Author Topic: woollright  (Read 10747 times)

Offline Dave Male

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Re: woollright
« Reply #9 on: Friday 30 December 05 15:06 GMT (UK) »
Hello Trish

It's been nearly a couple of years since you started out on the Woollright trail. In case it's any help, I have just come across a link with my own family.

My '1st Cousin 3 times removed' was Sarah Elizabeth Male, and she married Harold Woollright. As others have found, searching the censuses is a little difficult with so many different interpretations (have just found a Woolbright instead).

What I have found is that Harold was obviously a clever chappie, entering Trinity College, Cambridge in the Christmas of 1882. It looks as though he had an elder brother John - Harold born c1863 and John c1861 - both in Liverpool, and both had private tuition as scholars.

I also have a copy of the will left by Sarah's father in which Harold Woollright is mentioned as the husband of Sarah.

What I would dearly like to find is Harold and John's parents - with them both being born after the 1861 census, and then being away at school in the 1871, I haven't been able to find out who they are yet.

If there is anything in this that helps you at all, or you find that you might have some information for me, I'd be pleased to hear from you.

Kind Regards - Dave
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Names: Brown; Robson; Davis; Male; Dowman; Harber; Tyler; Peirce; Schramm; Jarrett; McCarthy; Cox; King; Olley; Pease; Aked; Wharton; Stanley; Rudland; Grigsby; Such<br />Areas: Essex;East London; Birkenhead; Staffordshire; Shropshire; West Yorkshire; Cambridgeshire; Norfolk; Newcastle; Kent

Offline Arranroots

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Re: woollright
« Reply #10 on: Friday 30 December 05 16:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi Dave

Presumably you have seen that both Harold's birth and marriage references are available on freebmd?

born Mar Q 1863 Liverpool 8b 199

Marr Jun q 1891 Birkenhead 8a 747  (to Sarah Elizabeth MALE as you say)

Either of these certs would give you info on his parents.

kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk <br /><br />~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br />SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN<br />HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD<br />GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS<br />WIL: WEBB, SALTER<br />RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS<br />GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY<br />MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD<br />SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON<br />IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)

Offline Dave Male

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Re: woollright
« Reply #11 on: Friday 30 December 05 17:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi Arranroots

Yes, thanks for these, I had seen them (I actually transcribe for FreeBMD).

I have to draw the line somewhere on coughing up £7, and as Harold married a cousin, it's not a priority at this stage, especially if I can find the parents by another means. My wife is already eyeing quizzically the monthly bank statements, and the £7.00 to the GRO is sticking out like a sore thumb!

Thanks for the thoughts though. HAPPY NEW YEAR

Kind Regards - Dave
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Names: Brown; Robson; Davis; Male; Dowman; Harber; Tyler; Peirce; Schramm; Jarrett; McCarthy; Cox; King; Olley; Pease; Aked; Wharton; Stanley; Rudland; Grigsby; Such<br />Areas: Essex;East London; Birkenhead; Staffordshire; Shropshire; West Yorkshire; Cambridgeshire; Norfolk; Newcastle; Kent


Offline Arranroots

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Re: woollright
« Reply #12 on: Friday 30 December 05 17:10 GMT (UK) »
There is only one WOOLRIGHT family in Liverpool in 1861 - John & Mary.  They appear to be newly wed, he is a draper and they have servants.  Looks promising?

Let me know if you need details.

;)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk <br /><br />~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br />SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN<br />HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD<br />GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS<br />WIL: WEBB, SALTER<br />RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS<br />GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY<br />MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD<br />SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON<br />IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)

Offline Dave Male

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Re: woollright
« Reply #13 on: Friday 30 December 05 18:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi Arran

Thanks for pointing that out to me - I've had a look on Ancestry.com and found them. The only worry I have about assuming them to be the parents, is the surname of Woolwright - I know this could have been written incorrectly in the first instance (I was also an enumerator in the 2001 Census - what a bore!), but the name is correctly spelt (and looks very odd) with a double 'l' i.e. it should be Woollright.

I also wonder if a draper could afford to send two sons to a private tutor (as opposed to a school), which is where they are in 1871 - Harold going on to Cambridge and The Bar.

It's all possible of course, and you could be right in saying that the only way to sort it out is to purchase the birth certificates which show in FreeBMD. I wonder if the originator of all this has done that already?

I'll take a look at John Woolwright in 1851 to see if he has been transcribed differently, and if there is any sign of 'wealth' or high intelligence in the family!!

Thanks for you interest. Kind Regards - Dave
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Names: Brown; Robson; Davis; Male; Dowman; Harber; Tyler; Peirce; Schramm; Jarrett; McCarthy; Cox; King; Olley; Pease; Aked; Wharton; Stanley; Rudland; Grigsby; Such<br />Areas: Essex;East London; Birkenhead; Staffordshire; Shropshire; West Yorkshire; Cambridgeshire; Norfolk; Newcastle; Kent

Offline JAP

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Re: woollright
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 31 December 05 03:03 GMT (UK) »
Some people in Lancashire who have on occasion been transcribed as WOOLBRIGHT in censuses show up in the actual images as WOOLLRIGHT.

