beginning and end of the war.

Have you found Thomas on the 1918 electoral register, his wife won't be listed as she wasn't old enough, so a known address would be useful. The burial record of Stanley George at City of London and Tower Hamlets Cemetery might possibly help.

Then there are the pension records, the cards only for London I believe, that are due online in November. Although it sadly appears that they are going to be on fold3 with only an index on ancestry. But if Thomas did serve, he was married with child, he might be in them.

[jonw65]

I referred earlier to a Silver War Badge.  This was given to men discharged with a disability.  There isn't one for Thomas.  (Herbert was discharged normally in 1919)

How can we be sure there isn't one, when we don't know which regiment Thomas was in? If indeed he was in the army!

[MaxD]

How can we be sure there isn't one, when we don't know which regiment Thomas was in? If indeed he was in the army!

I missed out the word "identifiable". In my earlier post I wrote:
There is no Silver War Badge Record that can be identified as his.

MaxD