Author Topic: Marriages wanted  (Read 3497 times)

Offline Jeans Girl

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Marriages wanted
« on: Wednesday 07 September 05 09:06 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Is there someone out there who can do some look ups for me please.

I am trying to find marriages if at all possible for my Andersons ????
Parents  ALEXANDER ANDERSON & HELEN RAMSAY

Margaret  born 1833
Janet  born 1834
Thomas  born 1836
Mary  born 1840
John  Born 1842
Helen born 1846
Alexander  born 1851
Andrew born 1852 Married Elizabeth Woodhead 1876 in Airdrie.

Andrew I have been able to follow thru. But the others despite spending large sums on scotlands people I have drawn a blank.

John was a witness to his mothers death 18th March 1868 in Bathgate. John was shown as living in SHOTTS.

They were all born in Bathgate.I have them on the 1841, census and 1851 census but in the 61 census there street was not done so again drew a blank.

The father Alexander, I have not been able to locate his death either he was deceased by 1868 as Helen was a widow.

I have hit a brick wall with this one and would like some help to break it down.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks
Margaret.

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Offline JAP

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Re: Marriages wanted
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 07 September 05 12:49 BST (UK) »
Hi Margaret,

I guess one problem is that, at this stage, you know with certainty of only three members of the family who definitely even survived into the days of statutory registration - Helen herself who died in 1868, her son John who was the informant of her death, and her son Andrew whom you know all about.

So you might be searching for people who died before 1855 i.e. before statutory registration, and/or for marriages which took place pre-1855 and so which might well not have been recorded.

And ANDERSON is a very common name ...

Incidentally, I see that the family is on FreeCEN in 1841 but Alexander is not with them - do you have him in 1841?  And Janet is listed as Jane in 1841.

Do you have Andrew on the 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses?  Just in case a sibling or relative was with him.

Was John's full address on Helen's death certificate?  If so, or even if only Shotts, have you searched for him in the 1871 census - John ANDERSON, appropriate age, born Bathgate, living in Shotts (a wider search would probably bring up too many people) just in case he was still there?

Good luck,

JAP

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Offline Jeans Girl

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Re: Marriages wanted
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 07 September 05 22:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Jap,
Many thanks for your reply.

Alexander Anderson was a slater & plasterer. I have an Alexander as a Lodger in the 41 census.

He is with the family in 51 along with all of the others. As I said I havn`t been able to trace them in 61 as we have discovered that the street was not recorded.

I have Andrew in all of the other census  in 71 he was with a family in Robertson St Bathgate .All the other census he was in Airdrie.
Andrew is my Great Grandfather and I would dearly love to trace his other siblings.

Not being able to get Alexanders death either means that i can not go back further. I have one possibility for his parents as  Thomas Anderson and Gean Cochran but have not been able to prove it .
Helen Ramsay I can go back further as I have her death cert.
Many thanks
Margaret.

Offline JAP

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Re: Marriages wanted
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 08 September 05 04:52 BST (UK) »
Hi again Margaret,

Yes, I had looked at your other post on this family with the details of the 1851 census.
Just curious about Alexander not being with the family in 1841 (which I had looked up on FreeCEN) and had wondered whether you had found him, and whether his whereabouts might have given any clues to his family.

This family is a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack :'(  I'll try to clarify my own thinking.
Problems include:
(a) apparently Helen (and thus any family members who might have been with her) does not appear in the 1861 census - a major problem
(b) surname and given names are both common (which makes using SP very expensive)
(c) you might be searching for records which don't exist - another major problem
     (i) the only people whom you know for sure survived into the time of statutory registration (which started in 1855) are mother Helen and sons John and Andrew
     (ii) pre-1855 you are relying on church records and this family doesn't seem to show up (perhaps they attended a church the records of which did not survive, or have survived but have not been indexed) - if they died pre-1855 there will be no record on SP, and if any married pre-1855, there are quite likely to be no records to be found in the IGI or on SP.

Going through the family, here is what I was thinking:
*Husband Alexander ANDERSON, b ca 1807 (from 1851 cen) in Bathgate
He could have died at any time between ca 1852 (when Andrew arrived and 1868 (when Helen died as a widow).  Of course, if he died before 1855, there will be no record of him on SP to be found - let's hope he did not, and that you eventually find him.

*Wife Helen ANDERSON, b ca 1810 (from 1851) Bathgate
Died, a widow, in 1868.  Parents listed as Thomas RAMSAY and Margaret MASTERSON.  Her birth in Bathgate in 1807 found on the IGI (but I can't see her parents' marriage or births of other children to them).   Where was she living when she died?  Might be worth trying the 1871 census to see who is living at the address where she was living when she died in 1868?

*Daur Margaret ANDERSON, b ca 1831 (from 1841 census) WLN
Not with the family in 1851.  Might have died (there will be no record) or might be working away from home.  Or she might have married (and if she married pre-1855, there may well  be no record).  If she survived, she might be almost anywhere in 1861.

*Daur Janet ANDERSON, b ca 1834 (from 1841 and 1851) Bathgate
She was recorded as Jane in the 1841 census - so might be known under all sorts of names such as Janet, Jane, Jean, Jeannie, Jessie.
If she survived, she might well have married pre-1855 (so there may well be no record).  And might be anywhere by 1861 and later.

*Son Thomas ANDERSON, b ca 1836 (from 1841 and 1851) Bathgate
If he survived, he could be almost anywhere in 1861 and later.

