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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Wing on Wednesday 22 February 06 10:20 GMT (UK)
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This is my first time so please bear with me. Several queries here. Great Grandfather, Albert Chandler b;1869,Bedford to William Chandler/Sarah Carter.baptized 7 2 1869, Holy Trinity. Fruitere in St Loyes/Dane St. 1901 census living with 22 yr old wife, Louise (unknown surname) b:c 1879, Morges, Switzerland. I cant find any record of their marriage anywhere. There is a record for an Albert Chandler marrying a Louisa Forney in Bedford but this is a different Chandler family. Louise is listed on her husbands gravestone as Louise, not Louisa but family memory has her as a Louisa, which I doubt.
I know they had one child at least, an Edward Albert, but there is disagreement as to the names of others, and also numbers.
Albert died,2.9.1923 according to his headstone. His wife,Louise/a, died in the early 1960's, probably in the Ampthill area as i have been told she was resident at a home in Steppingly at the time. The home still exists but wont divulge any info as they say it is lost or locked away.
Any help with any of the above would be greatly appreciated, especially Louise's Maiden name, her fathers name, when she arrived in England, Albert and her children's names. Sorry the list is so long. I have been trying to find out this information for over a year now to no avail. Thanks for your patience. Ian
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I think your query may be clearer if you just gave the census records, For example, You don't say whether they had kids in 1901.
Buying the birth cert of Edward Albert Chandle will give a mother's maiden name.
Pauline
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Oops - Pauline was quicker than me :P
Welcome to rootschat, Ian 8) 8)
I see they have 2 children in 1901: Alice age 1 and Alfred age 2months.
The first step would be to get the birth cert for one of these children, which would tell you Louisa's maiden name. I can see for instance:
Birth March quarter 1901
Alfred John Chandler
Bedford registration district
Volume 3b page 342
Tanja :)
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Alternatively
(I can't quite believe this!)
I tried the search of Ancestry's free BMD - chose 1962 at random and found
Death
Louise CHANDLER aged 81
Mar quarter 1962
Ampthill
Vol 4a Page 10
This cert should also give you her maiden name.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Ian
Welcome to Rootschat :D
I've looked at the record for 1901 and notice they have 2 children
Alice 1 and Alfred 2months - you don't mention these children does that mean you haven't got the full record for 1901? If so do you want it?
As you haven't been able to locate a marriage record, I agree with Pauline that you need to order a birth certificate for Edward Albert to find Louise,s maiden-name. There are several possibilities for Louise in 1891 but you don't know for sure she was in England by then. I suppose it is even possible they married in Switzerland.
Do you have Albert on earlier censuses? I can look for him if you need him.
Cheers Jan ;)
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Hi Ian
Double oops - everyone was quicker than me!!!
Welcome to Rootschat
If you are sure that the 1901 census which lists Albert age 34 with wife Louise 22 is yours then what makes you say the marriage in 1899 of Albert and Louisa Forney isn't yours?
In 1901 they had two children Alice 1 and Alfred 2 months, which is totally consistent with a marriage in the Sept quarter 1899.
There are no other Albert Chandlers born Bedford in the 1901 census (or any other census from 1871 onwards)
Albert in 1901 can be traced back via censuses - age 23 fish and fruit dealer in 1891; 13 in 1881, 3 son of William and Sarah in 1871.
Do you have the 1899 marriage cert as that will give Louisa's father's name?
Most of what you are requesting can be gleaned from the GRO indexes which are now available free at www.ancestry.co.uk (click on England & Wales BMD index - Beta). It won't give the parents names of any Chandler children, for which you'd need the certificate.
As Pauline says, if you get the birth cert of the Edward Albert which is the name you are sure of, you will get the mother's maiden name (which I am confident will be Forney or Fournier or something similar!). There's an Edward Albert birth in Bedford in Dec 1902 which might be him.
Regards
David
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Hi again Ian
I was just going to say - how do you know the marriage to Louise Forney is the wrong Albert and about census details etc etc but David beat me to it :D
Jan ;)
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Blimey, you lot don't hang around, do you! Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions.
