RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Linda_J on Wednesday 13 September 06 11:01 BST (UK)
-
Hi
I am posting this for a friend who's isn't online.
Ethel Eliza Harris was born between 1889 and 1891 in Bristol. The family "story" says her mother died when she was about 2 and she was raised by her Aunt. This fits in with the 1901 census as we can find Ethel Harris aged 9 (1892) with her grandmother Sarah Hurley and her Aunt Eliza Hurley.
The family insist Ethel was born in the Parish of St Phillips and St Jacob in Bristol but we can't find a birth for her. We have searched FreeBMD, ancestry Beta BMD as well as 1837.com
When Ethel married in 1908 but gave her age as 19 (1889) and gives her fathers name as Edward (occupation colier).
Possibly our only hope is a baptism record for that area. Can any one help with a lookup please?
Regards Linda
-
Have you considered this birth?
Ethel Elizabeth HURLEY
Barton Regis
6a 122
March q 1892
If her parents were not married at the time of registration, she could only be registered in her mother's maiden name.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
Hi Arranroots
Thank you for your reply.
We looked at that entry and my friend ordered the birth certificate but it appears to be for a different person who appears with parents in the 1901 census.
We ordered another certificate for an Ethel Harris, the only one we could find for Bristol itself, which was also wrong and also shown with parents in 1901. All other Ethel's have other middle names and appear to match with families in the 1901 so we discounted those.
I can't see any way around this other than to order more certificates and hope, unless some one can find a baptism.
Regards Linda
-
Hi,
Just a thought.At the time of Ethels birth would not, POSSIBLY, the reg. district be Barton Regis for St. Philip and Jacob?someone may say I've got it wrong.I had a look at the births and there is an Ethel Elizabeth Hurley???
Regards
Joburg
-
Marriages Mar 1890
Harris Edwin Barton R. 6a 115
Hurley Elizabeth Barton I. 6a 115
Same Hurley family as in the 1901 census.
1891 census RG12 1960 folio 48
5 Union Place St Philip and St Jacob Gloucestershire
Sarah Hurley 57 Wiltshire, Head Widow Stick Chopper
George Hurley 26 Wiltshire, Son Carter
Eliza Hurley 19 Bristol Daughter Charwoman
Fredrick Hurley 16 Bristol Son Cabinet apprentice
Sarah A Hurley 13 Bristol Daughter Stick chopper
6 Union Place
Edwin Harris (27 or 20) St Georges Head Married Railway servant
Elizabeth Harris 27 Wiltshire, Wife Married
Mable Harris 10mths Bristol, St Philip Daughter
Regards
Valda
-
Deaths Sep 1892
Harris Mabel 2 Bristol 6a 20
Births Sep 1890
Harris Mabel Bristol 6a 13
Deaths Mar 1893
Harris Elizabeth 29 Bristol 6a 35
Regards
Valda
-
Since Mabel only had one name have you checked this birth registration?
Births Dec 1891
Harris Ethel Bristol 6a 28
Perhaps the Eliza was an addition that came to be added after Ethel's mother's death in memory of her?
Regards
Valda
-
Hi everyone.
Many thank for all your ideas and suggestions.
We have both the Ethel birth certs mentioned but neither is correct.
We saw the Harris family living next to the Hurley family in 1891 and I thought it fitted in nicely but my friend is adamant that there was never a Mabel and she couldn't believe that Edwin would change from Railway worker to collier.
We had discounted the Barton I marriage as that is Lancashire but I now see the volume number is wrong for Barton I but correct for Barton R.
I think I will risk ordering that Marriage Cert but it still leaves Ethels birth just as much a mystery.
Linda
-
In 1901 Ethel is with her grandmother Sarah Hurley aged 69 born Chiverell Wiltshire - shopkeeper, oil & sunderies and her aunt 29 year old Eliza Hurley. a charwoman born Bristol
Next door is George Hurley aged 36 born Devizes Wiltshire, a mason's labourer, with his young family.
I think if you accept the 1901 census as correct then you really do have to accept the 1891 census entry which matches so strongly to those three Hurleys.
People change jobs. Loosing your wife and daughter so early in the marriage may very well have caused Edwin to change the path of his life. Have you found him on the 1901 census?
I would have thought if anything what your friend may have argued was the Edward of the marriage certificate against the Edwin of the census and marriage was a slightly different name (perhaps indicating little contact between father and daughter?) - not the change in job (in both cases unskilled).
Young children who die young are not necessarily spoken of to younger siblings and if they aren't they are 'lost' from family memory.
Regards
Valda
-
Hi Valda
Thanks for those very relevant points.
There was apparently no further contact at all from the time her father left. The story actually goes on to say the father ran off to Liverpool and became a preacher. We found several possible Edward/Edwins but nothing we could really point to and say that's him.
The difference in ages for Ethel from the 1901 census and that on her marriage certificate, where she added 3 years, caused my friend to become sceptical.
Linda
-
If there was no further contact then that probably means Ethel was 'guessing' what her father's occupation was or might have been when she married.
Is there enough information to establish that the Hurleys on the 1901 census are the correct family?
What age was Ethel on her death? If the 1901 census and the 1908 marriage are the same woman then clearly one gives an incorrect age. It is still possible that it was the 1901 census (and Ethel was simply missed off the 1891 census), or on her marriage she upped her age from a very young 16 (either way 16 or 19 permission would have to be given to allow her to marry, as she was under age - did she marry in church, because there is ususally some indication in the register or banns of whose permission was given for the marriage to take place).
Regards
Valda
-
Hi Valda
I dont have Ethels death details to hand but I can check on that later.
Ethel married (after banns) in the parish church of St Phillips and Jacobs, the same area of Bristol where she was suposed to have been born and raised. It is also known Ethel went back to Bristol every year and spent 2 weeks with her aunt Eliza who remained in the same parish of Bristol until her death.
Unfortunately both myself and my friend are too far from Bristol to be able to get to the records office there to search the church records.
Linda
-
The record office will do the search for you and for any baptism, but of course there would be a charge.
http://www.bristol-city.gov.uk/ccm/navigation/leisure-and-culture/records-and-archives/
I imagine Bristol & Avon Family History Society can recommend one of their members who could do any research for you cheaply and efficiently.
http://www.bafhs.org.uk/
If you had a more definite age for Ethel and therefore birthdate, Bristol registration office could confirm whether they have a birth registration or not for her, in case such a registration was missed off the GRO index.
Quakers Friars, Bristol, BS1 3AR.
Tel: 0117 903 8888 or 8872.
With Elizabeth and Edwin's marriage details it should at least be possible to find Edwin's family on censuses pre 1891 and find out about them, if not about what happened to Edwin after 1891. Have you all the Hurley family census details?
Regards
Valda
-
Hi Valda
Thanks for the information.
I will pass your suggestions onto my friend and see how she want to progress.
Linda
-
Hi Linda
I'm from hurleys of that parish , my great grandmother known as Bessie is said to have children with her sisters husband who lived next door ! Possibly could be linked the hurley records are hard and mixed up. Bessie is burried in avon veiw cemetery bristol she had 6 children Prim,Rose,Ted,Sam,Lil and Sid my grandfather.