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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: Muffin41 on Wednesday 18 October 06 17:09 BST (UK)

Title: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry? **COMPLETED**
Post by: Muffin41 on Wednesday 18 October 06 17:09 BST (UK)
According to the 1901 census

RG13 Piece 4986 Folio 148 Page 9
Alfred Henry Sutton aged 21 was living in Cardiff.  :)

His family all lived in Bath before moving to Cardiff  :)

I have found out that Alfred Henry Sutton married a Mary Fry OR Pauline Barth in Cardiff  :-\

1 quarter 1901 Cardiff 11a 464

Can anyone say if this is the same Alfred  or not ??? and who did he marry  ???

Muffin41


Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: lizdb on Wednesday 18 October 06 17:19 BST (UK)
I dont think they can be the same guy.

The 1901 census was taken 31 March , so the chap on the census was single as at that date.

But if the marriage was registered in the first quarter it must have been prior between 1 Jan and 31 March

If you can find the married Alfred in 1901 it should have him with a wife either Mary or Pauline - unless of course they were away on honeymoon and missed the census!!!!
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: lizdb on Wednesday 18 October 06 17:23 BST (UK)
Just noticed you didnt actually say he was single on the census, but I presume so - or the question wouldnt arise!
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Muffin41 on Wednesday 18 October 06 17:32 BST (UK)
I know that one of his sisters Maud Eleanor married in 1899 - Cardiff 11a 646 - Francis Leman Fisher. BUT she was still stated to be living with her parents.  ::)

I have found that a census sometimes had a person living or working at two different addresses.   ;) So maybe Alfred lived somewhere else in Cardiff  ???  ???
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: cath151 on Wednesday 18 October 06 17:37 BST (UK)
Hi,
 On the 1901 Wales census  RG 13/4984   167/44 Cardiff

23 Chancery Lane
  Alfred H Sutton head  21  Masons Labourer            Somerset,  Bath
Mary             "      wife   19                                         Glam., Cardiff

In the same house is a family comprised of Frys and Suttons, so probably Mary Fry.

Best wishes
  Cathy
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Muffin41 on Wednesday 18 October 06 17:44 BST (UK)
Thanks Cathy, can you say if Maud and Francis Fisher still lived in Cardiff in 1901.  ???

I have not looked into this possibility  :-[

Muffin
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Muffin41 on Wednesday 18 October 06 18:15 BST (UK)
Help  :)

Can someone give me details of the 1901 census RG13/4984 167/44 Cardiff which Cathy mentioned  ???

Thanks in advance, Muffin  :D
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 18 October 06 18:25 BST (UK)
Hi Muffin, I posted the 1901 for you yesterday, I have rechecked and all details are as posted, all there, all single.  

When I rechecked, on previous page at same address 42 Albert Street, same address as parents 1901
 
John Rogers 24, hd, m, family gardner, cardiff, Glam
Louisa Rogers, 23, wife, somerset
Lily Dau 5 cardiff
Alice, 3, dau, cardiff

Marriages Sep 1896
 
Sutton  Louisa     Cardiff  11a 436  
ROGERS  John     Cardiff  11a 436

So it seems that Louisa is down twice at same address.  It could be that parents included them as always, or perhaps were losing it a bit.  Or enumerator did not know his job...

It seems the three were married and are recorded twice in the 1901.  Once with parents as single, the other with married partners.  ???

Maud is with husband Francis Fisher 1901

RG13 Piece: 4977 Folio 64 Page 2

 22 Lillenny? Street, Cardiff
Francis L Fisher 20 dock lab, Alridge Lane (N26)
Maud E Fisher 19 wife, Bath, Somerset
Francis H Fisher 1 son Cardiff
Maud E Fisher dau, 9 months  Cardiff

Cas

Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Muffin41 on Wednesday 18 October 06 18:30 BST (UK)
Thanks Cas, I got lost as well with my various requests for information regarding the Sutton Family.  :o

I think that I have it all now.  ;D

Muffin41   :)
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 18 October 06 18:41 BST (UK)
1901 - RG13 Piece 4984 Folio 167 Page 44

Civil Parish: Canton - address as above
 
Mary Ann Fry 56  hd charwoman somerset
John Rogers 23  son, m, garden & domestic, Cardiff
Kate Rogers 21  dau s, gen servant, Cardiff
Polly Sutton m dau,19  cardiff
James Fry 17 son, cardiff
Alfred Sutton 21 son in law, mason lab, Bath, Somerset


Same household but....
Alfred H Sutton hd, mason lab, Bath, Somerset
Mary Sutton, wife, 19, cardiff

Seems Alfred is down twice  ???  ??? Possibly Polly/Mary are the same?

