Author Topic: Avica the mysterious woman  (Read 19861 times)

Offline JAP

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Re: Avica the mysterious woman
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 14 August 05 03:03 BST (UK) »
That is a good idea.  Let's hope Avica/Evica/Abitha/Avies is to be found there.  And perhaps William WILLSON or MASTERS (who was b 1826, bap 1828)?

There appear to be at least three John FINCH families with children born Harbury around the relevant time.
1. John FINCH and 'Avica' (a John FINCH m Avies WILSON 1832 Coventry)
Known children from IGI - Henry Thomas bap 1834 (mother Evica), John bap 1836 (mother Evica), Hannah bap 1839 (mother Abitha), Eliza. bap Dec 1841 (mother Abitha)
2. John FINCH and Mary (Mary being from Fifefield, Oxfordshire)
Known children from censuses (not found in the IGI apart from an LDS submission for Thomas) - Thomas ca 1834, John ca 1836, Hannah ca 1839
3. John FINCH and Hannah (a John FINCH m Hannah JEACOCK 1818 Harbury)
Known children from IGI - Ann bap 1818, Mary bap Apr 1822, Samuel bap Jun 1822, William bap and died 1826.  (Two children bap at different times in 1822 seems strange.)

John FINCH and 'Avica', and John FINCH and Mary (IF they are two different couples) certainly confused the issue by having children at the same time and with the same or similar names.

Unfortunately, as far as I can see, we don't seem to have John and 'Avica's' Henry Thomas, and John and Mary's Thomas, both appearing in a  census at the same time - similarly for the (seeming) two Johns and the (seeming) two Hannahs.  Which certainly raises doubts.

Incidentally, I see that 'Avica' has been transcribed as Avis on the Warwickshire site at
http://www.hunimex.net/warwick
in the List of Illegitimacy Orders.

JAP
This post has been amended as I made an error

Offline JAP

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Re: Avica the mysterious woman
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 14 August 05 03:40 BST (UK) »
1851
HO 107 2077 folio 95 Harbury Southam
In the household of his parents, John and Mary
Thomas FINCH Son 17 Farm Labourer Harbury

1859
FINCH Anne Maria, Birth, Mar qtr 1859, Southam

1861
RG9/2241, ED 8, Folio 103, Page 9 - Southam, Harbury, Pound Street
All born Harbury
FINCH Henry Thos, Head, 27, Farm Labourer & Primitive Methodist Local Preacher
Do Emma, Wife, 24
Do Emma Eliza, Dau, 6, Scholar
Do Eling (transcribed as Eliza) E, Dau, 4, Scholar
Do Anne Maria, Dau, 2, Scholar

1871
RG10/3218, ED 6, Folio 65, Page 4 - Southam, Harbury, Pound Street
All FINCHs born Harbury
FINCH Thomas, Head, 37 (transcribed as 27), Farm Labourer
Do Emma, Wife, 33
Do Ellen, Daughter, 14, Scholar
Do Anne, do, 12, do
Do Clara, do, 9, do
Do Sarah, do, 6, do
Do Caroline, do, 3, do
HOLTHAM Thomas, Lodger - Wife's Father (transcribed as Mother), Widower, 78, Labourer, b Warwickshire Shotswell

1871
FINCH Harriet Hannah, Birth, Jun qtr 1871, Southam

1874
FINCH Annie Maria, Death, 15, Dec qtr 1874, Southam

1875
FINCH Henry Thomas, Birth, Jun qtr 1875, Southam

1879
FINCH Thomas Henry, Death, 45, Mar qtr 1879, Southam

1881
RG11/3114, ED 8, Folio 90, Page 15 - Southam, Harbury, South Side
All born Harbury
FINCH Emma, Head, Widow, 44, Chair Woman
Do Sarah Ann, Daur, 18, General Servant
Do Harriet, Daur, 9, Scholar
Do Henry, Son, 6, Scholar

1881
FINCH Sarah Ann, Death, 18, Jun qtr 1881, Southam

1890
FINCH Harriet Hannah, Marriage, Jun qtr 1890, Southam.  Males on page are John Edwin HONE and Frederick SMITH.

1891
RG12/2448, ED1, Folio 34, Page 4 - Binley
At The Oak Farm, in the household of farmer Joseph HANDLEY:
Hy. Thos. FINCH, Ser., S, 18, ,Cowman, Employed, Harbury, Warwickshire, ,
The above is from:
http://www.hunimex.net/warwick
On another site it has been transcribed as Hy Theo LINCH and the relationship 'F Ser' has been transcribed as Father Servant ...

