Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80

[Mr.S.]

Hi Garen,checked ancestry but no real conclusions,not enough evidence.3 results-
(a)regiment no.1358 michael slattery listed as drummer.hort service and then discharged(t.e ?)
(b)87th.regiment reg.no.1775 Michael slattery,medal India,discharged.
(c)reg.no.1658,service Cos.cannot make out remark'heads inortens?'
  Thats all I have found but a Michael Slattery was in the 9th.foot during Crimean War but no details of him so do not know if related ,my Michael father's was given as Patrick.
any help ?
Denis.

[Garen]

Hi, my ancestor Joseph Chambers - Private No 1370. 85th Regiment.Enlisted 22 July 1867 Newcastle-0n-Tyne
I know he was awarded the Afghan War Medal have an old picture with him wearing it.
Served 132yrs .246 days Conduct & Character while with the colours have been very good in possesion of 3 good conduct badges. Discharge confirmed Simla 24th Feb 1881.
I would be grateful of any further info.

Hello Telligan

I'm guessing by the exact duration of service you already have his service papers, so I don't think there's much else I can offer - except that the medal roll includes the note "Discharged March 1881 - free to Australia".

The 85th got into Afghanistan in the second campaign, arriving at Kohat in mid October 1879 and going on into the Kuram Valley as part of General Tytler's brigade. They took part in the Zaimukht (or Zaimusht) expedition in Dec 1879, including the attack on Zawa on 14 Dec. Throughout the following year they were mostly employed on the lines of communication in the Kuram, and returned to India in Jan 1881.

Best wishes -
Garen

[Garen]

Hi Garen,checked ancestry but no real conclusions,not enough evidence.3 results-
(a)regiment no.1358 michael slattery listed as drummer.hort service and then discharged(t.e ?)
(b)87th.regiment reg.no.1775 Michael slattery,medal India,discharged.
(c)reg.no.1658,service Cos.cannot make out remark'heads inortens?'
  Thats all I have found but a Michael Slattery was in the 9th.foot during Crimean War but no details of him so do not know if related ,my Michael father's was given as Patrick.
any help ?
Denis.

Hello Denis - sorry I can't help any further. My limited expertise ends at the borders of Afghanistan 1878-80! Perhaps the next thing to do is to check the Muster Rolls.

All the best - Garen

[Garen]

Hi Garen and All

My Relation is a Joseph Roden from West Deeping, 6250 Bombardier Royal Artilery 6 Battery 3rd Brigade (taken from the 1881 Census), he was living with his sister-in-law, a widow. He was to receive the Campaign medal according to the Royal Artillery - Afghan 1878-1890, South Africa 1879, Egypt 1882  Page 18 of 298. He died in West Deeping of Acute Acute bronchitis 12th Apr 1881. The death cert states he was 'Royal Horse Artilleryman'.

I would to know more, such as when he joined up and locations during this campaign plus any other wars / service history. Also what some of the short hand means on the RHS column.

There are 4 records at http://www.findmypast.co.uk/army-service-records-search.action?submit=1&redef=X&birthYear=1844&birthYearTolerance=2&attestationYear=&attestationYearTolerance=2&series=ALL
but I don't have subscription to there.

Mark

Hello Mark

Thanks for posting the medal roll and Joseph's details. The unit he was in was actually C Battery 3rd Brigade - C/3 RA, not 6/3 RA (the 1881 census entry is incorrectly transcribed).

They spent the first campaign of the Afghan war stationed at Daka, just beyond the Khyber Pass, and were involved in the Kam Daka action of April 1879. They returned to India in Jun 1879. In the second campaign the battery was again in the Khyber region, in and around Jalalabad, taking part in many minor expeditions. They returned again to India in Aug 1880.

The notes on the right of the medal roll show his death date and place, and who the medal was sent to. You'll see most went to 'OC' - Officer Commanding ... then whichever battery (eg. OC 1st Bde [Brigade] Rawal Pindi). Quite a few who died (the battery lost about 23 men to cholera on their first return to India) were sent to A.G - not sure what that means, I'm afraid ... Artillery something? (Is it a G?).

None of the four WO/121 or WO/131 records on FindMyPast relate to your Joseph - probably because he died still in service. (There is also a WO/97 for a Joseph Roden, but he was born in 1882).

I would question his entitlement to the 1879 South Africa medal (unless he was in a different battery in 1879) and the Egypt 1882 medal (if he died in Apr 1881) - what is your source for these?

