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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: kleinfell on Monday 10 July 06 13:49 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm Stuart Fellows. I have traced my Welsh family back to it's origins in about 1840. My GGG G/F Henry settled and married in Llanbeblig. He was originally from Staffordshire and made his living as a tin toy manufacturer and later as a Licensed Hawker and shopkeeper. I believe, although not certain that he was a bag hawker. He was born circa 1817 and died in Caernarvon in 1879.
My question is does anyone have access to records of Licensed Hawkers between 1850 and 1879 and could they look for any record of Henry Fellows, or any general information about the Fellows (Fellowes) family of Caernarvon from about 1840 on wards.
Any help greatly received.
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Hi kleinfell,
Is this your ancestor:
1841 census Llanbeblig
Tanrallt
Harry Fellows (20) toymaker
He doesn't appear to be married, but living in a house with several other people. As you know, the 1841 census is very short on facts/relationships etc.
Would you like me to check the 1871?
What is the Ebenezer connection?
Ebenezer is now known as Deiniolen
Good hunting
Regards
Quarryman
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Hi again kleinfell,
Had some time to spare so looked up the 1871.
Mountain Street
Henry Fellows (50) rag dealer
Charlotte (50) wife
Mary Anne (16) daughter
Regards
Quarryman
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Hi Quarryman
Yes Henry was listed as Fellwas. He was living with his soon-to-be wife - Charlotte Lewis, His mother Hannah Williams and his Step-father Samuel Williams.
In 1871 they were living at 6 Mountain Steet. I am unable to find any listing for Henry in 1861.
The Ebenezer link is that Charlotte Fellows died at "High Street, Llanddeinolen" in 1904.
Henry died in 1879 at Mount Pleasant.
Most of Henry's Children all became Quarrymen as well as his grandchildren although I have not yet ascertained in what quarry.
Regards
Stuart Fellows
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Any use to you?
18. Carnarvon Traders - Llanbeblig Parish - 1891 Census - Enumeration District 16
Llanbeblig W Ellen Williams Wife M 53 CAE Llanbeblig W Edward Fellows Lodg S 16 Slate Quarrier B CAE Llanbeblig W Ty Cwtta William Owens Head W 30 Quarryman B AGY Llaniddan W
http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/1891ed16.html
regards Gareth
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Hi Gareth
Thanks so much for the reply.
Yes, I came across that on Caernavon Traders. Edward is the eldest son of my GG uncle, Edward Snr. Most of my male ancestors in Caenarvon all worked as Quarrymen. Although I have yet to identify in which quarry the worked.
I also have a Confectioner, Charlotte Fellows and a Licensed Hawker Henry Fellows who I would like to try and find details of their employment in Caernavon.
Regards
Stuart
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Hi Suart
I wonder if it was the slate quarries at Dinorwic as i beleive I have read Robert Griffiths was in partnership with another Rober Griffiths (Druggist) to bring slate to create the quayside at Carnarvon then they began transporting it I assume. I dont know of any other quarries other than that and Llechwedd near Blaenau Festiniog.
regards Gareth
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Hi Gareth
Thanks again, that gives me a good staring point.
Cheers ;D
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
I've not come across any hawker's licences at the Caernarfon Record Office, but they might be included in the Quarter or Petty Sessions records (the PS records have just been catalogued recently). However, there are hawkers and pedlars records for Caernarfon dating from 1819 - 1832 in the Porth yr Aur Papers at the University of Wales at Bangor.
Regards,
Keith.
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Hi Keith
Many thanks.
Are there any special arrangements needed to view the Porth yr Aur Papers?
Also, I've been meaning to ask via your website if you have any knowlegde of any tin toy manufacturers in Caernarfon around 1841. I believe it was this particular trade that my relative bought with him and was employed doing when he came to Llanbeblig from Wolverhampton and married in 1841.
Cheers
Stu
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Hi Stuart
I take it those are your Fellows listed in this months edition of Gwynedd Roots journal, are you looking for ALL Fellows in Llanbeblig cemetery or someone specifc to start with? I have a full set of 8 Llanbeblig MIs here just about to go into the loft in a box before I decorate, I also have the various Carnarvonshire and Denbighshire census cd-roms.
regards Gareth
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Hi Gareth
Yes thats me. Unfortunately they printed my email address wrong. Thank heavens for this forum.
