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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Christopher on Saturday 04 February 06 22:43 GMT (UK)
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I have a book from the library until 25th February.
"Royal Irish Constabulary Officers. A Biographical and Genealogical Guide, 1816-1922" Author Jim Herlihy. Published Four Courts Press 2005. I will do my best to renew it if lots of you require look ups.
I also have Police Casualties in Ireland 1919-1922 by Richard Abbott. This was published in 2000 by Mercier Press
Christopher
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Christopher, saw your kind offer and of course leapt at the chance!! ;D
I would appreciate it so much if you would kindly see if there is information about a Laurence STRATFORD in your book. My mother-in-law's mother was the daughter of this man, and stories circulate of his death while on duty - there is also mention of the Black-and-Tans but that could merely be to do with the time-frame which I believe was the 1920s but could be earlier.
I have checked the online index to RIC men but there is no Laurence STRATFORD listed. This leads me to think that his first name as given by his daughter on her marriage (in 1943) is incorrect.
I'm sorry, I don't have alot more than that to go on. I don't know whether Mr Stratford was Irish or English, or where his daughter Margaret was born, or anything else about him. :'(
I would be interested to see what you can find, if anything - thank you so very much for the offer :D
Kind regards
Prue
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Hello Prue,
Bad news. Looked in both books. No mention of Lawrence Stratford.
I will post the names of police officers mentioned in the 1852 Directory of Belfast and Province of Ulster. It may not show Lawrence either but will possibly show one or two officers who are not mentioned in the two books.
Sorry I have been unable to assist at the moment.
Best Wishes,
Christopher
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Thanks Christopher for looking this up. I suspect that Margaret didn't actually know what her father's first name really was. I believe there are several members of the RIC with the surname Stratford, but whether any of them are the one I'm looking for, I have no way of knowing.
Don't suppose you have any suggestions? ??? :D
Many thanks again
Prue
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Christopher,
Your'e like manna from heaven, i was just looking at this book on Amazon £45 plus !!! and thinking there must be another way
The man I'm looking for is David Murnane b, 1859. d 1939. He married Mary Cummins but not sure when about 1880 is my educated guess.
Regards Richard
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Hello Richard,
This book "Royal Irish Constabulary Officers. A Biographical and Genealogical Guide, 1816-1922" by Jim Herlihy was not of much assistance to poor Prue yesterday. Your David Murnane is the second officer I have found in it today.
I have just posted a reply to a person person whose ancestors came from Co. Cork.
Jim Herlihy has David as being born in 1858 but the date of his death tallies with yours, i.e. 1939. David is burried in Co. Limerick at Cahirconlish Cemetery. Mary Cummins' name is not mentioned although Mr Herlihy discovered she came from Co. Limerick. David and Mary married on 8th March 1886.
James Peter Murnane, David and Mary's son, was bom in Co. Dublin on 27th June 1890. His brother Michael is mentioned as being buried alongside his father. No mention is made about his date of birth but he died on 10th October 1890 the same year his brother was born. Author, Jim Herlihy probably did not search for Micheal's birth as the book is about officers in the RIC rather than their siblings.
You may find James Peter living in Cork, possibly about 1910. He was a teacher for a few months at the Christian Schools in Charleville where he was a language teacher. I wonder if this means he was at University for a while.
J.P. and his father David both rose to the rank of District Inspector. J. P. married a Londoner, Lilly McCarroll on 26th February, 1920. He was promoted to Third DI on the 23rd March 1912. This link shows uniforms of the RIC in 1903 http://www.psni.police.uk/index/pg_police_museum/pg_the_royal_irish_constabulary/pg_ric_ranks_and_uniforms.htm
James Peter Murnane retired on a pension from the RIC on 20th May 1922. His father had retired on a pension
three years previously, 31st May 1919.
All the Best, Christopher
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Christopher,
many thanks , you have made my day :)
Richard
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Christopher,
just curious but did it not say when he or James joined the service?
Richard
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Christopher,
just curious but did it not say when he or James joined the service?
