Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80

[Garen]

Hello Pippa

The Royal Irish Regiment had two regular battalions (1st and 2nd) and, after 1881, two Militia battalions (3rd - Wexford Regiment, and 4th - North Tipperary), so he was still with the Royal Irish.

Sometimes it is the case that an officer is seconded to another regiment while still being on the list of his main regiment - though that's not the case here.

In the 1885 Army List, Phillips is listed as a Captain under the Royal Irish (18th), with a note that he is also Adjutant of the 4th Battalion. When he was promoted Major in 1888, he was announced under the The Royal Irish Regiment - Major, and Adjutant of the 4th Battalion.

By the way - looking at the London Gazette again, I now see that he retired in Oct 1888.

I'm not an expert in the regimental system, but I hope that's made things a little clearer! :-)

Best - Garen

[Goldhain]

Thanks for clarifying this, Garen.  I'm new to things military but learning fast!  I see you have a website - I must have a look ...

Last point (promise!), I notice that one of the census entries showed Samuel Phillips living in barracks.  Does this mean that soldiers should appear on census returns in the usual way if the live in army accomodation in a garrison etc?  I am particularly interested in seeing if I can establish exactly when Samuel Phillips was living in Colchester (I picked up news of his appointment as ensign from the Colchester Garrison news in a local paper) and, particularly, whether he was there in 1875/6 and 1880/81.  Sorry, I appreciate that this is beyond your Afghan War remit but if you have any further pointers for my research, it would be appreciated. 

BW and thanks again, Pippa

[Garen]

Yes - soldiers in the UK in barracks etc. (and often on troopships too) will be reported as normal in the ten-yearly census returns.

In the 1871 census it was the Second Battalion that was at Devonport.

In 1875 and 1876 the First Battalion was at Bareilly (India); the Second Battalion was at Shorncliffe and Aldershot for summer drills in 1875, and then at Colchester - until about July 1876.

In 1880 the First Battalion marched to Peshawar and served in the Afghan War on the Khyber line, largely around Landi Kotal. They returned to Peshawar in Mar 1881 and were there at the time of the 1881 census in the UK (or had just left on their way to Rawalpindi). After various places in India they sailed for Egypt in Aug 1884 and were back in the UK in Sep 1885 (Phillips is not mentioned among the officers who served in Egypt).

I've done a bit of a more thorough search in the newspapers, and it does seem as though Samuel Philips was in Colchester c. June 1876 ... 'Lieut. Phillips, 18th Regt.' is mentioned in some cricket results for the Colchester Garrison (in another it's 'G. Phillips, 18th Regt'. - but I wonder if the G is an error). 'Mr S. Phillips, 18th (Royal Irish)' is mentioned as a guest at the Grand Calico Ball at Colchester in Oct 1875, while a 'Mr Phillips, 18th Royal Irish' is a guest at the Ball at the Town Hall, Colchester in Jul 1876. So it does look as though he spent that time in Colchester.

I also see that a 'Lieut. Phillips, 18th Foot' embarked at Portsmouth on the Euphrates for India on 13 Dec 1878.

All this would suggest that he started out with the Second Battalion, and perhaps joined the First Battalion in India in 1878.

Happy to help! I learn stuff too :-)

Best - G

[Gen List Lass]

I have just found an Ancestry.com entry for medal(s) + clasp awarded in Misc Campaigns 1877/8/9.

Looking at a time line of British campaigns this seems to coincide with the 2nd Anglo Afghan War. Would I be correct?

It said that the medals had been returned, would I be able to find more about the circumstances? I have the name, regiment and Army number of the individual, he was in the 90th Foot Regiment.

Gen in NBL England

[Garen]

Hello Gen

Thanks for your message.

From what you've said it is far more likely that you're looking at a recipient of the South Africa medal with a clasp denoting participation in one or more of the campaigns within that locale and period - Galeka, Northern Border, Sekukuni, Moirosi and/or (most famously) the Anglo-Zulu War.

There should be more detail on the medal roll itself.

With best wishes - Garen

[Linjoa]

Helping a neighbour with a chap who has been very hard to find infomation on.
William BARBER (born either 1855 Whitechapel MDX or 1857 GLOUCESTERSHIRE Not Known)
received the Afghan medal as per the following newspaper article in 1933 . . . . . . Mr. W. Barber who was 77 spent a considerable part of his life in the army and served full time as a drummer to the Prince of Wales own West Yorkshire regiment.  He was one of the few holders of the Afghan medal . . .  . .
From Ancestry's UK Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls 1793-1949 I believe the following is him . . .2nd Battallion, 14th Regiment of Foot, PWO Yorkshire Regiment No 2/14 2494, William Barber, Drummer.  I have been unable to find out anything further on William and hope someone could suggest a place to look . . ?

Thanks, Linda

[Gen List Lass]

Thank you Garen. Medal Roll - N.A. or Imperial War Museum?

Gen in NBL England

Hello Gen

Thanks for your message.

From what you've said it is far more likely that you're looking at a recipient of the South Africa medal with a clasp denoting participation in one or more of the campaigns within that locale and period - Galeka, Northern Border, Sekukuni, Moirosi and/or (most famously) the Anglo-Zulu War.

There should be more detail on the medal roll itself.

With best wishes - Garen

[Garen]

Helping a neighbour with a chap who has been very hard to find infomation on.
William BARBER (born either 1855 Whitechapel MDX or 1857 GLOUCESTERSHIRE Not Known)
received the Afghan medal as per the following newspaper article in 1933 . . . . . . Mr. W. Barber who was 77 spent a considerable part of his life in the army and served full time as a drummer to the Prince of Wales own West Yorkshire regiment.  He was one of the few holders of the Afghan medal . . .  . .
From Ancestry's UK Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls 1793-1949 I believe the following is him . . .2nd Battallion, 14th Regiment of Foot, PWO Yorkshire Regiment No 2/14 2494, William Barber, Drummer.  I have been unable to find out anything further on William and hope someone could suggest a place to look . . ?

Thanks, Linda

Hello Linda

Have a look on Find My Past to see if there is a service record (WO97) for 2494 William Barber. I did see there is a WO121 discharge paper, which doesn't contain a lot of information, but gives a discharge date of Feb 1883.

If he joined for 12 years short service (which came in in 1870), then that would have been 1871, the year of the census. If William was with the 2/14th Foot (PWO West Yorks.) from enlistment, then they were in England at that time - in Sheffield (he'd have been young, but if a drummer - possible).

For the 1881 census period, the 2/14th were still in India (Nowshera).

I don't know if the obituary notice you have mentions a wife or children - but maybe look for them instead.

Apart from that - all the usual - birth, marr, death, census, etc etc ...

Best wishes -
Garen

[Garen]

Thank you Garen. Medal Roll - N.A. or Imperial War Museum?

Gen in NBL England

Hello Gen - I mean the medal roll you looked at on Ancestry. Although the database category is Misc Campaigns 1877/8/9 the actual roll should say what the campaign was and it should also say what the clasp is for.

Best - Garen