Thomas & Harriet Simmons (nee Pilbeam)

[kerryb]

Sheila

In answer to your last question, can't find a James at Borzell Farm in 1861 or 1871.  There is a James who was born in Penhurst in 1819 who in 1861 and 1871 is living at Wartling with a brother Joseph born 1821 and his father, Thomas born 1787 and mother Ann born 1786. 
There are various grandchildren and it looks like James's wife, Emma born Battle 1826.

I think but am yet to prove that these are parents and siblings of my Sarah also born in Penhurst. 

If you would like more details let me know.

KerryB

[speedy]

Hi Kerry

I did email the photographs but got conflicting messages as to whether they were sent.  Unfortunately they are too large to attach here, perhaps you will let me know whether you have received them.
I thought James' wife was an Eliza, though she was born in Battle, I believe the children were named after there parents, Eliza and James.  I visited Penhurst, it is so tiny I cannot believe there would have been more than one James Simmons living there.
Going back to Harriets parents George Pilbeam and Ann Weston, do you know whether Ann was married to George?  Its odd that she is always referred to as a Weston and not a Pilbeam.

regards
Sheila

[kerryb]

Hi Sheila

Haven't received the photos yet. 

Interesting what you say about you think James's wife is Eliza because on the census return there is also an Eliza born 1830 in Herstmonceux.  I assumed she was married to Joseph, the sibling because she comes after him.  But never assume anything.  So this could be Janes' wife and Emma married to Joseph. 

However on the 1871 census return, James is a widower? and Joseph and Elizabeth are still there.

Your right about the size of Penhurst, blink and you miss it.  I haven't been to the church there but some years ago a friend and I parked there to do a long circular walk and we had tea in the churchyard.  Years before my FH interest.

I have a date for George and Anne's marriage 21 Nov 1807 at Burwash.  This information is on the document I received from Nardia in Australia.  Her information came from the lady carrying out the One Name Study for Pilbeam.  Incidentally Anne died in 1840 and George married again to a Phoebe Skinner.

regards

kerry

[kerryb]

Hi Sheila

Visited Penhurst where there are no Simmons buried and Wartling today.  At Wartling several Simmons including:
Thomas Simmons buried 1871, aged 85
Ann Simmons 77 years, couldn't read date but possibly wife of Thomas.

Emma wife of James Simmons, died May 1866 40 years
James Isaac Simmons died 4 Jan 1900 aged 61 years

John Thomas Simmons died 10.4.1903
Mary Ann Simmons died 11.11.1912 aged 71 years

Charles Simmons died 27.10.1909 81 years
Susannah wife of Charles died 15.01.1907 aged 72 years

Fanny Simmons died 27.01.1927 aged 85 years

Joseph Thomas Simmons died 6.11.1933? (a bit unreadable) aged 69
wife Emily Sarah died 5.11.1936 aged 70
Anna Jane died Jan 1976 aged 72

Joseph Simmons died 27.02.1890 aged 69 years
wife Elizabeth died 21.05.1914 aged 85 years

Louisa Simmons died 3.4.1883 aged 27 years

I don't know whether any of these are the Simmons that we are both searching for and I hope it doesn't confuse matters.  Some of the names ie James and Emma and Joseph and Elizabeth and Thomas and Ann fit with the 1861/1871 census returns for Wartling.

best wishes

Kerry

[speedy]

Hi Kerry,

You have been busy!

I have just checked Ancestry.co 1881 census and my thoughts are that we could possibly eliminate Charles, Susannah and Fanny.  They seemed to have run the local ale house "Horseshoe Inn".  I wonder if it is still there!

Not too sure about James and Emma, I think James Isaac is too young our James is abt 1818

I would hope and like to think that Ann and Thomas, Joseph and Elizabeth are family members.

On the 1881 census Joseph and Elizabeth lived at Cowden Farm, Wartling were they and the parents at that farm in 1861 or 1871.

Food for thought

Best Wishes

Sheila

[kerryb]

Hi Sheila

Presumably the Horseshoe Inn is now the Lamb Inn next to the church at Wartling.  Well worth a visit if you are ever there, the food is yummy!

I have just looked at 1861 and 1871 and yes it was Cowden Farm, Wartling. 

So now we just need to prove that our Simmons from Penhurst are the Simmons at Wartling.  Hmmm

Kerry

[kerryb]

Hi Speedy

I am noqw going to put a couple of spanners in the works!

Less convinced that Wartling Simmons are anything to do with Thomas and Harriet mianly because children James and Eliza have at Boarzell in 1851 are not mentioned on the census returns I found for James and Emma at Wartling.

Also have just found on my brand new 1851 census CD for Ticehurst and Etchingham area.

Sylvester Simmons age 32  Da Dressmaker living at Hurst Green (born Etchingham) with Richard Simmons age 63 Carpenter (born Brightling) and Betsy wi age 66 (born Salehurst). 
Also grandson, presumably son of Sylvester, James age 4 born Etchingham, Scholar. 

Sorry

Kerryb

[kerryb]

Sheila

Just to let you know that on Family History Online this weekend I have found:

Thomas and Ann Simmons, Penhurst, children:
Harriet born 1809
Sophia born 1812
Sarah (my ancestor) born 1814
James bapt 1818
Joseph bapt 1820

Sylvester, as I suspected was bapt 1818, daughter of Richard and Betsy from Etchingham
Frances also bapt 1818 was daughter of William and Mary of Ashburnham. 

I suspect that William and Richard are brother's of Thomas.  On IGI I found possible parents for Thomas being Richard and Lucy.

So far I have not managed to find your Thomas but will continue to search.

Kerry

[kerryb]

Scrub what I said about Sylvestor and Frances - have just found them:

Sivestor bapt 02/03/1823 daug of Thomas and Ann,  at Chilshurst, Herstmonceux.  Obviously working their way towards Wartling.

Frances bapt 29/08/1824, daug of Thomas and Ann, again at Chilshurst, Herstmonceux. 

Again no sign of Thomas.

Kerryb