The reason why I don't think that the Albert/Louisa Forney is not mine is because that Albert came from Pitstone in Bucks and was born in 1875 and also that Louisa Forney was listed as being born in Stockwill? London , in 1875. This would make their ages wrong to my records. Also the spelling of Louisa would be wrong as I am sure that when she had her Husbands headstone carved she wouldn't have allowed the wrong spelling of her name, Louise, as it is listed in the 1901 census.
I was going to apply for the marriage cert after I was sure of her maiden name else I could have ended up with the wrong one. I must admit I didn't know that the Mothers maiden name is listed on birth certs so now I will apply for Edwards cert.
I do have all the census entries for my Albert thanks. Again, thanks for all your help and advice. What a great site this is.
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Hi Ian
Where did your information about Albert being born in Bucks and Louisa in Stockwell come from? The marriage cert normally only shows residence at time of marriage, not birthplace. It would also show Albert's occupation - as he was a Fish and fruit dealer in both 1891 and 1901 hopefully he hadn't changed at the time of his marriage somewhere between those two dates.
I wouldn't wouldn't worry too much about the Louise/Louisa business. An English person today would pronounce Louise as Loo eez, whereas a Swiss would put more stress on the final e making it sound halfway to Louisa. The registrar/enumerator would write down what he thought he heard.
Regards
David
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Hi again. The info relating to Albert/Louisa wedding came from World Tree on Ancestry. This puts this Albert(not mine) into Bucks.
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There are indeed an Albert and Louisa Chandler couple in London in 1901, with children from 1898 on. Louisa being born Battersea London I can't really figure out why they would have been married in Bedfordshire ???
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The marriage Albert Chandler - Louisa Neat in December 1896 Lambeth looks likelier for them, doesn't it?
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Hey there is one heck of an echo in here! ;D
Might I humbly suggest the death cert route, as you know this is her?
As to the censuses - seems mightily coincidental if it is not them! Just my opinion!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Is Louisa Swiss? Innocent question - her parents might not have been despite her being born in Switzerland.
I just thought FORNEY sounded more Swiss!
What does our "foreign correspondent" think, Tati?
;)
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Louise/a FORNEY on the 1891 census has a father Charles, b Switzerland.
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RG12/1078/69/3
Charles FORNEY H M 26 - grocer - Switzerland
Mary Anna W M 32 - [no plce of birth stated]
Louise H dau 4 - Berks Sunninghill
Chas G L son 11 months - Hants Aldershot
Address: General Shop, Myddleton Road, Tottenham, Middlesex
what do you think?
A ;)
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Thanks for that. I have comeacross that before but disgarded it as Louise's birthpalce wasnt Switzerland and the birth year was incorrect. I know that this could be a mistake on my part as there are so many variables. I think that to put this to bed I am going to apply for her eldest sons birth cert as I have all the info for him and see what comes up. Thanks for all your help. Ian
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Good luck with that Ian
You are probably right - it could be the enumerator that was wrong, or maybe Charles was a bit frazzled when the enumerator called? ;D
Please let us know what turns up!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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She's rather young to have got married in 1899 :D or is that just an example to show the Swissness of Forney?
I also think Louise/a Forney (probably not in this country in 91, at least I can't find her) is likely to be the right one and Lousie Neat is the better bet for the London couple.
Any info on One World Tree needs treating with caution in my view.
Cheers Jan
Beaten to it again :D
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She's rather young to have got married in 1899
You are right Jan! ::) silly me?
There is a shortage of Louis(a)s that fit the bill - maybe they brought in a cousin? It wouldn't have been illegal to marry at that age, but v unlikely as you say.
Where does the age come from? If the home got that wrong, is there any other confirmation?
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She's 22 in 1901, consistent with age at death.
Jan ;)
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Changing the subject, Jan, where are your Farrs from in Beds? I've got a load in Clifton/Old Warden and Clophill
david
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Hi David
They're from Luton and just outside, although possibly originally from Harpenden area but haven't followed that through. Got Clophill connections only via marriages.
Jan ;)
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She's 22 in 1901, consistent with age at death.