Too confuse matters further, is John Rogers above the same husband of Louisa? 

Cas
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Muffin41 on Thursday 19 October 06 17:36 BST (UK)
It looks as if the Sutton family is down twice in the Cardiff 1901 census.  ::)  It doesn´t help much when one is searching for certain persons.

I have found a John Rodgers born in 1875 2 quarter 1875 Cardiff 11a 258

This could be the right one  ;D OR not  ???

Now we have - from you last 2 posts - John age 23, John age 24 AND  my  fund, John age 25. Shall we toss a coin   ???  ;D

Muffin
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Thursday 19 October 06 18:42 BST (UK)
Guess the only way you will know is to get Louisa marriage cert.  Tried to check back, looks like Mary Ann married had 2 children by ? Rogers, then married James Fry and had 2nd two.

1881  - RG11 Piece 5282 Folio 45 Page 38

Street address: 33 Edward St, Llandaff, cardiff

James Fry 56 hd, m, plasterer, Mamesbury, wilts
Mary Ann Fry 33  , Somerset
John Rogers 5  son, whitchurch, glam
Elizabeth Ann Rogers 1  canton, glam, (this is poss Kate)

1891 they are all Fry

Civil Parish: Canton 

Mary Ann Fry 45 wid charwoman, somerset
John Fry 16 son lab, cardiff
Elizabeth Ann Fry 12 
Mary Fry 10
James Fry 7   
(no Polly, in my family this has been a pet name for Mary)

Think there is a good poss that they are one and the same, have never seen this on census before  ???

Cas
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Muffin41 on Thursday 19 October 06 18:54 BST (UK)
Thanks again for your help Cas.  8)

I will send all my certificate requests off and hope that I can fill in the gaps.  :)

Muffin41
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Thursday 19 October 06 18:56 BST (UK)
Good Luck  ;D

Cas
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Muffin41 on Friday 20 October 06 12:33 BST (UK)
Hi Cas,

Have been "digging up the internet sites"  ;D and believe that RG14 Piece 4984 Folio 167 Page 44 is correct and that both families entered the details in the census.  :D
 Will have to wait and see what the certificates bring up.  ;)

In the meantime can you help with more James Fry family details in the 1881 census and maybe the 1871 census  ??? Maybe that would give me a clue  :-\  ::)

Muffin
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 20 October 06 12:42 BST (UK)
Have completed details for 1881 above, will check to see if I can find James Fry in 1871, but don't think they married till mid census

1871 Wales - James Fry, with first wife

RG10 Piece 5365 Folio 27 Page 52

*************


1861 Wales - James Fry, with first family

RG9 Piece 4031 Folio 80 Page 11

Cas
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 20 October 06 12:53 BST (UK)
Marriages Sep 1879

Fry  James     Cardiff  11a 329   
ROGERS  Mary Ann     Cardiff  11a 329

Have posted info above.  Think you are in Somerset or Wilts for 1851 for him.

If you need any more, let me know.

Cas
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: talf on Friday 03 November 06 14:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Both   i admire the way you have sorted this. I have been trying unsuccessfully to locate John Rogers prior to 1901 census

My Gran Annie Rogers was born 1903  21 Lionel st. her parents were Louise Emma Sutton and john Rogers. Her siblings lily Maud 1896 , Alice Louisa 1898,
john h w 1912 Louisa Emma 1914 (Cecilia and May also but cannot find evidence). Family rumour has it that Cecilia and May died from TB and Young John died when fell off ladder
I remember Louisa Emma was called auntie Louie and lived all her life at 86 Ethel st (she married an Andrew Walsh). She died 1997  My Gran married Edward George Ridout from Railway St
Talf
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry?
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 03 November 06 14:57 GMT (UK)
Hello talf, a very warm welcome to Rootschat  :)

Glad it was of help to you.

I am sure that Muffin will be delighted that you have made contact, there is a thread on the Somerset board that traces the Sutton family, but I am sure Muffin will fill you in with what details she has.

best wishes

Cas
Title: Re: Who did Alfred Henry Sutton marry? **COMPLETED**
Post by: Muffin41 on Friday 03 November 06 18:49 GMT (UK)
Hello taff, thanks for the info about the Rogers family.  :D

Henry James Sutton married Elizabeth Pow in 1877, their daughter Louisa married John Rogers about 1895, as Lily was born in 1896 I would say 1895. Not as yet confirmed.  :)

Have a look at the Sutton Thread on the Somerset board for the info that I have for the Sutton family.  :D

Muffin41