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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: tikki_nik2 on Saturday 21 January 06 13:41 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I have got stuck with my research of my Chapman line from Buckinghamshire. My family come from Ellesborough; George Chapman and Emma (nee Garnett) lived in the village between 1871 & 1901.
George was born in 1842 to James Chapman and Charlotte (nee Law). This family lived in Wendover in 1851 & 1861. There was also a daughter Sarah Ann b.1849, who later married a John Joseph Buggey.
James was born in Aston Clinton in 1803 and died in 1877 Charlotte was born in 1806 in Tring, Herts. I can not find marriage or birth details for either of these relatives and do not have acess to the 1841 census either.
Please let me know if you can help.
Many thanks
Nikki
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It seems likely that they were married before 1837. Where and when was their eldest child born according to the 1851 census? I think you need to post a look up for their marriage on the appropriate board which may well be Herts if she was born in Tring.
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I am not sure if there were any elder children but my great great grandfather George was born 29th April 1842 at Wendover. That info is from his birth certificate. The 1851 census record is:
James, 38, b.Aston Clinton, Bucks, Ag Lab
Charlotte, 45, b. Tring, Herts
George, 9, b.Wendover, Bucks, Lab
Sarah Ann, 2, b. Wendvover, Bucks
living at Hale Wood, Wendover, Bucks
Regards
Nikki
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One thought.
With Charlotte being older than James she may have been married previously. Thus she may have been married with the surname from her previous marriage.
There is a marriage of a James Chapman in 1841 (Hertford 6 884) probably to Charlotte Christopher (sorry I forgot the month)
The 1841 census could help with this as it might show any children.
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Hi,
Yes I had that marriage on my records before but got rid of it when I got hold of George's birth certificate that said Law on it. I hadn't thought of that option though that maybe Law was her maiden name and Christopher the name of a first marriage.
Thank you I'll look into it.
Regards
Nikki
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Ok...the plot thickens. I just checked the 1841 census and James and Charlotte seem to be living in Bucks still at this time.
First of all I made an error with the 1851 census and James was actually 48 not 38.
1841 census:
James Chapman 35 - Ag. Lab
Charlotte 30
William 10
Joseph 1
Living in York Cottages, Wendover
Of course as its 1841 these ages are rounded up/down. I am sure this must be the same couple as this is also the same place that James and Charlotte lived in in 1861 with their children George and Sarah Ann.
Also I have found christenings on the IGI for the following:
George Chapman, son of James Chapman & Charlotte, 5 June 1842, Wendover
Joseph Chapman, son of James Chapman & Charlotte, 5 June 1842, Wendover
William Chapman, son of James Chapman & Charlotte, 1 Mar 1868, Wendover
It doesn't help me with tracking the marriage down though!
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If you check the 1881 census you will find that son William is still living in York Cottages with his wife Elizabeth. This looks like a pretty stable family
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Thanks for your help. I am suprised as I have been told by a cousin that someone had tracked down a registered barstard birth and that one ancestor was a journey man and the family were 'pushed over the border'. I have found no evidence of this though apart from the fact that from 1851 onwards the mother's birth location is given as Tring, Herts.
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hello,
i have just joined rootschat and i too am researching a chapman line from bucks.
i have WILLIAM CHAPMAN born 1779 in MENTMORE to THOMAS CHAPMAN and JANE ?
he married FRANCES HUTCHINS in 1800 -in mentmore- and had sarah 1803/4; susannah 1811 and john 1811
if anyone can confirm any of this and maybe even add to it would be really good! i am willing to share what little info i have
thank you very much
linda
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Hi Linda
I have messaged you re the Chapmans .
Rgds
Fred
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Hmm No reply from Linda,
She must have left :(
Too bad, looks like we are related
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...... and that one ancestor was a journey man and the family were 'pushed over the border'.
How are you interpreting Journeyman? It simply means that he has completed his apprenticeship and is employed, being paid by the hour, rather than being a master craftsman employing others.
David
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Nikki,
I think I can supply the marriage you are looking for, although the bride's name is SAWE, not LAW
SAW without an 'E' is a name that occurs regularly in Tring - I'm not aware of having seen LAW much. I suspect although spelt 'SAWE' below, it was more usually 'SAW'.
Anyway the marriage is as follows....