For instance:

1851
H107/2187 Toxteth Park
In the household of unmarried 36yo Chemist & Druggist, Horace Sepmair(?) ALPASS (b Gloucestershire Berkeley, is his 70 mother Hester, and his 35 yo widowed sister (also b Berkeley) Hester Sophia WOOLLRIGHT.

1861
RG9/2686 Liverpool
WOOLLRIGHT Henry, Head, Mar, 69, Draper (Master) b Gloucestershire Berkley
Do Mary, Wife, Mar, 62 b London, St Pancras
and two servants

1901
RG13/3442 Toxteth Park
WOOLLRIGHT Eliza B, Head, Widow, 55, Living on Own Means, b Lancashire Liverpool
Do Norman, Son, Single, 26, Corn Miller, b do do
Do Percy, Son, Single, 21, Electrical Engineer, b do do
Plus 2 WOOLLRIGHT granddaughters, a Visitor, and 2 servants.


So the family of John and Eliza B, parents of Ernest b Liverpool ca 1877, appears in censuses under a variety of spellings.

This does seem to be the family which Trish is looking for.

*1881 (from FamilySearch) - WOOLLWRIGHT (in Liverpool, John a Draper, and little Ernest is aged 4)
*1891 (from image) - WOOLRIGHT (in Toxteth Park; Eliza B now widowed and living on her own means; Eveline, Norman, Ernest now 14, and Percy still living at home; also there is Eliza's father Samuel WAKEHAM, a WOOLWRIGHT visitor, and 3 servants).
*1901 (from image) - WOOLLRIGHT (in Toxteth Park; Norman and Percy still at home but no sign of Ernest which would fit with Ernest's departure for NZ in 1897)

Also, John, husband of Eliza B, seems to be the same John that Arranroots found, married to Mary L/S, in 1861 - possible parents of John and Harold.
*1861 - WOOLWRIGHT John, Head, Mar, 23, a Draper born Kent Canterbury
With wife Mary L (or S?), 24, and a Cook and a Housemaid
*1871 - WOOLRIGHT John, Head, Widower, 33(?), a Draper born Canterbury Kent(?)
Plus 2 servants
(Incidentally, one would have great trouble seeing the age as 33 and the county as Kent unless one knew what one was expecting to find).
*1881 - WOOLLWRIGHT John, Head, Mar 43, a Silk Mercer Merchant, born Canterbury
With wife Eliza B, 4 children aged from 7 down to 1, and 5 servants - a Cook, a Waitress, a Nurse, an Under Nurse, and a Housemaid
*1891 and 1901 - Eliza B is widowed and is living on her own means as WOOLRIGHT in 1891 and WOOLLRIGHT in 1901.

From the census returns, it certainly seems that John was not short of a penny.  The spelling of the surname is so variable as to be irrelevant.  John's financial situation seems sufficient to have supported Harold and John (assuming that Harold and John were children of John and Mary) in their education.  And John having been widowed could explain why they were sent to live with a private tutor in 1871.

My thoughts  :D

JAP
PS: Here is John (and a brother?) boarding at Woodfield Grammar School in Kidderminster in 1851 - so there's a tradition of a boarding school education.
WOOLLRIGHT Henry J, 14, Scholar, b Canterbury
Do John, 13, Scholar, b Canterbury


Offline JAP

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Re: woollright
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 31 December 05 03:35 GMT (UK) »
Dave,

Here are some possible records from FreeBMD - all spelled the 'correct' way.

First the possible death of John's first wife from FreeBMD - after the births of John and Harold.

WOOLLRIGHT John b Dec qtr 1861 Liverpool

WOOLLRIGHT Harold b Mar qtr 1863 Liverpool

WOOLLRIGHT Mary S died Jun qtr 1866 aged 29, Liverpool

Then the births of Eveline, Norman and Percy (presumably to John and second wife Eliza B):
WOOLLRIGHT Eveline Maud b Sep qtr 1873 Liverpool
WOOLLRIGHT Norman b Mar qtr 1875 Liverpool
WOOLLRIGHT Percy b Sep qtr 1879 West Derby

And the probably death of John (leaving Eliza B a widow in the 1891 census)
WOOLLRIGHT John died Dec qtr 1887 aged 50, West Derby

JAP

Offline Dave Male

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Re: woollright
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 31 December 05 16:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I think it's chancy to say that the spellings are irrelevant, unless a full family, age, and place of birth are provided as evidence (I have found some that fit this).

If one looks at the Registrations in FreeBMD (which are supposed to be official records) then all four variations appear with 7 Woolwrights, 4 Woollwrights, 55 Woollrights, and 43 Woolrights (that's ignoring the Woolbrights (78) and Woollbright (2)).

