Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80

[Garen]

Hello bettyve

Many apologies for missing your message. I'm afraid your dates are a bit outside my area - the Second Anglo-Afghan War was 1878-80. I believe the Dorset Regiment was involved in the 1895 Chitral campaign though (needs checking) - so maybe look there? I'm guessing you've looked for his service record on findmypast.co.uk - if it exists it will tell you any medals and campaigns he was involved in.

Best of luck to you - Garen

Hi Garen
I am looking for any information on my Grandfather, Alfred Ennis who was in the Dorsetshire Regiment 1895 - 1903 and went to
Malta and India.  Do hope you may be able to help.  Best wishes.  bettyve

[JaneyCanuck]

Hello Garen - I confess to having skipped ahead a little through the thread's 15 pages, but I imagine my question is novel.

About 5 years ago I discovered that my great-grandfather's surname (and hence my mother's surname) was fake, except that it was a given name of his younger sister, and the "why" of the name itself is still my mystery.

The "why" of the switch is now known. Some 3 or 4 years after that discovery, I had a chat with the son of my mum's cousin -- and it turned out that he knew the reason for the name switch, from his mum, even though she had had no idea that there had been a switch and the name we all knew was fake.

My gr-grfather had apparently confided in her when she was young, and the big part of his story was that he had deserted from the military in India. Apparently when his contracted five years were up, he was told he was not being discharged and instead was being re-upped, to Afghanistan.

All of this fit perfectly with what I had discovered: first wife died in 1873, great-grandfather next seen in 1881 census in different county, under new name. If he had signed on in 1873 and gone to India, five years would take us to 1878, the start of the second A-A war.

My gr-grfather later emigrated first to Australia and then to Canada, under his fake name, with various other little tells I can see apart from the fake surname, evidently to avoid detection (the names and ages of his children on passenger lists are inaccurate, his son's WWI CEF attestation papers state that the parents were of West Ham, when they had been in Canada a decade and the mother was deceased). Apparently he had nightmares all his long life about the old Queen coming to get him.

So, a question out of all this. (I thought you might be interested in the tale anyhow, as flesh on the bones of one of the people profoundly affected by it all.)

Would there be any record of him at all, anywhere, relating to his being in the military/deserting in India? (He was living in Berkshire at the time he would have enrolled, although he was from Cornwall and had more recently lived in Poplar.) I should give his original name -- unfortunately not uncommon: Ernest Hill. I haven't been able to find any trace of him in military records, but that isn't my forte.

More generally, I have gathered that he was not the only soldier to say farewell rather than go to Afghanistan in 1878. A smart choice; how history does repeat itself. Do you have any knowledge, generally, about these so-called desertions? (I say so-called because in my gr-grf's case, at least as the tale is told, it was the state that broke its promise, not him.)

Any background-type info about thiis situation that you might have would be of interest - thanks!

[GrahamSimons]

Interesting indeed! I have found a relation involved in that Afghan campaign, and you may like to add him to your database. Here's what I know, and there is a small question buried at the end.

He was born John James Henry Simons, son of John Simons and Frances [whose full maiden name I believe to be Frances Money Carter Stevens], in St Pancras in 1844;  baptised Old Church, St Pancras 28th November. He was third of seven children, all of whom seem to have been of interest in one way or another – many changed their surnames, and three more had connections with India.

His service as far as I've traced it is: Ensign 41st Foot The Welsh Regiment 11/1/1867; thence to Bengal Staff Corps 2/1/1871 as Lieutenant; 11/1/1879 as Captain; 11/1/1887 as Major, Lt Colonel 11/1/1893. On 29/9/1899 he was listed on the unemployed supernumerary list. His record of service with the 41st Foot is at The National Archives but adds little to this; it states he served abroad in India from 26/7/1867 and then transferred to the Bengal Staff Corps. The marriage and legitimate children sections of his record are blank (since he married after transfer to the Staff Corps, to Lily Alice Hugh Drummond, in 1881 in Sutlej). It seems he purchased his commission. This fits with a Gazette entry: 41st Foot, Lieutenant John James Money-Simons receives the value of an Ensigncy on transfer to the Indian Staff Corps. [publ 13 August 1872].


Other notes say he lived after leaving the army in Glen Alla Ray, County Londonderry.


The War Service section of the Army List is useful. Afghan War 1878-80: Mentioned in Dispatches 4/5/1880. With the Thai Chotiali Field Force, advance to and defence of Judulluck, action of Saidabad, march from Kabul to the relief of Kandahar, 1st September. Medal and Clasp. Hazara Expedition 1888: Medal and Clasp.

