Author Topic: 1891 London, Southwark for Howes  (Read 1045 times)

Offline GillJones

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1891 London, Southwark for Howes
« on: Sunday 15 August 04 18:53 BST (UK) »
 :) I know this is a big favour to ask, but can anyone find the following family, possibly either in St.Saviour or St.George, Southwark in 1891?

Ernest Edward Howes,   Age 22,  Head,  Born Southwark
Mary Ann Howes,            Age 21,  Wife,   Born Southwark
Arthur Howes,           Age 2 or 3,   Son,   Born Southwark
There may also be a Johannah with them approx. 1 year old.

It is possible that the family may have separated for a while, so they could be at separate addresses!! I said it was a big favour!!
They were living in St.Saviour in 1888 when Arthur was born and St.George in 1901.

I would be very grateful for any help.
Gill
 :)
Family 1:
MONKS; HOLBROOK; SHEPPARD; WINSTONE - Mangotsfield in Glos
MONKS; HOWES; BRAY; CROWLEY - Southwark
HOWES - Kent
CROWLEY - Ireland
PROBIN - Tottenham & Lambeth; Birmingham
WING/WHING - Wroxton & Over Worton in Oxon
ARTHUR - Islington; Yorkshire; St.Hilary & Crowan in Cornwall
BOLITHO - Morvah in Cornwall

Family 2:
EARDLEY; PENNILL - Manchester
LAWLER - Manchester & Ireland
JONES; WILKES - Wolverhampton
BRAGG - Kenilworth in Warwickshire
JONES - Gorton in Manchester

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Offline peterbennett

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Re: 1891 London, Southwark for Howes
« Reply #1 on: Monday 16 August 04 18:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Gill

          Here is a complete list of Howes either born or living in Southwark, I have checked them with yours and there are no matches. If you want full details of any please ask.

Name Age in 1891 Birthplace Relationship to head-of-house Civil parish County View
Census?
 
Howes, Ada Sophia 27 Southwark, Surrey Servant  St Pancras  London   
Howes, Arthur 20 London Head  Bermondsey  London   
Howes, Charles E 30 Southwark, London Head  St George the Martyr  London   
Howes, Edward 24 Southwark, London Son  St Saviours  London   
Howes, Edwin Thos 35 Southwark, London Head  Newington St Mary  London   
Howes, Emma 57 Southwark, London Wife  St Saviours  London   
Howes, Ernest 24 Southwark, London Head  Bethnal Green  London   
Howes, Florence 9 Southwark, London Daughter  St Saviours  London   
Howes, George 42 Southwark, London Head  Hackney  London   
Howes, George 38 Horsleydown, London Boarder  Horsleydown  London   
Howes, Henry A 35 Southwark, London Son  Bermondsey  London   
Howes, John 27 Southwark, London Head  Camberwell  London   
Howes, Joseph 16 Southwark, London Boarder  Lambeth  London   
Howes, Louis 2 Southwark, London Son  Camberwell  London   
Howes, Mary A 18 Southwark, Surrey Daughter  Camberwell  London   
Howes, Richard 19 Southwark, London Son  St Saviours  London   
Howes, Sarah 33 Southwark, London Wife  Newington St Mary  London   
Howes, Sophia 20 Bermondsey, London Wife  Bermondsey  London   
Howes, Thomas 73 Southwark, Surrey Head  Islington  London   
Howes, William 10 Southwark, London    Newington St Mary  London

regards

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline GillJones

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Re: 1891 London, Southwark for Howes
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 17 August 04 16:36 BST (UK) »
 :) Thanks for the info.

I think that I might have to accept that maybe they're not on the 1891 Census, or not listed as Howes.
I can't imagine that they would have moved far outside the area as all their children were born in Southwark.

The person I am trying to find in all this is Johannah (Howes). She was my grandmother and until her marriage in 1912 it's like she never existed!! I cannot find her birth, supposedly 24 Jul 1890, cannot find the family in 1891 Census and she is not listed with the family in 1901 Census!! I know that I definitely have the right family.
Johannah (my grandmother) once told her daughter (who is still living) that she was born before Mary Ann (Bray) married Ernest Edward Howes, but that Ernest brought her up as his own and she took his surname. I searched for her birth under Bray as well as Howes, looking many years either side of 1890, but found nothing. I then discovered that Mary Ann Bray married Ernest Edward Howes in 1888, 2 years before Johannah was supposedly born!!

