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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Census and Resource Discussion => Completed Census Requests => Topic started by: bhowells on Thursday 07 September 06 15:17 BST (UK)
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This is from the index of birth registrations available on ancestry.com, for Jan-Mar 1931. The handwritten entry at the bottom of the page, Daphne Summers, is my mother.
I know the numbers/letters beside the name normally indicate a volume and page number - but what does "See D45" mean?
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I've seen similar annotations, but they've not impacted my findings like this one would - viz No Page number !
Its a GRO note, so maybe contacting the (succesor to) the original Hampstead LRO would reveal something - at least their own indexing for your mother !
Looks like its Now Camden ?
Copies of Birth, Marriage, Civil Partnership and Death Certificates are available from Camden Register Office if the event took place in the present London Borough of Camden or in the former St Pancras or Hampstead Registration Districts or some parts of Holborn.
Applications can be made in person, by telephone or by post. Please give as much detail as possible of the certificate you require.
Fees for historic certificates are £7 for a full birth certificate, death certificate, marriage or civil partnershp certificate and £5.50 for a short birth certificate.
Certificates can be purchased back to the late-1800s. Certificates of historic entries are available from 1837 onwards.
Contact
For more information please contact the Camden Register Office
http://www.camden.gov.uk/redirect?oid=%5Bcom.arsdigita.cms.contenttypes.SiteProxy:%7Bid=53922%7B%5D
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December 45! 8)
Was she adopted in Dec 1945, perhaps?
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Now thats what I call lateral thinking - looks good Daphne U mums maiden NEWSON Hampstead 1a 659
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I saw something similar just a few weeks ago ;)
I checked the March 1931 quarter whether the she was born a Newson but she wasn't...
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now that's weird.
You are quite right, I checked Dec 1945 and sure enough there she is. So that note on the page for 1931 is a correction (because she really was born in Feb 1931) - but how odd there wouldn't be a corresponding note on the Dec1945 page, linking it to the corrected entry. If we didn't know when she was born this would be utterly confusing.
Thanks for clearing it up!
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I believe adoption is the only reason why she would have been registered again in 1945, this time under her new name.
I don't think adoptions are ever linked to the original birth registration. To find out under what name she was born, you will have to check the whole March 1931 quarter for a Daphne U with mother's maiden name Newson.
Tanja :)
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I think it will come as a great surprise to my mother to find out she was adopted.
In both the Mar1931 and Dec 1945 entries she is listed as Daphne Summers (her father's last name), mother's maiden name Newson, which we know is right, although it appears her parents were not married until the end of 1932. In December 1945 her father had just been released from a POW camp in Germany.
Would her father have had to legally adopt her, despite being her real father, just because they were married after she was born?
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Think you might be onto something there !
I know you can approach the Registry people to 'clarify' situations .....
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I've just gone back and checked, and there is an entry for her under Newson/Newson in the first quarter of 1931.
So it would appear that she was b before her parents were married, then her parents had her name legally changed to her father's in 1945, no doubt spurred by his wartime experiences (shot down over Nuremburg, then interned, etc).
Off to contact Camden Registry Office to see what kind of records they can produce - thanks for all your help, both of you!
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Thinking about it, the GRO added that D45 note to the wrong 1831 index !
So effectively, there are 2 births for your mum ! and if it wasnt for the Xref she would be 14 years younger !
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The 1945 entry is not a link to something else, I believe, ScRoppers.
Sorry for saying there wasn't a Newson entry for her in 1931 :-[
Don't know how I managed to miss it :P
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I know Tanja - I'm saying that adding 'See D45' to the surname Summers in 1931 was wrong - it should have been added to the 1931 Newson page index entry ..... :D
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I'm not sure, ScRoppers...
Adoption is official falsification of documents ::) so they just officially add a new Summers birth for March 1931 in 1945.
They never link the new registration with the original birth.
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But she wasnt adopted - they 're-registered' her when dad came back from WWII to clear up her registered name to the correct one - they married after her birth .... ;)
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You're right, of course ::)
Doesn't a name change work the same way?
Perhaps her father wasn't officially recorded the first time?
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Thats right he wasnt - hence registered as Newson (Mum) - I guess they wanted it totally fixed in 1945 !
Name changes - you can take any name you like, you can back it up by Deed Poll, but it isnt necessary to register it with the GRO or anywhere else.
Hence you wont find an entry for 'Screaming Lord Sutch' or other well known politicians :D
I use my dogs name a lot - 'on the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog' .... ;D ;D
PS. Its far harder to change the name of your house - I kid you not ! ;) ;)
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Now you have given me even more to look up - Deed Polls, Screaming Lord Sutch, etc. etc... have pity on a poor Canadian! I haven't even worked out where Camden is yet.
Change the name of a house? we don't even give them names in the first place, as a general rule.
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I've come across this with my lot and it works like this.
Parents weren't married so birth entered under both surnames if both parents went to register birth. If mom went on own then birth would only have been entered under mom's name (unless she provided marriage cert) because dad not present to 'own up' to being father.
However dads could go and register birth on own, without mom or marriage cert & put down any name for mother! As parents married later, there is a procedure to 'legalise' birth as if parents were married before birth.
This may have come to the fore if Daphne at age 14, needed her birth cert as ID to start work (this exact scenario happened with my sister). Daphne has grown up thinking she is a Summers but her birth cert differs & shows her parents weren't married. So to clear it up & avoid any embarrassment for Daphne & themselves, her parents went along to the registry with their marriage cert & explained it to the registrar in 1945.
If you applied for the 1931 cert, the note D45 would tell the registrar to issue the 'legalised' birth entered in 1945 & not the 1931 one. Hope that makes sense, it's as clear as mud to me. TonyR.
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Excellent - cheers Tony, makes a lot of sense.
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Thanks Tony -
So if we were to ask for her birth certificate we would get the "legalized" one showing both her parents names, as if that was the way it was issued in the first place. But if you asked for the other certificates (original birth certificate and subsequent legalization/adoption documents) would they give them to you?
And we would never even know about this whole situation if the birth registration index wasn't available for viewing online.
Interesting.
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So if we were to ask for her birth certificate we would get the "legalized" one showing both her parents names, as if that was the way it was issued in the first place.
Yes, as if they had been married before her birth.
But if you asked for the other certificates (original birth certificate and subsequent legalization/adoption documents) would they give them to you?
No, you wouldn't get 'original' one, unless the registrar missed the note D45 to the later 'legalised' one, although I have heard of someone on here who this happened to & they ended up with the two certs!
And we would never even know about this whole situation if the birth registration index wasn't available for viewing online.
Interesting.
That's right. TonyR.