From India Lists etc: Kandahar 1/9/1880; Mentioned in Dispatches (General Biddulph's no 194 16/5/1879).
Spoke Punjabi.
1871 24th Native Infantry [this later becomes 24th Bengal Infantry], Lt 2/1/1871, First Wing Subaltern, still listed as J J M Simons.
1879 Captain from 2/12/1875
1882 Now listed as Money-Simons [Comment: was this triggered by an inheritance? His youngest sister changed her name to Money at some stage.]
1888 Major from 25/4/1888

He died at the Hotel d'Angleterre, Vevey, Switzerland, 28/6/1930, estate value £2564/10/1. Buried 8th July in East Sheen Cemetery.

His probate record is also interesting: The Admon was grated to his brother Herbert Rowland Symons [another name change] states that he was a widower without issue or parent, intestate; the admon is granted to Herbert, the lawful brother, on 1st October 1930. This was revoked as his Will had come to light. The Will, made 15th July 1921, states that he was of Belgrave Hotel, Llandrindod Wells, a retired Lt Col ISC. The sole beneficiary was to be his wife [who predeceased him in 1924]; he appointed his brother-in-law Major John William Ainley Drummond as executor; witnessed by T H Powell, solicitor of Llandilo, Carmarthenshire and Henry Phillips of Begelly Rectory, Pembrokeshire. An affidavit was filed that he was a British subject, he made his will in Wales and that his domicile of origin was English. Will proved 21st Nov 1930.

[GrahamSimons]

...and here is the text as I couldn't fit it into my previous posting:

Now the latest discovery, from the Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle of 12th March 1881.

I quote the article in full to help put it in context: and my question is, was this march back to British India under pressure of weather or of enemy action? It certainly looks as if he was under pressure and over-reacted – indeed judging from the article I'm surprised he was only found guilty on one count, and the effects on poor Khodadad Khan were pretty dire. What were the 24th Native Infantry doing, had they had a mauling at the hands of the Afghans?

SERIOUS CHARGES AGAINST AN OFFICER -.At a general court-martial, assembled at Mooltan on January 10th. 1881, Captain John James Money-Simons, 24th Bengal N.I., was charged with conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline, in the following instances :-First,- having, when in command of a detachment on the line of march from Afghanistan to British India, on October 2nd, 1880, upon a hasty and wholly insufficient inquiry, ordered Khodadad Khan, a sepoy of the 24th Bengal  N.I., to be flogged for the alleged offence that he had neglected to obey the detachment order which prohibited any soldier from riding in a cart without permission of competent authority, whereas he, Khodadad Khan, had in fact received the permission of Hospital Assistant Mahommed Yassein Khan, of the Subordinate Medical Department, to ride on a hospital cart, because he, Khodadad Khan, was suffering from a sore heel, the said Mahommed Yassein Khan being under such conditions competent authority. Second, - With having, when in command of a detachment on the line of march from Afghanistan to British India, on October 2, 1880, administered corporal punishment to Khodadad Khan, a sepoy of the 24th Bengal N.I., illegally, that is to say, without trial. Third, with having, when in command of a detachment on the line of march from Afghanistan to British India, on October 2, 1880, administered corporal punishment to Khodadad Khan. a Sepoy of the 24th Bengal N.I. otherwise than upon the bare back in accordance with the usage of the Service, by which conduct he, Khodadad Khan, believed that a stigma was cast upon him, and that he was disgraced in the eyes of his comrades. The Court found that Captain Money-Simons was not guilty of the first instance of the charge; guilty of the second instance of the  charge; not guilty of the third instance of the charge; and guilty of the preamble of the charge as respects its application to the second instance of the same only: in and sentenced him to be reprimanded. In confirming the decision the Commander-in-Chief gives the following reasons for commuting the court-martial sentence of death on Khodadad, the sepoy concerned in Captain Money-Simons' case. for firing at a superior officer:- “In my minute on the proceedings of the  general court-martial held on Khodadad, sepoy, 24th Punjab [sic] N.I.. I stated that my reasons for commuting  the sentence to transportation for life would be published to the Army. Those reasons are contained in the proceedings of the present court-martial on Captain Money-Simons, who has been convicted of conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline, in having illegally flogged Sepoy Khodadad. Although it is not any justification, yet when I was called upon to confirm the sentence of death, I was confronted with the fact that the crime of the prisoner had its origin in the illegal act of his superior officer, Capt. Money-Simons, and I was constrained by this cause to to commute the sentence to transportation for life."

[magsb123]

I am seeking information on two brothers Robert John Nicholson b1856 St Georges East and Alfred Albert Nicholson b1859 St Georges East. The last information we have regarding them is in the 1871 census where they are with their parents Robert and Catherine Nicholson (nee Pendlebury). It is believed that they both were involved in the Anglo-Afghan war but it is not known which regiment they may have served. They both seemed to have died in Afghanistan. Do you have any information regarding Robert and Alfred? Thanks for your time.
Margaret.