As far as I can make out the Fellows presence in Caernarfon started with my ancestor Henry in about 1841. As far as I can tell all of the successive Fellows were direct descendants. There was a another Fellowes on the 51 census but he was a Mining Agent and dissapears on the 61.
So yes, I am very interested in all of the Fellow's in Llanbeblig churchyard; I was going to order the MI's today as a matter of fact. Moreover, I am interested in any instance where the name Fellows crops up in Caernarfon.
Could I purchase the MI's from you? I've pretty much scoured the Censuses from 41 to 1901.
Cheers
Stu
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Hi Stuart
Sorry but as my Griffiths originate Llanbeblig theyre like gold dust to me. Quite a cost for all 8 copies though on GFHS, I'll dig them out later but you cant beat having the set yourself as no doubt your research will expand through marriages etc.
regards Gareth
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Stu
Just looked in the Llanbebig index to marriages 1754-1837 and cant see any Fellows in there, none in Part 1 (Index sections part A and B) or Part 2 (C and D) or part 3 (E and F), none in part 4 (G) not a good start?
Part 5 section H has Martha Fellows H/040 and mary Fellows H/222 but long MIs and in Welsh will take me time to type later if wanted both seem 1900+. But none in section J.
Gareth
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Hi Gareth
Sounds ominous,
I guess there is no guarantee that they ended up in Llanbeblig church, but there were a few of them, i would have thought some would turn up
Thanks for looking.
Cheers
Stuart
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Hi Gareth
If you don't mind going to the trouble. I would appreciate it.
I would have thought that most would be late 1880-1900's although i do know od a number of infant deaths.
Regards
Stu
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Hold on Stu, refresh as I keep modifying screen.
Part 6 section L has L/049
In loving memory of KATE/the beloved wife of THOMAS AUBREY/10 Little Chapel St. Caernarvon/Born August 21 1884/died Oct 31. 1918/ In Memory of Hy. FELLOWS/Died March 7 1879/aged 55/also his wife CHARLOTTE FELLOWS/Died Nov 30th 1904/aged 84 years (slate headstone and surround).
Nothing in section K.
regards Gareth
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Stu
Nothing in Part 7 sections M or N.
Nothing in Part 8 which is an addendum to Parts 1-7 either.
(I havent quoted the headstones with just initials on).
Gareth
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Hi Gareth
Great, Henry and Charlotte are my GGG Grandparents.
Wonderful.
Stu
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Ok Stu
please to have been some help this morning, have to rush off now but will do Martha and Mary later this afternoon.
10 Little Chapel St gives you a pointer unless you knew that already but lots of C'von demolished and modernised wonder if its still there??
regards Gareth
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Gareth
So helpful, I really appreciate your time.
Many thanks
Stu
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Hi Gareth
Kate and Thos Aubrey Fellows are new names to me, so that is something to investigate.
Chaple Street is new to me also.
Cheers
Stu
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Stuart here's
H/040
Er Cof Am / HARRIET / Anwyl briod RICHARD EDWARDS, / Or dref hon,/Bu farw Mai 2, 1875 / Yn 43 ml. Oed. / Hefyd eu plant RICHARD HENRY fu farw Rhag. 21 1875. oed 5 ml. / ELIZABETH fu farw Rhag. 23. 1875. 18 ml. / hefyd MARTHA A FELLOWS / Yn hon a fu farw Ebrill 28, 1904, / Yn 30 mlwydd oed. / Hefyd EDWARD FELLOWS, anwyl briod yr uchod / Yr hwn a fu farw Ebrill 8, 1917, / yn 62 mlwydd oed. / Hefyd EBENEZER WILLIAMS /Anwyl briod HARRIET WILLIAMS / 21 Mountain Street. C’von / Yr hwn a gyfarfyddodd ei ddiwedd tra yn gwasaneuthu ei wlad / Gyda’r Mine Sweeper “Mercury” / Yn y North Sea, Mehefin 7, 1917, / Yn 41 mlwydd oed.