Richard
Hello Richard,
This book did not mention the dates that David or James joined the RIC. There is another book by Jim Herlihy.
"The Royal Irish Constabulary : a complete alphabetical list of officers and men, 1816-1922" with a foreword by
W. E. Vaughan. I think this book (published in 1999) may list the dates that members of the force joined.
Best Wishes, Christopher
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Christopher,
I was mixing things up and thinking you had that book! Thanks again
Richard
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Hello Prue,
Bad news. Looked in both books. No mention of Lawrence Stratford.
I will post the names of police officers mentioned in the 1852 Directory of Belfast and Province of Ulster. It may not show Lawrence either but will possibly show one or two officers who are not mentioned in the two books.
Sorry I have been unable to assist at the moment.
Best Wishes, Christopher
Hiya Prue,
I am back again with a different book which lists seven Stratfords but no Lawrence so I think considering a different Christian name may be a posssible option. I have one of Jim Herlihy's other books "The Royal Irish Constabulary.
A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men, 1816-1922" The Stratfords mentioned plus their registration numbers are as follows...
64828 Andrew Stratford
61711 John William Stratford
65483 Mark Stratford
46649 Michael J. Stratford
24692 Patrick Stratford
72584 Samuel J. Stratford
62306 William Stratford
The name and registration number enable you to find the service record on microfilm. These are available at PRONI, Balmoral Avenue, Belfast; the Garda Museum and Archives, The Round Tower, Dublin Castle and The Royal Ulster Constabulary Museum in Belfast.
All the Best, Chris
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Thank you very much Christopher! Since your first reply I have got hold of certs for the two marriages of Margaret Stratford, her second marriage gives father's name "Lawrence" and occupation RIC. Her first marriage (1926) gives father's name "Albert" and occupation "seaman, merchant service"!! Father deceased by 1926.
I don't know what to make of this now. I haven't had any luck finding Margaret's birth either, in England, so I suspect she was born in Ireland/Ulster somewhere. Gaaaaah!!! More Irish research!!! ;D ;D ;D
Thank you so much for posting the names. I will note them all down and you never know, might just find that connection yet.
:)
Cheers
Prue
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Hiya Prue,
I suiggest you forget about the guys with the two Christian names.
A look at the four with the one Christian name might prove successful.
Best of Luck..you never know I might have to do it for you. Would you be able to come to Dublin next year for the Rootschat Meet ??? You could visit the Garda Museum, making an appointment beforehand, when you are in Ireland.
Chris
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Hi again Chris,
I like your lateral thinking, so I might just concentrate on the single-barrelled names as you suggest.
I'd LOVE to come to Dublin!!! Was there 10 years ago this year, on a flying visit to Ireland with the hubby (only 2 weeks but we drove round most of it ;D ). Can't see myself getting back there anytime soon though...airfares are just too expensive these days :(
Prue
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Hi Christopher,
do you still have that book I've only just seen your posting, if So I'm looking for any info on James Russell born 1868 Cork.
You found lots on the two brothers that you looked up so I've got my fingers crossed . James was R.C by the way.
Many thanks for your kind offer
Jenny
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Hiya Jenny,
There is no James Russell in Jim Herlihy's book of "Royal Irish Constabulary Officers" however there are several in his "Alphabetical List of Officers and Men." I'll just list the registration numbers of the guys named James Russell. That gives you all you need to look at micro films, or ask someone to look on your behalf, which contain a lot more detail than the alphabetical list. The micro films are available at The National Archives, Pearse Street, Dublin; PRONI, Balmoral Avenue, Belfast; The Garda Museum and Archives, The
Record Tower, Dublin Castle and the Royal Ulster Constabulary Museum, Belfast.