St Michael & All Angels, Aston Clinton, Bucks
18th September 1826
James CHAPMAN (X), Widower OTP
Charlotte SAWE (X), Spinster OTP
by banns
Witnesses
John KIPPING
George HARROWELL (X)
James, Charlotte, and children George & Sarah Ann, who appear at Hale Wood, Wendover in the 1851 census, are just 2 addresses before my great great grandparents Thomas and Sarah PENN, (plus Sarah's mother Maria PALMER) at Miles Field, Wendover.
It never amazes me how often these coincidences come up.
These 1851 addresses, whilst technically in Wendover parish, actually lie geographically closer to St Leonards, which was part of Aston Clinton. This may explain why the marriage took place in Aston Clinton, rather than Wendover.
St Leonards church was not permitted to perform marriages at this date, being one of those "closed down for business by Hardwickes Marriage Act 1754. There were no weddings there again until, (I think, from memory), 1861.
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Nikki,
It might have been sensible to include what looks like James' first marriage too....
Anyway that marriage is as follows....
St Michael & All Angels, Aston Clinton, Bucks
13th June 1824
James CHAPMAN (X), Bachelor OTP
Maria WALLIS (X), Spinster OTP
by banns
Witnesses
Thomas HORN
Margaret HORN (X)
Curiously Maria CHAPMAN seems neither to be buried at St Michael & All Angels, Aston Clinton, nor at St Leonards. Perhaps she was buried in Wendover ?
I couldn't see any obvious baptisms relating to either children of James & Maria, nor of James and Charlotte, at either St Michael & All Angels, Aston Clinton, or at St Leonards.
I hope this moves you forward a bit, anyway.
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Brilliant, thank you so much!!! I have spent about 16 years waiting to find this answer! I had a few years ago found the birth record for a James Chapman born to George and Catherine at St Leonards, Aston Clinton, 2 Jan 1803 - there were two older sisters Margaret & Phyllis. Margaret married a Thomas Horn and Phyllis a Samuel Gower. I think the fact that they are shown as witnesses cements what has always been in rough notes as a possible family for James. I have also heard that both Gower and Thorn were big travelling families in the area which would link up with some of the vague stories I have of the family being related to travellers. This is absolutely brilliant - you have just opened a whole new avenue for me. Just out of interest where did you manage to get hold of this record?
Many thanks :D :D :D
Nikki
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Nikki,
I'm really pleased if I've been able to move you forwards.
Were you happy with SAW(E) instead of LAW, then ?
The marriage details (both of them) come from a transcription CD from the Bucks Family History Society, covering both the St Michael & All Angels Church in Aston Clinton, and also St Leonard Church, St Leonard's, Aston Clinton.
I've not seen the original register entry for these ones, obviously, but where I have compared their transcriptions to my own, I've always found them spot on.
The CD is about £7 from memory - excellent value for me, as I discovered about 9 of my ancestors are all buried at St Leonards.
They have a web-site. I can't remember if a Wendover transcription is available - my guess is not, or I would have bought it, I'm sure.
By the way there are lots of GOWERs in Tring, (I think my parent's best man one one). They are a long standing Tring name, and I don't know of a traveller connection, (although a GOWER's Removals business did start to do long distance carriage an awful lot of years ago, I think).
Stefan.
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Hi Nikki
Don't think your Chapman's were in Aston Clinton that much. A search result from Bucks FHS baptisms index has only four baptisms there between 1700 to 1800 and I couldn't pickup anymore to a George and Catherine in the parishes they had completed when we had the search done but that was in Jan 2006 so may be worth getting them to run a search.
There are two baptisms to a George and Sarah in 1784 (Joseph) and 1786 (Frances) but no sign of a burial for the Sarah to suggest George had remarried before the two daughters were born in the 1790s. So I don't know if this is the same George with different wives or not. If they were travellers they could have moved around a lot. Again burials search was only 1700 to 1800 and from the same time period, so they may be more now. We were chasing some sidelines on a Chapman tree from Northamptonshire.
Nicola
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Hi,
Update: After many many years of research I can now confirm my links to James and Charlotte through DNA links with descendants of Phillis Chapman who married Gower and was sister to my great x 3 grandfather James Chapman. Our common ancestors are their parents George Chapman and Catherine Pearce.
I am aware there was a George Chapman born to Jonathan Chapman and Sarah Charge in Wendover in 1758 and my next challenge is to prove whether or not this is the next generation in my family.
Nikki