(Slate upright – sloping surrounds buried).
Hope you can translate in Welsh but looks like Ebenezer 'died for his country' ([g]wlad) on a mine sweeper may be worth some further investigation?
There will be a website that gives translation for months Ebrill = April, Mai = May etc. plant = children, hefyd = also, anwyl = dear, or dref hon = of this town, etc. Another address too and these dates are more recent of course. Oddly they didnt translate North Sea!
regards Gareth
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Stu
forgot to tell you most of these MI books have a sectional plan of llanbeblig churchyard to help you locate the graves.
I only hope that when you find time to get there to see the headstones that the cemetery isnt as bad as its shown on Carnarvon traders site otherwise you will be appalled that such a beautiful place could be so unkempt by the parishoners and those responsible for its upkeep. Espcially since so many gave their lives for the benefit of the towns future as mariners and tradesmen and particularily for their nation during the wars.
regards Gareth
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Hi Gareth
The inscription for Ebenezer Williams; do i understand correctly that he married Harriet Fellows and lived in Mountain Street?
The HMS Mercury link is very interesting and should be very good investigating.
I had noticed Keith's article on the churchyard, so very sad. My wife and I are planning a trip in Sept when the kids are back at school. It was quite a revelation to discover my Welsh heritage as we always thought we were a Staffordshire family. North Wales is one of a very fery places in the UK I have never been to so it will be very interesting.
Again, many thanks.
Stu
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Hi Stuart,
I've never used the University Archive myself :-[, but as far as I know there are no restrictions. Simply turn up.
I've not come across any references to toy makers of any kind in Caernarfon, but I would imagine that it would have been a cottage industry, and perhaps not big enough to be listed in directories (and as the listings had to be paid for, there are many tradesmen, who were simply ekeing out a living, who did not wish to pay).
Little Chapel Street is still there. If you ever visit Caernarfon, find the Post Office on Castle Square, Chapel Street is the left hand street running by the side of the P.O., and Little Chapel Street runs parallel with this behind the P.O.
Regards,
Keith.
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Thanks Keith
Thats really helpful.
Cheers Stu
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Hi Stu
yes briod = spouse or husband and it appears they lived in Mountain Street thats the way I read it, the roads should be on www.multimap.co.uk
I left North Wales, Llandudno to come to Staffordshire in 1974 so i came the other way round.
i think i'd now be trying for Carnarvon postcards of the street and you may be lucky and get one of the mine sweeper 'Mercury', certainly it should be registered at Lloyds if its a vessel shouldnt it?
regards Gareth
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Free BMD offers a Cardiff marriage in June 1911 quarter for Harriet A Fellows and Ebenezer Williams, volume 11 a page 734, although thats South Wales not North Wales.
Gareth
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Stu
Dont forget there is a census in Carnarvon in 1794 on Carnarvon Traders quite unique maybe worth a good look for Fellows?
Gareth
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Hi Stuart,
The translation of the headstone is as follows:
In Memory Of / HARRIET / Beloved wife of RICHARD EDWARDS / Of this town / Who died May 2, 1875 / Aged 43 years. / Also their children RICHARD HENRY who died December 21, 1875 aged 5 years. / ELIZABETH who died December 23, 1875 aged 18 years. / Also MARTHA A. FELLOWS / Who died April 28, 1904 / Aged 30 years. / Also EDWARD FELLOWS, beloved husband of the above / Who died April 8, 1917 / aged 62 years. / Also EBENEZER WILLIAMS / Beloved husband of HARRIET WILLIAMS / 21 Mountain Street, C’von / Who met his end while in the service of his country / on the Mine Sweeper “Mercury” / In the North Sea, June 7, 1917 / aged 41 years.
As for the Llanbeblig Churchyard; a lot of the headstones were moved many years ago during some "landscaping" carried out by the church. Sadly it destroyed the layout and the natural beauty of the place, as well as rendering as useless most of the G.F.H.S. plan of the churchyard.
