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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: McVitie on Wednesday 05 July 06 12:36 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Living in East Sussex, I rarely get to visit my Scottish roots and wondered if there was anyone perhaps visiting the Outer Hebrides or even South Uist itself, that could possibly help me.
I'm trying to find some details on my Nan, Alexandrina (Ina) Maclean, who was from South Uist, born circa early 1900s. All I know if that her father, was Donald Maclean, and her mother was a MacDonald (christian name unknown).
My Nan later married my granddad, Malcolm Kennedy, when she moved to Skye. Marriage took place approx mid 1920s. My Nan died in 1931, after complications of giving birth to my dad.
If anyone can assist me with my Nan's roots, I would be most grateful.
Kind regards
McVitie
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im going out to south uist and the rest of the outer hebrides this week - what can i lookup for you?
Would be pleased to help
Alison
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I can't find either the marriage or death on scotlandspeople which should have all the marriages up to 1930 and deaths to 1955. Did she definitely marry in Scotland before 1930? Have you either of these certificates?
Iain Kennedy
Dowanhill
Glasgow
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im going out to south uist and the rest of the outer hebrides this week - what can i lookup for you?
Would be pleased to help
Alison
Hello Alison,
My apologies for delay in getting back to you.
Well I'm really trying to locate any information of my Nan, who was from South Uist (Benbecula I think). She moved to Skye at some point during the early 1920s where she married my Granddad Malcolm. They had 4 children, Mairi, Betty, Jessie and my dad Alexander. She had a few sisters, one of whom was Lizzie (Elizabeth) who married Walter Gordon Orr of Griminish, Benbecula. They had a son Alistair who was killed in Africa in 1940.
So far I've come up blank, and only know her name which I'm sure was Alexandrina (Ida or Ina for. short). Her father was Donald Maclean and her mother was a "Macdonald"
She died in Ardvasar, Sleat, Isle of Skye in 1931 age circa 28 and is buried in an unmarked grave, in Kilmore Cemetery.
Anything you can obtain Alison about her roots on South Uist would be most gratefully received.
Kind regards
McVitie
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I can't find either the marriage or death on scotlandspeople which should have all the marriages up to 1930 and deaths to 1955. Did she definitely marry in Scotland before 1930? Have you either of these certificates?
Iain Kennedy
Dowanhill
Glasgow
Hello Iain,
Thanks for your response. I haven't the marriage certificate, but am hoping to obtain a copy of her death certificate from my Aunt (her daughter) in Argyllshire.
She definitely married in Scotland, I guess around 1920-1925, as the eldest of the 4 kids was born in 1923 ish (Mairi) on Skye. Not sure if they married on the mainland or Skye, or even South Uist.
I will definitely get back to you if I find out any further details.
Kind regards
McVitie
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Hello McVitie,
On scotlandspeople there is -
a birth 1901 for Alex* M*c*Lean (female) in Benbecula
and
a death for Ida Kennedy in 1931 Inverness, All Districts
You can compare the two records to ensure it is the same person.
No luck on any Kennedy/M*c*lean marriages. You could try any Malcolm marriage to see what names crop up as the partner or any m*c*lean marriage.
John
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Hello John
Thank you very much for this info - and certainly fits the dates I've got. Could you tell me if I can obtain a copy of the birth cert on the site? That would certainly be a great addition to the limited documentation I have already.
May thanks again
Kind regards
McVitie
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do you still want me to do anything for you when im out there?
Your query seems to have been solved
Alison
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McVitie, John;
I have already indexed all Malcolm Kennedy marriages on SP and there is nothing even close.
Iain Kennedy
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Hello Iain & McVitie,
Iain confirms the problem with Malcolm Kennedy marriages - there does not appear to be any to an Alex*/Ida/Ina M*c*Lean or any name close to that. This suggests that they never married despite everything you may have believed when you started out on your research. This possible non marriage situation is not that unusual. However one never knows and something could come out of the woodwork.