The BDMs included above may be relevant - there are others which may also be relevant.

JAP
This post has been amended as I made an error

Offline JAP

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Re: Avica the mysterious woman
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 14 August 05 04:32 BST (UK) »
And just a little more.

From the IGI
Hannah FINCH m Edward JAKEMAN in Harbury, 1858

1891 census
RG12/1179, ED 10, Folio 157, Page 13 - Swerford, Oxfordshire
JAKEMAN Edward, Head, 58, Carrier, b Swerford
Do Hannah, Wife, 52, Assistant Carrier, b Warwickshire Harbury
Do Frank E., Nephew, 19, Assistant Carrier, b Swerford
GOFF Flora, Servant, 13, b Swerford

I note that Swerford is in the same registration district (Chipping Norton) as Mary's birthplace Fifield (though they are quite a fair distance apart) ...

JAP

Offline Valda

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Re: Avica the mysterious woman
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 14 August 05 09:15 BST (UK) »
The William Wilson I have in Harbury in 1851 is

HO 107 2077 folio 102
William Wilson Head Married 25 Rail Labourer Harbury
Caroline Wilson Wife 25 Harbury
Daniel Wilson Son 6 Harbury
Mary A. Wilson Daughter 4 Harbury
Elizabeth Wilson Daughter 1 Harbury

Regards
Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline JAP

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Re: Avica the mysterious woman
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 14 August 05 09:46 BST (UK) »
This is a thought from left field and may well have no substance whatsoever.  But it has been occurring to me for a while (and no doubt to others) that 'Avica' may have become Mary.  And I've wondered whether it might have had anything to do with the Primitive Methodists - noting that Henry Thomas was a Primitive Methodist Local Preacher in 1861.

Here's a hypothesis -
Sometime between 1841 (Eliza's baptism with mother Abitha) and 1851 (when we see Mary in the census provided by Valda), the family became Primitive Methodists.  Perhaps 'Avica' had not been baptized previously (or was re-baptized though I think that was not recommended by the PMs) and, on her baptism, took a less exotic name which was more in keeping with her conversion to a down-to-earth belief?  I've Googled and can't find anything to support this hypothesis but who knows.

It would certainly be interesting to see if there are any clues as to where 'Avica' (Avies) came from in the OPR of the 1832 Coventry marriage.

And, of course, all of the above may well be a total furphy.

After all, if 'Avica' came from outwith Harbury, surely the "good people" of Harbury would have been trying to foist her and William back onto her original parish?

JAP
PS: I have (my children's forebears) David Osborne and Ruth Ann Dalton (daughter of John Dalton and Rizpah Siddle) who married in the Primitive Methodist Parsonage in Castlemaine, Victoria.  Rizpah sounds exotic but is a biblical name - and one wonders how anyone could give such a tragic name to a little baby girl.   

Offline Valda

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Re: Avica the mysterious woman
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 14 August 05 10:31 BST (UK) »
I had wondered about a name change which is why I suggested the search in the Harbury 1841 census. However according to my Phillimore Atlas and Index of Parish registers Fifield is on the IGI for the period and no wilson baptisms are showing.

Regards
Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline JAP

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Re: Avica the mysterious woman
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 14 August 05 11:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Valda,  Yes, I twigged the way you were thinking - and thought I'd found Henry Thomas in 1851 (excitement!) but then found (disillusionment!) that I was actually looking at 1891 :'(  I'd thought I was looking at one of the umpteen 1851 extracts on the hunimex site but only later found I wasn't - ergo my comments in blue (I mention this in case anyone saw my before and after versions).  Though I have to admit that I didn't go through all the 1851 extracts on the hunimex site.  But the children really don't seem to appear together in censuses which supports the idea that it is just one family.  However, as you said, 1841 should be the clincher.

