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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jeannied213 on Thursday 05 January 06 12:05 GMT (UK)
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william george francis born march 1850 guildford street brighton only mothers name on birth certificate ann francis.strange thing on birth certificate it was an m parsons who was the informant and whose daughter william later married.
found william on 1851 census living at brunswick road brighton as a nurse child! nothing then until 1881 living in battersea
so where was he for 30 years??can anyone help solve the missing years
any help would be appreciated
jean
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Hi Jean,
Do you have this:
A William George Francis married in Hastings Registration District in the June quarter 1873 - Volume 2b, Page 13. I have found the marriage of a Mary Ann Down for the same quarter, same place, on FreeBMD (Volume 2b, Page 31) which seemed quite helpful, but I couldn't find her on 1837online for the same period ???
Perhaps someone can do a lookup in 1871 Hastings to see whether this is him.
I believe a "Nurse Child" was one who had been fostered.
Dimps
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Hi Dimps
thanks for replying I have the marriage certificate and he married mary ann parsons also born in Brighton, in rotherhithe surrey.His father is also on the marriage certificate as William George Francis.
Its the frustration of not being able to find him between 1851 and 1881 Plus where did the father suddenly appear from!!!!
Thanks for your help anyway
Jean
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Silly me! You had mentioned his wife was called Parsons.
Dimps
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have found this in 1861 wonder if maybe it could be your family???
living in limpsfield surrey
william francis 40yrs carpenter journeyman
mary ann 44yrs
william henry 12yr old scholor saya born easthoathley (dont know whether that is any where near brighton or no??)
thought as the father and sons name matched and mothers middle name could be a possiblility.what do you think?
SOURCE INFO-RG9-446
FOLIO-76
PAGE-11
regards
alli
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Hello Jean - Here is what I would try to establish if they were mine.
Any idea where Williams mother was?
What happened to her?
Is it possible that she married someone else and William had a change of surname inbetween his birth and his marriage?
Are you positive the M Parsons informant at birth of William is the parent of his future wife?
Where are the Parsons family 1851 onwards?
And - is there any connection anywhere with members of the family that William is with in 1851?
Suey
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Well, it looks like an Ann Francis may have married a Philip Phillips in Brighton in the December Quarter 1856 (2b 322). In 1861, a Philip Phillips (28, Wine Porter, born Coldwaltham), an Ann Phillips (27, born Wilmington) and Philip's sister Ann (17, Unmarried, Dressmaker, born Colwaltham) were living at 53 Newhaven Street, Brighton. RG09/595/76/43, St Peters.
At the same time, there is a William G Phillips, listed as son in the household of William Phillips (36, propery? dealer, born Brighton), Wife, Ann Phillips (33, born Brighton) and two other sons, John F Phillips (6, born Brighton) and Ferdinand L Phillips (3, born Brighton), at 17 Nile Street. (R09/599/38/15, The Palace).
Dimps
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Hi Dimps
My goodness that sounds fantastic thankyou so much for the info.
Looks like William George was born out of wedlock hence being a nurse child and possibly just possibly the father William George Francis on the marriage certificate could have been Ann's brother!!
Thanks
Jean
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Out of interest, with whom was William fostered in 1851?
Dimps
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Hi Dimps
He was living with a Thomas and Caroline Charman 5 Brunswick Row Brighton
Jean
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The William G. Phillips of the 1861 census is with his parents William and Anna in Brighthelmstone Brighton on the 1851 census.
The Ann Phillips wife of Philip Phillips in 1861 - born 'Walmington' does correspond in age to an Ann Francis servant in Brighton in 1851 who was born 'Washington'. On the 1881 census Ann written as Amy is the wife of Philip and still in Brighton with a birth recorded as 'Washington' so she is definitely a possibility.
When illegitimate people get married if they can get away with it they don't leave their father's name blank on their marriage. They often give father's names which are the same as their own or based on the name of a male in their family who they knew and might see as a father figure such as their maternal grandfather. If they know the name of their father they might give his first name but not his surname, instead using their own, so their illegitimacy is not obvious. They might do this also with their step father's name, if they had one.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda
Thankyou for that info This is one of those banging head against a brick wall and one that I might have to call a halt on now
Jean
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Since he was a nurse child on the 1851 census I would check the surviving poor law records for him.
Regards
Valda
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I thought I'd let you know that Thomas and Caroline Charman were still at 5 Brunswick Row in 1861, along with son James and boarder - 7 year-old Arthur Muzzall (another nurse child?). No sign of William, though.
Dimps
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Thanks Dimps
and the puzzle of this family will have to be left as it is
Thank you for all your help
Jean
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Jean,
Don't give up on this one. Valda's right - a look in the Minutes of the Poor Law Guardians for 1850/51 are quite likely to come up trumps.
Dimps