Before you do anything else you need to familiarize yourself with the scotlandspeople site and download (at a relatively modest cost) the birth cert and the death cert if you don't receive it from your relative. It is a pay per view site so read up on the ways of optimizing your dosh before plunging in. There is very good guidance on the Rootschat site which you will find on the bottom section of the main Scottish page.
John
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Hello to you all.
Firstly Alison - yes, I think they have now answered my question - thanks for your help here though.
Iain and Tiktoktoo - thanks to you both for your help here - I have gone onto the Scotspeople site and have now registered. Will be checking my "funds" before comittng, but certainly after the initial search, I have found both my Nan's birth cert and her parents before her! Fantastic news and thanks for recommending the site!
Re the marraige cert - this certainly is an interesting scenario, and one that I have never considered. Will be digging a bit deeper, but have noted your comments, and wil definitely get back to you re this one - thanks again.
Kind regards
McVitie
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Hello folks: you seem to have been unravelling a little puzzle nicely. The Griminish story is that Alice/Alexanderina's mother also had three children by another marriage/relationship than the 1887 one to Alexander MacLean from Hougharry and I wondered if that was why the birth certificate called her MacLean MacDonald rather than simply MacLean? As she was registered as MacDonald, that might also explain the difficulty in tracking down her marriage?
There are two arms to the Orr connection. The Archibald MacLean who was the innkeeper at Creagorry in 1901 was married to a lady called Orr - and that [Redbank or Rhuabruach] was where Alexanderina was born. William Orr later bought first the policeman's house at 29 Griminish and then in the 1950s, Viewfield, 27 Griminish.
Mary Bell MacDonald, Alexanderina's mother, was daughter of Angus MacDonald, house carpenter, the second miller at Lionacleit Mill after it replaced the Mill of Benbecula in Griminish in the 1840s. He then had a small numbered croft in Griminish before moving to 27 Griminish at the general reorganisation of crofts in 1879/80. He was from Kilmuir in Skye and married to Mary MacRae from Kintail, who had brothers, I think it was in Craigstrome and then Wiay.
Hope this adds a bit to the sum of knowledge. Angus
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Hello Angus
This is absolutely fabulous news, truly intriguing - how on earth did you uncover so many facts?!
There has always been some confusion as to my Nan's real name - although my Aunt Mairi did mention Alexanderina, but I had no idea that her first name was Alice. I'm seeing my dad Alasdair this weekend, and I'm sure this will all be news to him too, particularly as he never got to know his mum, and the family was split up - my dad and youngest sister remained on Skye and 2 elder sisters went to Benbecula to be raised by Alexanderina's sisters.
The Orr connection is also interesting - my dad has a photo of his cousin Alistair Orr in his Queens Own Highlanders dress, before he was killed in Egypt, at age 23.
You mention Angus that Alexanderina's mother also had 3 other children - that in itself was a bombshell, but I did notice that on the marriage certificate that I obtained form ScotsPeople, her father Alexander MacDonald was aged 40 in 1887, when he married Mary Bell who was 21. I think, but it's not clear, that Alexander was a "widower" at the time and I just wonder if he also fathered children prior to this marriage?
Whilst on the marriage cert Angus, I couldn't make out the date format - it say something like "13th day of "Retolics"....after proclamation of "Barrno" or Barmo" according to the "Issue" of Church of Scotland". Would this be a mixture of Gaelic wording?
Thank you for clarifying the name of Mary Bell's mother too - again the certificate isn't clear, but I had an inkling it may be MacRae.
I will now attempt to search for the marriage certificate, using the various surnames/christian names that my Nan was christened with. Thanks again Angus.
Kind regards
McVitie
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Glad to hit the mark. Alexander was certainly shown as a widower on the 1887 marriage record to Mary Bell. Have a look on the Scotland's people site for his earlier marriage, probably in North Uist as he was born in Hougharry. That was where he was born to Ranald MacDonald, crofter and Jessie MacInnes, both of them deceased at the time of his second marriage.