Any ideas?!!
Maybe I should post another topic with the above information?
Gill.
 :)

 

Family 1:
MONKS; HOLBROOK; SHEPPARD; WINSTONE - Mangotsfield in Glos
MONKS; HOWES; BRAY; CROWLEY - Southwark
HOWES - Kent
CROWLEY - Ireland
PROBIN - Tottenham & Lambeth; Birmingham
WING/WHING - Wroxton & Over Worton in Oxon
ARTHUR - Islington; Yorkshire; St.Hilary & Crowan in Cornwall
BOLITHO - Morvah in Cornwall

Family 2:
EARDLEY; PENNILL - Manchester
LAWLER - Manchester & Ireland
JONES; WILKES - Wolverhampton
BRAGG - Kenilworth in Warwickshire
JONES - Gorton in Manchester

Offline peterbennett

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Re: 1891 London, Southwark for Howes
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 18 August 04 10:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Gill
         There are 397 Johannah's either born or living in London
on the 1891 census, I checked all the ones under 3 years old and none have a mother Mary Ann. Have you found this Mary Ann Bray in the 1881 census ? If so can you post the results, it may help in the search if we know her parents.
Please continue with this thread.

regards

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline GillJones

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Re: 1891 London, Southwark for Howes
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 18 August 04 21:50 BST (UK) »
 :) Here goes...

Bray - 1881 Census - 67 Orange St., St.Saviour

James Bray           Head    34    Iron Founder
Johannah Bray      Wife     36    (entered as Juanna?, but Johannah in 1871, 1891 & 1901)
James Bray            Son      13
MARY A. BRAY         Dau      11
Maggie Bray           Dau       9
Katey Bray             Dau       6

I presumed my grandmother Johannah was named after Mary Ann's mother.
In 1871 the family were living in St.George.
In 1891 the family, minus Mary Ann, were living at Bangor Court, St.George.
I did wonder if Johannah was born sometime between 1881 and 1888 before Mary Ann married Ernest Edward Howes, but I've never found anything.


Howes - 1881 Census - 13 Castle St., St.George

George Arthur Howes    Head   44   Carman     (family listed as Howse)
Louisa Howes                Wife     39
Henry Howes                 Son      16   Carman
ERNEST E. HOWES         Son      12
Frank C. Howes             Son        9
Maud L. Howes              Dau       6
Archibald J. Howes         Son       3
Thomas Howes              Son       9m

In 1871 the family were living in William St., St.George.
In 1891 the family, minus Ernest Edward, were still living at 13 Castle St., St.George.


In 1901, Ernest Edward Howes & Mary Ann were living at Camelot St., St.George with their children, except Johannah.
I have also found James & Johannah Bray and George Arthur & Louisa Howes on the 1901 Census, all still living in Southwark. Johannah (my grandmother) is not with them either.

Thanks for taking the time to try and solve this mystery!
Gill.
 :)
Family 1:
MONKS; HOLBROOK; SHEPPARD; WINSTONE - Mangotsfield in Glos
MONKS; HOWES; BRAY; CROWLEY - Southwark
HOWES - Kent
CROWLEY - Ireland
PROBIN - Tottenham & Lambeth; Birmingham
WING/WHING - Wroxton & Over Worton in Oxon
ARTHUR - Islington; Yorkshire; St.Hilary & Crowan in Cornwall
BOLITHO - Morvah in Cornwall

Family 2:
EARDLEY; PENNILL - Manchester
LAWLER - Manchester & Ireland
JONES; WILKES - Wolverhampton
BRAGG - Kenilworth in Warwickshire
JONES - Gorton in Manchester

Offline peterbennett

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Re: 1891 London, Southwark for Howes
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 19 August 04 10:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Gill
           Having searched again this morning I have come to the conclusion that they have been missed of the census or some pages have been lost or damaged. It may be an idea to check the original books at the GRO if its at all possible.

stumped !!

peterbennett



All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline GillJones

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Re: 1891 London, Southwark for Howes
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 19 August 04 12:48 BST (UK) »
 :) Thanks for trying!!

I'm not sure if I've got this right, but I think the Ancestry 1891 Census name index is taken from S&N's The Genealogist name indexing project. If so, the London index has not been completed yet, in which case some of Southwark (and other areas) may still be missing on Ancestry.

Gill.
 :)
Family 1:
MONKS; HOLBROOK; SHEPPARD; WINSTONE - Mangotsfield in Glos
MONKS; HOWES; BRAY; CROWLEY - Southwark
HOWES - Kent
CROWLEY - Ireland
PROBIN - Tottenham & Lambeth; Birmingham
WING/WHING - Wroxton & Over Worton in Oxon
ARTHUR - Islington; Yorkshire; St.Hilary & Crowan in Cornwall
BOLITHO - Morvah in Cornwall

Family 2:
EARDLEY; PENNILL - Manchester
LAWLER - Manchester & Ireland
JONES; WILKES - Wolverhampton
BRAGG - Kenilworth in Warwickshire
JONES - Gorton in Manchester