And Louisa Forney is still at home in 1901 too ;) ;D ;D
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And still the information comes! What a great bunch of people. While we are on the subject, if anyone here is from Bedford...do you know where the records office is that I have to apply to for BMD's please. I have tried a search and come up with County Hall Archives, Central Library Harper st, and the old Pilgrim School in Brickhill Drive. Any clues please? Ian ???
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She's 22 in 1901, consistent with age at death.
And Louisa Forney is still at home in 1901 too ;) ;D ;D
I'll get my coat...
;D
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Ian,
Google says:
Bedfordshire Certificates
All registers for the Bedfordshire District (which covers the whole of Bedfordshire with the exclusion of Luton) dating back to 1837 are held at The Bedfordshire Register Office. These include all registrations prior to 1 May 1999 recorded in the Ampthill, Bedford, Biggleswade, Dunstable and Leighton Buzzard Districts. If the event was registered in the Bedfordshire Registration District (see below for address) cheques should be made payable to Bedfordshire County Council.
For further information in relation to Bedfordshire registrations please contact:
The Bedfordshire Register Office
Pilgrim Centre
20 Brickhill Drive
Bedford
MK41 7PZ
Telephone: (01234) 290450
Alternatively, you can order them here:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
Tanja :)
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Thanks, its ordered! Ian
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Let us know what you finds out :D
Cheers Jan ;)
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Will do jana. By the way, I used to go to school with a Farr in Bedford and also work with another one. He came from Stevington.
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Good morning all. Birth cert for Edward Chandler,b: 18 3 1902, 16 Dane St, Bedford. father, Albert Chandler, Fruit hawker, Mother LOUISA Chandler, formerly FORNEY.
1901 census has them living at this same address Arthur age 34, Louisa age 22, Alice age 1 and Alfred age 2 months.
Now the fun starts trying to find Louisa before that date and finding her parents names. Records office at Bedford did a Look-up for their marriage cert yesterday but found nothing locally so have given me the form to apply to GRO for this.
As to the ref of Charles Forney in this thread, living in Tottenham 1891,age 26...i need to find out..could this be Louisa's brother?
Another question, Is it possible to find out the names and birthdates of children born after the 1901 census to certain parents if the amount of children and their names are not known? I cant think of a way but would appreciate your input. Thanks again for all your help and advice on this topic. Ian
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The marriage of Albert and louisa is on Freebmd with the GRO reference. Just order it online - you'll get her father's name and occupation from that.
I would wait until you get that before chasing too much after Charles - you may be on a complete wild goose chase. You could try looking up his marriage which won't cost anything, so that if necessary you could order his marriage cert as well at some stage to see if he had the same father. Was Charles around in 1881 - you can look that up on www.familysearch.org.. He might be with a father.
After 1901 when you have the census to help, the GRO index is just that - an index. You'll get the names of Chandlers born in Bedford registration district but that's all. If you want useful information, like names of parents, you have to buy the certificate. You can cut down the cost by specifying the GRO should only send the cert if the parents are Albert and Louisa but that's still going to cost you three quid if it's not. If it's right it'll be seven quid. You can glean information from the index if the name isn't too common - how many Chandlers are there born in Bedford 1901-1910?
Regards
David
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Hello both
I had a quick look for FORNEYs in earlier censuses - nothing looked too promising. There were a few FORNI of Swiss origin though not yours.
Would it not be possible to talk to Bedfordshire Register Office about children born after 1901? I know some ROs are more helpful than others, but nothing lost if they can't help you.
Please let us know how you get on!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Thanks for that. I did ask Bedfrod RO yesteday and all they said was that the same information is available to me as it is to them, which I didnt really understand.
I have revisited the World Tree again with the Albert and Louisa Marraige on it and I think the percson who did that tree is way off base with the names and years. He has taken an Albert in London with an unknown Louisa wife and found mine and adopted them. They have the wrong ages, address and children so I have discounted his theory's.
Not sure what you mean y the cost of £3.00 at the GRO bedfordshire boy? Can you please explain. Thanks for the family search site, havnt come across that one before.
While at records office yesterday, they had a phone call from someone who is looking at the same names as I am. We didnt know about each other before and now I have a totally new family starting with second cousins all over the place. Work, Work, Work...isnt life great! Ian J
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OK maybe we should put Bedford on the "not helpful" list?