And yes, I trawled through Fifield for WILSON and/or Mary and/or any version of 'Avica'.  Perhaps Louise's romantic thoughts about the exotic name are right - perhaps the mysterious 'Avica' really was a traveller/gypsy!  I'm hoping that Louise will look at some Parish Registers and/or get some certificates which might reveal all!  JAP

Offline LouiseB31

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Re: Avica the mysterious woman
« Reply #16 on: Monday 15 August 05 09:33 BST (UK) »
Wow

I feel like the lucky recipient of an August challenge!

You have been working so hard all weekend while I was blissfully unaware.

Thank you so much for this.

It seems to me highly probable that Avica changed her name to Mary if it had to be changed to something. I would think Avica has something in common with Mary, perhaps in the latin, I am thinking of Ave Maria - does it mean Hail?

I am going to have to print all this out and scrutinise it and try and work out who is who from your mountain of delicious information. Then I am going to have to order some certificates, once I have worked out which ones will help.

My father wondered if Avica might have been from Staverton where the baby's father was from, and that she was banished to Harbury in shame, that she might therefore have been from Northants hence my failure to find her in Warwickshire. However, as one of you pointed out, why would the parish fathers in Harbury take on the burden when they could send her home?

I have never come across any Finches in my family tree before, it is quite exciting, and to think William had not only the three brothers he probably never met on his father's side but another shovel full on his mother's side.

How fabulous to discover all this new family.

I shall be back when I have sorted it all out

Regards

Louise



Baldock, Millward, Harriman, Wilson, Hilton, Fairclough, Hadley, Bedford, Brady, Butler, Watchorn, Marshall, Jutson, Pinfold, Masters, Mottram, Upton, Daffern, Shellswell, Skelding, Wall, Taylor, Scattergood, Ferguson, Innous, Mulley, Hyams

Offline LouiseB31

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Re: Avica the mysterious woman
« Reply #17 on: Monday 15 August 05 11:25 BST (UK) »
The 1841 census for Harbury is online, which is rather fortunate.

http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/freecens/1841/41135b.html

Transcript of Piece HO107/1135

1 Hough's Lane, Harbury

John Finch,40, Ag Lab,WAR
Mary Finch, 35, WAR
Thomas Finch, 7,WAR
John Finch, 5, WAR
Hannah Finch, 2, WAR

Note it says they were all born in Warwickshire which we already know is not true, so either it is poorly transcribed or poorly written.

There are no other Finches at all.

There is no-one whose name begins with Av or Ev.

There is no William Wilson but there is a William Masters of the right age (15) - Masters was his father's name and perhaps he had not yet decided which he was going to be - he settled on Wilson in the longer term.

Unfortunately this extract does not show the relationships between the individuals

Harbury, East End,1

William Masters, 50, Farmer,WAR,
Hannah Masters, 50, WAR,
William Masters,15, WAR,
William Martin,5, Visitor (Crossed Out),WAR,
Hannah Martin,,4, Visitor (Crossed Out),WAR,
Mary Anne Martin, 2, Visitor (Crossed Out),WAR,

This 15 year old boy could either be my GGGGrandfather living with some relatives but not his parents, or he could be a relative of my GGGGGrandfather, thus explaining how the biological parents met - during a family visit by Stephen to the village - or might be nothing whatsoever to do with me.

Please advise me what this means and what you think I should do next while I continue to digest the wealth of information you have sent me.

Thanks very much again

Louise
Baldock, Millward, Harriman, Wilson, Hilton, Fairclough, Hadley, Bedford, Brady, Butler, Watchorn, Marshall, Jutson, Pinfold, Masters, Mottram, Upton, Daffern, Shellswell, Skelding, Wall, Taylor, Scattergood, Ferguson, Innous, Mulley, Hyams