33074 Joined between Sept 1867 - Oct 1868 James Russell
42365 Joined between Feb 1875 - May 1877 James Russell
49175 Joined between April 1882 - August 1883 James Russell
49342 Joined between April 1882 - August 1883 James Joseph Russell
54511 Joined between April 1888 - April 1891 James Russell
59854 Joined between July 1899 - Sept 1902 James H. Russell
72650 Joined between April 1920 - Sept 1920 James J. Russell
83593 Joined beween May 1921 - August 1922 James Russell
All the Best, Chris
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Thanks for your help Chris ;)
Best wishes
Jenny
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This site contains some magnificent names for Irish Police:
Charlies; Old Barneys; Bulkies;Horney Dicks; Black & Tans, Auxies, G Men
http://homepage.eircom.net/~oflannery/ca/ipolice/ipolhis.htm
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Hello Christopher,
Any chance you could check for these two gentlemen please.
James Potter aged 55 in 1901 and Ex Sgt, last stationed Castlebar.
Martin Craddock Head Constable died aged 74 in 1908 in Ballinasloe.
Thanks
Kliffy
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Hiya Kliffy,
There were two James Potters
29432 Joined between Oct 1863 - Nov 1865
77211 Joined between 1920 to 21
Your James Potter must be the guy with the lower registration number
Martin Craddock. I thought he might appear in the list of officers but it appears both a Head Constable and a Head Constable Major are the most senior of the non commissioned ranks.
Martin's registration number was 1274 .He joined the force sometime between 1816 and 1835.
All the Best, Christopher
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Hello Christopher,
Thank you very much for the information, can I trouble you to look for a Thomas CRADDOCK Head Constable to please, he is the son I belive of Martin Craddock.
Many thanks for you help.
Kliffy
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Hiya Jenny,
There's no James Russell included in the Royal Irish Constabulary Officers book.
I think I had to return the other book but if I find it I'll post again.
Chris.
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Hi Christopher,
I have spent a few days trying to find an affordable copy of Police Casualties or one in a library, all to no avail. I am in Phoenix, Arizona.
My grandfather John James Foley was an RIC constable. He was seiously wounded in an ambush in Tipperary around 1 or 2 Sept. 1919. A Sgt Brady was wounded ,I am interested in what Abbot has to say about this incident. I was able to get a little info from "The IRA and It's Enemies" by Peter Hart (pp242-243)
I also believe the info was in The Irish times 3 April 1920 since Hart uses this as a reference, but I am unable to access that either. What is interesting is that my grandfather was an American, born in New York City and returned to New York after the disbandment.
The men involved in the ambush were James Carroll, John Gilligan, John Joe Madden and Mick Hogan, and I was curious what happened to them.
I would appreciate any information you could provide. I am trying to find this info for my mother, now in her mid-80's who knows very little about what happened.
Thank you for any help you can give me!!
Roselane
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Please could you look in your RIC library book to see if there is any reference to a Joseph Orr, my grandfather, who was a sergeant in the RIC based at Donaghadee, Co. Down from 1907 to to 1916. Many thanks.
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Dear Christopher
If its not too much trouble please can you have a look for Andrew LONERGAN born c.1866, Dohill, Tipperary.
Also Daniel LONERGAN also born Tipperary (think DOB 18/12/1869).
Any info would be great. Andrew was my gg grandfather.
Many thanks
Maria
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Hi Christopher,
I am not sure if you still have access to look up the RIC records, but its worth a try.
I have just come from the gro in dublin to find out that my ggf's profession was listed as Police, in 1873 (from his marriage record), i have no idea where else to look at the moment, as I had no idea of this.
By October 1873, he was deceased.
Is it possible to find out more information about this. He lived near smithfield, and the police station I think he served with as D Devision?
According to Thoms.
I hope you can help. it was really great finding something at last.
Thanks Michelle
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Hi Christopher
I was wondering if you could have a quick glance in The Royal Irish Constabulary: A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men, 1816-1922 if you have it.
My paternal great great grandfather was William Fitzpatrick. He was a member of the RIC. In the 1901 census, he is recorded as an RIC pensioner and his birth year is consistently 1847 on both censuses.
In 1878 he married Bridget McCarthy at Cork Cathedral, his occupation given as policeman.
He was born in Queens County, Ireland
Any assistance would be appreciated
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Sadly, Christopher died in 2009 (see his profile)
Moderator comment - topic now locked.