[Garen]

...

Would there be any record of him at all, anywhere, relating to his being in the military/deserting in India? (He was living in Berkshire at the time he would have enrolled, although he was from Cornwall and had more recently lived in Poplar.) I should give his original name -- unfortunately not uncommon: Ernest Hill. I haven't been able to find any trace of him in military records, but that isn't my forte.

More generally, I have gathered that he was not the only soldier to say farewell rather than go to Afghanistan in 1878. A smart choice; how history does repeat itself. Do you have any knowledge, generally, about these so-called desertions? (I say so-called because in my gr-grf's case, at least as the tale is told, it was the state that broke its promise, not him.)

Any background-type info about thiis situation that you might have would be of interest - thanks!

Hello Janey

Thanks for your fascinating story!

If Ernest Hill was in the army then there should be some documentation of some kind, under either his real or assumed name. I guess as he deserted then there wouldn't be a pension record. The thing to do would be to try and discover the regiment (possibly the 66th Foot if he joined up in Berkshire - in which case he did very well to avoid service in Afghanistan and their eventual fate - Maiwand) and then check the muster rolls to see if he appears there.

I'm not sure about his 'contracted 5 years' … soldiers signed up for 12 years (after the 1870 Cardwell Reforms) - 6 in the Colours, 6 in the Reserve - with an option to extend to 21.

Desertion was not at all uncommon - I have several examples in my own (extended) family history for a variety of reasons. I can't say how common or uncommon it would have been to desert with the intention of avoiding a looming campaign, particularly the Second Afghan War, as my research really only brings me to those who were actually in the campaign.

Best - Garen

[Garen]

...and here is the text as I couldn't fit it into my previous posting:

Now the latest discovery, from the Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle of 12th March 1881.

I quote the article in full to help put it in context: and my question is, was this march back to British India under pressure of weather or of enemy action? It certainly looks as if he was under pressure and over-reacted – indeed judging from the article I'm surprised he was only found guilty on one count, and the effects on poor Khodadad Khan were pretty dire. What were the 24th Native Infantry doing, had they had a mauling at the hands of the Afghans?

Hello Graham

Thanks very much for all those details on John J H Money-Simons - I'll be delighted to add him to the database.

And what an interesting story. Money-Simons served with the Transport Dept. at Multan throughout the first campaign of the Afghan war and then with the 24th Bengal Infantry in the second, seeing fighting at Jagdalak (Dec 1879), Shekabad (Apr 1880) and Kandahar (Sep 1880).

I've been unable to find exactly when the 24th BNI left Kandahar to return to India, but I suspect it was one of the first regiments out in early Sep. The journey back would not have been an easy one, mainly due to the rough road and heat, but the local tribes were chastened by the Afghan defeat, and the 24th were not part of General Macgregor's Marri County expedition - they went straight back to Matun (whether by the Bolan route with either Baker or Macpherson, or the Harnai route with Macgregor, I'm not sure, but I'd like to find out).

So I'm not aware of anything other than a long, hot journey that added to any pressure - except, I guess, for the additional fact that they had just spent a month marching from Kabul to Kandahar, followed by a battle the day after their arrival (on 1st Sep). I'm not surprised Khodadad Khan had a sore heel!

Best - Garen

[Garen]

I am seeking information on two brothers Robert John Nicholson b1856 St Georges East and Alfred Albert Nicholson b1859 St Georges East. The last information we have regarding them is in the 1871 census where they are with their parents Robert and Catherine Nicholson (nee Pendlebury). It is believed that they both were involved in the Anglo-Afghan war but it is not known which regiment they may have served. They both seemed to have died in Afghanistan. Do you have any information regarding Robert and Alfred? Thanks for your time.
Margaret.

Hello Margaret

Without a regiment it would be quite a task to search the Afghan war medal roll for them - though actually, if you have an Ancestry account, you can now search the medal roll there (I only have a copy of the hand-written roll and my Ancestry account has lapsed).

I did a quick search of the London Gazette and the Nicholsons do not turn up as casualties there (though the search, based on OCR text recognition, may not be totally accurate) - so if they did die in Afghanistan, it may have been from illness (which did take off a large number of men, eg. cholera, heat exhaustion).

If you have any other info or sources for their part in the Afghan War or their military service, do please let me know.

Best wishes - Garen

[magsb123]

Hello Garen,
Thanks for your reply regarding Robert and Alfred Nicholson. I have found one entry for a Robert Nicholson in the Afghan Campaign and his regiment number is 2326. His medal remarks seem to say OC RA Sinbid Dv 5/1/82. Can you tell me anything further from those details? Cheers, Margaret.