With best wishes -
Garen

[DISCLOSE]

Hello Garen,

So good of you to give me more info. Will you be adding Uncle Joe  to your database? Hope you can.

I would question his entitlement to the 1879 South Africa medal (unless he was in a different battery in 1879) and the Egypt 1882 medal (if he died in Apr 1881) - what is your source for these?

The source was the UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949

Name:   Joseph Roden
Campaign or Service:   Afghan
Service Date:   1878-1882
Regimental Number:   6250

and it has this root / title

Code: [Select]

Asia  > Afghanistan, Egypt, South Africa 1878-1882  > Royal Artillery - Afghan 1878-1890, South Africa 1879, Egypt 1882  >  Page   of 298

I took an image of the campaign medal with clasps, I am not sure what clasps if any he should have, can you let me know what you think?

I seems strange he joined up just for this Campaign which is why I wondered if he had joined earlier. Is there a way to find out when he enlisted to the RHA?

Now what we need is HBO / Showtime or another US TV producer to make an Drama epic with your database, and have occasional mentions of all our relatives ;-)

Thanks once again.


Apologies to rootsChat team for posting a full crown copyright image instead of a partial.

MOD COMMENT: Screen grab removed according to rootschat policy. Please see here for more info:
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[Garen]

Hello Garen,

So good of you to give me more info. Will you be adding Uncle Joe  to your database? Hope you can.

Yes, definitely - many thanks for the info you have supplied.

The source was the 
UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949

Ah, I see - sorry, that makes sense. It's the set of rolls  rather than actual medals.

I took an image of the campaign medal with clasps, I am not sure what clasps if any he should have, can you let me know what you think?

As part of C/3 RA Joseph would not have been awarded any clasps - you can see on the medal roll that none of the clasp columns are checked, and this is correct for that Battery. The action of Kam Daka (21 Apr 1879) that they had some involvement in is an interesting one - read up on Captain O' Moore Creagh who won his VC there!

I seems strange he joined up just for this Campaign which is why I wondered if he had joined earlier. Is there a way to find out when he enlisted to the RHA?

Probably the next best thing, with no service record seemingly available, would be the Muster Rolls.

All best - Garen

[Goldhain]

Hi Garen

I'm interested in finding out more about Samuel Phillips who served in this war and wonder if you could help, please.  All I have so far is a Colchester Garrison report from the Essex Standard which states that Gentleman Cadet Samuel Phillips from the Royal Military College was appointed ensign to 18th (Royal Irish?) Regiment of Foot on 21 Aug 1868.  I know that this Regiment served in the Afghan war and have picked up a Phillips, S in the UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949 being entitled to the medal (which was sent to him on 23.11.1881) for the Afghan war.  He was then a Captain.  The only other remark made is Leave Med Certificate.

Any info or pointers for me, please.  I don't even know his date or place of birth!

Thank you, Pippa

[Garen]

Hello Pippa

I've done some research into Captain Samuel Phillips ...

As you say, he was Ensign (by purchase) into the 18th Foot from cadetship at the Royal Military College in Aug 1868. He was Lieutenant in Oct 1871, Adjutant of the regiment from Aug 1873 - May 1874, Captain Jun 1880 and Major in Aug 1888. He seems to have retired not long after that.

In the Afghan War he served with his regiment on the Khyber line in 1880. They suffered a lot from heat and cholera, and this might explain his medical leave to England c.1881. He rejoined the 1st Battalion in India in Feb 1882.

In Jan 1884 he was appointed as Adjutant to the 4th North Tipperary Militia. Later in life, c.1899, he was High Sheriff of Gaile, Tipperary.

Gaile, County Tipperary, is where he was born in 1849 - and according to a public family tree on Ancestry he also died there - in 1919. He married Helen Clementina Fraser (née Gilchrist) in 1885 and they had three children: Richard, Moira and Aileen.

Samuel Phillips can be found on the 1871 census (Raglan Barracks, Devonport), the 1891 census (Leinster Gardens, Paddington) and the 1911 census (Oakley Hall, Basingstoke).

I hope this is of interest.

Best wishes -
Garen

[Goldhain]

Hi Garen

Wow, lots of info - thanks so much!

A couple of initial queries:  first, puzzled about the position as Adjutant in another regiment when he had been Captain in the 18th - isn't this a demotion?  Also, I see that he went on to become a Major in the 18th Foot, I wonder how the involvement in the second regiment worked - I presume that an officer can only be with one regiment at a time.  Any ideas as to what could have been the background here?

Many thanks again, Pippa