I've never seen a postcard of Mountain Street, but there should be some photographs at the Caernarfon R.O.
Regards,
Keith.
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Gareth,
No Fellows at all in 1794 I'm afraid. It's not a name that's commonly found in the town to be honest, so it should stand out like a sore thumb when it does appear.
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Free BMD offers a Cardiff marriage in June 1911 quarter for Harriet A Fellows and Ebenezer Williams, volume 11 a page 734, although thats South Wales not North Wales.
Gareth
There are two links between north and south wales - Charlotte was from Monmouth and her eldest daughter Elizabeth married a man named John Booth and settled in Merthyr Tydfil around 1860. Or it's possible that Ebenezer was in the Navy and stationed in Cardiff.
Cheers
Stu
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Gareth,
No Fellows at all in 1794 I'm afraid. It's not a name that's commonly found in the town to be honest, so it should stand out like a sore thumb when it does appear.
From trawling of the '41 to 1901 census I think my ancestor Henry was the first Fellows in Caernarfon. In it's self it has made the first part of my search very easy. There are some gaps in the censuses but i think I have all of Henry's children and most of the male's children in place.
The difficulty has been tracing Henry's parents in Staffordshire and the more recent decendants after 1901.
I have another link to Mountain Street as Henry and Charlotte lived ay number 6 and Charlotte went on to live at number 21 in her later years living with her son Edward.
Thanks for the help
Cheers
Stu
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Hi Stuart,
The translation of the headstone is as follows:
In Memory Of / HARRIET / Beloved wife of RICHARD EDWARDS / Of this town / Who died May 2, 1875 / Aged 43 years. / Also their children RICHARD HENRY who died December 21, 1875 aged 5 years. / ELIZABETH who died December 23, 1875 aged 18 years. / Also MARTHA A. FELLOWS / Who died April 28, 1904 / Aged 30 years. / Also EDWARD FELLOWS, beloved husband of the above / Who died April 8, 1917 / aged 62 years. / Also EBENEZER WILLIAMS / Beloved husband of HARRIET WILLIAMS / 21 Mountain Street, C’von / Who met his end while in the service of his country / on the Mine Sweeper “Mercury” / In the North Sea, June 7, 1917 / aged 41 years.
As for the Llanbeblig Churchyard; a lot of the headstones were moved many years ago during some "landscaping" carried out by the church. Sadly it destroyed the layout and the natural beauty of the place, as well as rendering as useless most of the G.F.H.S. plan of the churchyard.
I've never seen a postcard of Mountain Street, but there should be some photographs at the Caernarfon R.O.
Regards,
Keith.
Hi Keith
I've just read through your translation of the MI and notice that Mother, Son and Daughter all died in 1875 - son and daughter both in December. Are you aware of any epidemics around that time?
Cheers Stu
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Hi Stuart,
I haven't come across any references to an epidemic in 1875, but there were so many of them at this time that it is quite possible. Just this afternoon I have come across a reference to an epidemic of influenza during late 1899/early 1900 which affected 700 people in the town, and also an epidemic of scarlet fever in 1899.
I'm sure that the Superintendent Registrar here at Caernarfon would be happy to check the cause of deaths for you. Her name is Mrs. Menna Williams, and the tel. number is 01286 682661.
Regards,
Keith.
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Hi Stuart,
I had to pop down town this afternoon, so made a small detour to visit Little Chapel Street. This is what it looks like today:
(http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/littlechapelst1.jpg)
(http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/littlechapelst2.jpg)
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And a couple more from the other end of the street:
(http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/littlechapelst3.jpg)
(http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/littlechapelst4.jpg)
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One more:
(http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/littlechapelst5.jpg)
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Thanks so much Keith
I'm guessing that the houses like the cottage opposite the pub would have stretched down both sides?
I'll recognise it when I visit in September.
I've not had much luck locating Mountain Street but I did hear that it may have been demolished during some slum clearence, but I did hear that Moutain Street ran off Mount Pleasant. Do you know how true that it.