You should be able to consult parish records there though, depending on what dates have been deposited.
Great news on the new rellie! Very exciting! :D
A ;)
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Hi Ian
When ordering likely certificates you can say only send if parents are Albert and Louisa - if they are they charge £7 for sending the certificate, but if not they charge £3 for the lookup. Depends how many Chandlers born in Bedford as to how expensive that would work out. Shame Bedford Register Office aren't that helpful - the Records Office is fantastic.
Think Charles Forney is likley to turn out a brother to Louisa but as David said first you need the marriage cert. Charles is not in England in 1881.
Let us know what you find
Cheers Jan ;)
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If you go into http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
you can order online. Part of the procedure is a Reference Checking which you can use if you want. Just specify there that the father must be Albert Chandler. If for the reference you have supplied the father isn't Albert the GRO does no more, just charges you £3. That way you save paying £7 for a wrong cert.
You have learned a valuable lesson with that online tree. Regard them as a clue, not as being gospel. Check yourself whatever information they contain before relying on it. Some of them are well researched. Others, like the one you have looked at, contain no sources, no precise dates or any other detail, and appear to have stuck in whichever event seems to fit, without checking.
Regards
David
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Ian
Just like to add to David's caution - when searching the International Genealogical Index on familysearch you will find some records are extracted others, member submitted. The extracted ones (except for the odd mistranscription) are pretty reliable but the member submitted ones need treating with the same caution as oneworld tree.
Happy hunting
Jan ;)
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Hi,
Albert and Louise Chandler were my Great Grand parents. They had 6 Children Alice, Alfred Known as John I believe, Edward,Nellie no idea what that was short for, May and Grace who was known as Barbara.
Louise or Louisa was Swiss and it is my understanding her maiden name was Faurnier but it may have been anglophiled. My Mother and Aunt spent many summers in Switzerland.
I would love to know more about the family
any information would be gratefully recieved!
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Welcome to Rootschat!
Since 2006 when this thread started, more information has come online, including the 1911 census. I'll take a look this morning to see what else can be found.
Nellie is usually short for Eleanor, but she may have been registered as Nellie, as there's a Nellie Mary birth in Bedford in the Mar quarter 1906
In 1911
1911 census details removed
Odd that the head should have given his name as Alfred, and he also signed as Alfred, when on this thread he's always referred to as Albert
The census details given in reply #16 is definitely not your Louisa - she was still with her father in 1911, age 24 born Berkshire. Which is not to say that the father Charles born 1865 Merident? Switzerland isn't somehow connected to your Louisa
David
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Hi Clonk. Great news. That's a long time since I started this thread. Yes we have the same family and it looks like we are the same generation too. I am descended from Edward and his daughter, Barbara, is still alive and kicking and living with us in the Bedford area. Where do you come from now? Thanks.
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In 1911
1911 census details removed
Why?
I thought it was only 1911 look up requests that were banned
In any event isn't it about time that the whole question of the 1911 census was reviewed now that the FindMyPast exclusive arrangement with TNA has expired and the census is freely available elsewhere? How do you know I didn't pop into Kew this morning to check out the census? "Because we say so. Subject closed" is not an acceptable answer!
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Clonk - you'd better take down Ian's email addy before it is removed; email addresses are not allowed on rootschat.
If not, make 2 more posts, then you & wing can exchange personal messages with your email addresses.
Josey
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I am very new to this and don't know how to remove an email address. I am also the the worlds biggest techno turnip! Ian I have now got your email if you want to remove it.
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Thanks clonk, all done. I have private messaged you so I hope you can find it.
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Do either of you have the marriage cert which will show Louise Forney's father's name?
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No I dont have the cert...its one of the things on the 'to do list', where it has been for years.
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Which is not to say that the father Charles born 1865 Merident? Switzerland isn't somehow connected to your Louisa
Duh! The word that I thought might have been Merident is in fact Resident. ie Charles was born in Switzerland but was resident in England.
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I have seen her birthplace listed as Morges, Stitzerland on some census records
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I saw that, and Morges really exists! I'd found it on a map and was hoping to find Merident nearby, when I realised it was Resident!