My problem with being absolutely sure, about the parentage of John and Howard (who both died in the 1890s), is that at no time do they seem to appear in a census with their parents, and there doesn't seem to be a really positive clue with regards to their birthplace of Liverpool, although Toxteth must come into consideration of course.

It's proof that I am after, but as they are not a significant part of my main tree, I shall leave the purchase of certificates for others unless I come across a decent win on the lottery (or any win at all for that matter) . ;D

Kind Regards - Dave
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Names: Brown; Robson; Davis; Male; Dowman; Harber; Tyler; Peirce; Schramm; Jarrett; McCarthy; Cox; King; Olley; Pease; Aked; Wharton; Stanley; Rudland; Grigsby; Such<br />Areas: Essex;East London; Birkenhead; Staffordshire; Shropshire; West Yorkshire; Cambridgeshire; Norfolk; Newcastle; Kent

Offline JAP

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Re: woollright
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 01 January 06 05:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Trish,

You started this thread but it seems to have wandered a little, so I thought it might be useful to summarize the story as I think it may well turn out to be.

I realize that you are concerned about the spelling of the name but it's prudent to remember:

(a) people were far from as particular about the spellings of names back then as we are now,

(b) often other people wrote the name down for them and spelled it as they thought it should be spelled not as the owner of the name actually spelled it (and that assumes that the owner of the name could read and write, and spelled his/her name consistently - neither of which was necessarily the case),

(c) there are often transcription errors in censuses and, indeed, all official records.

Also note that all the FreeBMD records listed below for this possible story are under the 'correct' spelling of WOOLLRIGHT.

Incidentally, I've looked on FreeBMD through the original books for the Mar qtr and Jun qtr 1877 but couldn't find the birth of Ernest under any spelling - perhaps for some reason he wasn't registered or was missed out from the alphabetical list.

So here's what might well be your Ernest's family (incorporating some information which has been posted earlier though not the very interesting post from 'helen adelsbury').

1851 census
H107/2038
Woodfield Grammar School, Kidderminster, Worcestershire
WOOLLRIGHT John, Boarder, age 13, born Canterbury, a scholar

1861 census
RG9/2684
55 Bedford St South, Liverpool, Lancashire
WOOLWRIGHT (sic) John, Head, Married, age 23, born Canterbury Kent, a Draper
Do Mary S, Wife, Married, age 24, born Bristol Somerset
Plus a Cook and a Housemaid

Possible children of John and Mary from FreeBMD?
WOOLLRIGHT John, born Dec qtr 1861, Liverpool
WOOLLRIGHT Harold, born Mar qtr 1863, Liverpool
WOOLLRIGHT Dora, died Jun qtr 1865, Liverpool
WOOLLRIGHT Male, age 0, died Jun qtr 1866, Liverpool

Did Mary die in childbirth with her baby son?
WOOLLRIGHT Mary S, age 29, died Jun qtr 1866, Liverpool

1871 Census
RG10/3785
144 Bedford St South, Liverpool, Lancashire
WOOLRIGHT (sic) John, Head, Widower, age 33, a Draper, born Canterbury Kent
And two servants

Also
RG10/3852
29 Cressington St, Garston, Lancashire (in the household of John HUTHERSALL, Schoolmaster)
WOOLRIGHT (sic) John, Pupil, age 9, Student, born Liverpool
Do Harold, Pupil, age 8, Student, born Liverpool

It seems that John re-married - according to the IGI, his wife was Eliza Blackstone WAKEHAM.
Possible children of John and Eliza from FreeBMD

WOOLLRIGHT Eveline Maud b Sep qtr 1873 Liverpool
WOOLLRIGHT Norman b Mar qtr 1875 Liverpool
WOOLLRIGHT Ada b and d (age 0) Jun qtr 1878 West Derby
WOOLLRIGHT Percy b Sep qtr 1879 West Derby

1881 Census
RG11/3718
Mossley Hill, Wavertree, Lancashire
WOOLLWRIGHT (sic) John, Head, Married, age 43, a Silk Mercer, born Canterbury
Do Eliza B., Wife, Married, age 36, born Liverpool
Do Eveline M, Daughter, age 7, born Liverpool
Do Norman, Son, age 6, born Liverpool
Do Ernest, Son, age 4, born Liverpool
Do Percy, Son, age 1, born Wavertree Lancashire
Plus a Cook, a Waitress, a Nurse, an Under Nurse, and a Housemaid

Also
RG11/2673
Tern Hill Farm, Moreton Say, Shropshire
WOOLLRIGHT John, Pupil, Unmarried, age 19, a Farmer, born Liverpool

Also
RG11/1371
Christs College, Church End Village, Finchley, Middlesex
WOOLLRIGHT Harold, Boarder, Unmarried, age 18, born Liverpool

And now it seems that John dies
WOOLLRIGHT John died Dec qtr 1887 age 50

To be continued!

JAP