I have found a picture of Mount Plesant
(http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/DATRhagorol/photos/XS528/XS528.179.3.jpg)
Cheers
Stu
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Hi Stu,
That's right, Mountain Street is just off Mount Pleasant Square, in the area known as Twthill. It was a typical terraced street. The left hand terrace (as you walk from the square) still survives, but the other side was demolished and replaced by some bungalows. It looks very strange and lopsided now. The area was at one time a notorious place, and some of the streets there were indeed demolished. At one time the red light district of the town was a place called Mill Lane, just outside the town walls. When the authorities had finally had enough they moved all the prostitutes out, and they ended up in the Pentre Newydd/Tanrallt/Mountain Street area. It was so rough at one point that the local nickname for the place was "Pentre Merthyr," mirroring the fact that Merthyr Tydfil in South Wales was supposedly a very rough town. In the photo below the houses on the left and centre are Pentre Newydd, while the narrow lane you can just about see between them is Cadnant Place. Behind the left hand terrace was Tanrallt, and up above looking down on them was Mountain Street. The photo shows the workmen starting to demolish some of the houses.
(http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/seilobach.jpg)
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Hi Keith
Thanks for the photo.
My GGG GMother Charlotte would have experienced all of what you described because between 1841 and 1904 she lived in Tanrallt, James Court, Pentre Newydd and Mountain Street.
Cheers
Stu
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Hi Keith
So was there a little chapel in that street then and can it be seen in the photos, if so please can you tell us which building is it and what chapel was it?
The 1851 census for Eglwysbach/Glan Conway shows my ancestor John Griffiths was born 'Carnarvon, Carnarvon' abt. 1794 and many yrs ago when I visited the Record Office in its old building then, they told me to concentrate on Llanbeblig, I have been going round in circles ever since! He had died by 1861 but cant find his grave?
I have the 1841 Griffiths in paper format and the cd-rom since last week and have a number of options (13) for John Griffiths and 'their' families but i'm still not convinced I have the right one for the next step.
The likely option is for John the son of Griffith Griffiths (Corvizer) who with his wife Elizabeth Bleythin had 13 children some of whom must have died as the names are repeated in successive children. But I havent mapped all the other John's out to see if they lived or died.
As John was no.13 he seems to have left C'von for Glan Conwy where he turns up marrying Catherine Jones of Bronyferiaeth however there are Griffiths living next door there to "her" farm. John was an ag.lab!
I probably need all the John Griffiths born and died from Llanbeblig registers from say 1790 to 1800 then work out who lived/died?
Gareth
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Keith
Could Stu's relatives have died from cholera as that seems to have troubled the town for many years if one reads your 'Traders' site throughout?
Gareth
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Gareth,
The chapel was Seilo Bach, and it can be seen on the right hand side of the photo. The following is a short history of the chapel, written by the Rev. J. A. Hughes, M.A., which appeared in the Carnarvon & Denbigh Herald, September 25, 1908:
"Originally, a mission school, opened in 1856, amongst the poor of the town at Tan'rallt, by a small band of devoted Christian workers from the Welsh Presbyterian churches, Moriah and Engedi, it soon developed into a mission church. This was founded in 1861. The building becoming too small, a new edifice was raised in 1869, close to the original "Siloh," at a total cost of £2,000. The good work still flourished, and this building in its turn becoming inadequate, the present "Siloh" was requisitioned and opened in 1900, at a total cost not far from £6,000. The original mission, under the name of "Siloh Bach," continues its excellent pioneer work under the auspices of the church. By the end of the year 1907 the total debt on the whole estate had been reduced to £3,000. When it is considered that the bulk of the members have always been, and still are, working people living on a weekly wage, and a few small farmers and tradesmen, it will perhaps be admitted that the efforts of the adherents have not been altogether lacking in zeal and determination."
It wouldn't have been cholera that killed them as the last outbreak of the disease in the town occurred in 1866/1867. This was by far the largest outbreak of the three to hit Caernarfon, (the others being in 1832 & 1849), and led directly to a provision of a new clean water supply for the town and the building of the fountain in Castle Square. I would imagine that the most likely cause of death would have been scarlet fever or whooping cough for the children and tuberculosis for adults.
Regards,
Keith.