*Son James ANDERSON, b ca 1838 (from 1841) WLN
Not with the family in the 1851 census.  Probably did not survive (there will be no record) - or he might, at age 13, be away working somewhere though this seems unlikely given that Thomas is still at home.

*Daur Mary ANDERSON, b ca 1840 (from 1841 and 1851) Bathgate
If she survived, she might be married and almost anywhere by 1861 and later.

*Son John ANDERSON, b ca 1842 (from 1851) Bathgate
You definitely know he survived as he was the informant on his mother's death cert in 1868 and was living in Shotts.  Might be worth trying to find him in 1871?  Though it's a very common name.

*Daur Helen ANDERSON, b ca 1846 (from 1851) Bathgate
If she survived, she might still have been with Helen in 1861 - but subsequently (married or not) could be anywhere.

*Son Alexander ANDERSON, b 1851 (from 1851) Bathgate
If he survived, would probably still have been with Helen in 1861 - but subsequently could be anywhere.

Son Andrew ANDERSON, b ca 1852 presumably in Bathgate
You know about Andrew.  Would probably still have been with Helen in 1861.  Any clues in the family with whom he was lodging in 1871?

*Possible further children?
Not known though unlikely given's Helen's age.  Given the 1807 birth record of Helen, she would have been about 45 when Andrew arrived - quite late for those days.

Returning to the father, Alexander ANDERSON.
Given Scottish naming patterns one might expect his parents to be Thomas and Janet/Jane (or, of course, Margaret which - as the name of Helen's mother - had already been used for the first daughter).
It is interesting that, in 1841, the following family (all born in West Lothian) is living right next door to Helen and the children:
Thomas ANDERSON 60 Cotton Hand Loom Weaver
Jean ANDERSON 60
Thomas ANDERSON 20 Wright
Jean ANDERSON 20
Possibly Alexander's parents and siblings?
 
The only match in the IGI, as you say, is Alexander bap 17 Jul 1804 Bathgate, parents Thomas ANDERSON and Jean COCHRAN - but, of course, Alexander might well not have been christened.
Extracted entries in the IGI for baptisms of children to Thomas ANDERSON and Jean COCHRAN don't help - James 1800, Christian 1802, Alexander 1804, Andrew 1807, Marrion 1810, Elisabeth 1813 i.e. no sign of a later Thomas and Jean.

It seems you will need a lot of luck - or a lottery win so you can look at the certificate for every Alexander ANDERSON death on SP :o

Very best of luck,

JAP

Offline Jeans Girl

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Re: Marriages wanted
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 08 September 05 10:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Jap,

Thank you for your response and the effort you have gone to.

I think it is my Alexander in the 41 census on FreeCen as being  with a Craig family age 40 as a lodger the only one that fitted the age and being outside the census county

Helen Anderson died at Marsh st Bathgate 1868  John the witness is shown as being at Heartshill Shotts
I havnt been able to find him there in 71 or 81 census.

Helen was born 21st April 1807 parents Thomas Ramsay Margaret Masterton born in fornification Uphall Inn as written in Parish register maybe they didnt marry ??? 

In the 51 census the family was living at Kame Head Bathgate

Margaret is the only one registered in 1833 in Stirling.
The rest I have worked out aprox ages from the Census.

Have checked Andrews Marriage cert for witness but it is Thomas Reid and dosnt ring any bells .

In 71 census Andrew is bording with Thomas Conely & Mrs Conely Robertson Square Bathgate it looks as if it is a bording house.

As you say I need a lot of luck if only family had talked I would have had more clues.

The only thing i really have to go on is the tradition of family names all being handed down thru the line. I presume they were the same going back.

Andrew & Elizabeths family were
Walter   after Elizabeths father
Elizabeth 
Mary
Alexander 
James
Thomas   
Margaret
Robert
Ann

Many Many Thanks for your help
Margaret.

Offline JAP

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Re: Marriages wanted
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 08 September 05 15:13 BST (UK) »
Dear Margaret,

You've certainly done a lot of work!

Obvious question is where did you find Alexander in 1841 and with whom ...

Yes, I had noticed on the IGI Margaret ANDERSON, daughter of an Alexander ANDERSON and a Helen RAMSAY (neither of which is an uncommon name), b 21 Sep 1833 in Stirling.  But this is an LDS submission (and they always have to be treated with care).  And the age and birthplace are not quite right for the 1851 WLN census where your Margaret ANDERSON is recorded as aged 10 (not ca 7 which should have been the Stirling Margaret's age given that the census was taken on 30 Mar) and born WLN (not outside the county).

Andrew doesn't seem to have followed Scottish naming traditions - if he had, his first son would have been Alexander (after his father) and his second daughter would have been Helen (after his mother) ...

My PM suggestion holds - let me know by PM if you want me to elaborate on that.

Very best regards,

Judy

Offline audrey

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Re: Marriages wanted
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 08 September 05 15:29 BST (UK) »
I have had a look on BVRI for this marriage a lot are in complete posted this to give you an idea of what I mean

ANDERSON  Alexander         
   Wife   Helen       
   Marriage Date   9 Jul 1865   Recorded in   Craig Angus  Scotland

audrey

Offline Jeans Girl

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Re: Marriages wanted
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 08 September 05 23:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Audrey ,

Many thanks for taking the time to look for me it looks like my brick wall is here to stay for a while .

I will keep looking though.

Regards
Margaret.