Your problem with the marriage certificate will have nothing to do with Gaelic, merely rotten writing. It took place after banns had been read in church on three successive Sundays, announcing the intention of the couple to marry. This was according to the forms or rites of the Church of Scotland - I forget the word you are reading as 'issue' but it is no more than that. And the 13th day of ?? is no more than the date and I imagine [having not seen this particular entry] that a further peer at it may reveal a perfectly familiar month.
As to the more informal information, the folk in Griminish, like Gaels across the ages, still talk about their neighbours long ago. My notes suggest the parent of the 'other' three children of Mary Bell may have been named Back but that might just be my own execrable scribble and I will check it out next week. The family at Viewfield is still MacLean, incidentally, and I think they are of the same family. In that case, I am sure they could fill in the gaps in your knowledge.
Mary Macrae was a daughter of Kenneth MacRae and Mary Morrison, Craigstrome ex South Uist ex Harris and a sister of John MacRae at 3 Torlum. You will find an interesting story about the MacRae family in John Lorne Campbell's book A Very Civil People.
Good hunting. Angus
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Hi Angus,
You have more than exceeded any expectations I had with my MacLean research - I never imagined I would have so many other clans within the tree, and the potential branches that these may lead to. Your knowledge of the Islands leads me to think you are a native yourself, and if not you certainly should be!
Again thanks for the info regarding Mary Bell - if you don't mind me asking, but I'm intrigued to know where you found the "other" three children link, would this be on a census return?
It would be marvellous to think the MacLeans at Viewfield are indeed related - I met some of my cousins from the Outer Hebides many moons ago and one I became attached to - James MacSween (I think) tragically died in a car crash, when it overturned in a loch, some years ago now. His brother was called Roddy, and he had a sister Morag, I recall.
The book you have kindly recommended I will certainly be looking out for - now that I have relatives contained therein! :)
móran taing again Angus.
McVitie
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My father was an aircraft designer and not much call for that in Balivanich so not native born but my family have been in Benbecula for nearly 300 years and in Torlum and especially Griminish ever since crofting was invented in 1818. Accordingly, the info. was not from a Census but over a glass of malt. I will be in Griminish again next week and with any luck will be able to confirm what I had in my notes. The History Society has quite a collection of stuff, including photos. A
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I see your point Angus - I imagine the demand for such skilled designers was not on the Island's top 10 list! Interesting job it must have been though.
300 years - now that is some lineage in the same region - can't quite match that I don't think with my ancestors, but you've more than helped me trace back my lot to the turn of the 1800s, and thanks to your help, I can take this back even further. ;D
Now that's how all discussions should take place - over a wee dram, with my favourite being Talisker. The Kennedy's (my surname) were quite good at it on Skye, and I remember holidays as a child the many visits we had hopping from one house to the next, singing and reminiscing with the elders, and of course the adults getting merrier as the night wore on! Although my mum, being English, and non Gaelic speaking must have found it hard going!
Angus - I'd be forever indebted to you if you managed to obtain just 1 photo - I have none of my Nan or her side of the family, and that really would be the icing on the cake. Enjoy your visit to Griminish.
With kind regards
McVitie
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Ardbeg and malts of an Islay persuasion are my taste. Island photos are not quite as rare as hens' teeth but not all that common; in a cash poor economy, cameras were not a priority. The older photos tend to be of folks who left for North America and headed for the nearest booth. However, I will ask. A
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Fine malts indeed Angus - they do a reasonable selection of cheeses too, and compliment the brown wine very nicely...
Yes I imagine the demand for such luxuries was not high on their agenda - finding the money to pay their laird's rent would undoubtedly have been. However if any present natives possess anything remotely connected to the family, that would be the hen's teeth!
Kind regards
McV