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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: johnP-bedford on Wednesday 01 November 06 20:57 GMT (UK)
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Hello, sorry it's a Smith
The IGI has a member submitted entry of marriage for a Joseph Smith to Mary Ann Whittal on 14/05/1818. On the 1851 census it says he is born Sharnbrook in 1801 (whilst 1841 says 1797) The Sharnbrook PR does not list a baptism for him. However I'm told in his later years he was a big noise in the Sharnbrook Baptist church so possibly his family were baptists too.
I am looking for his baptism & hence his parents. On 1841 census there is a Mary Smith age 65 (1776) in the household - perhaps his mother.
Anyone got info from the baptist church records or tell me where to look.
Thanks John
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Just a suggestion as you are far more experienced than myself
I did approach a Baptist Church that is still alive and well to request info. I was given a tel no but to date have not approached....just me being reticent.
I do know however of one person who did the same ( for another than the one I want and the one you want) and got what he wanted........so could be worth a try. So few records for the Baptists are lodged at CRO.
Regards Susan
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Thanks Susan
There is a Sharnbrook Methodist Chapel that is still active (listed in yellow pages). So do I phone up & ask if they've got records ?
I am going to visit Beds Archives in mid November, & I will see what they've got first.
Regards John
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Beds CRO have few as I was looking for Baptist records just a few weeks ago. However they may have something for Sharnbrook but according to their website....no go. What they have seems to be from those now defunct.
I would phone......cannot ignore that whereas a letter can be and one hates not knowing whether it has arrived or not.
A website that you may or may not be aware of and might be useful
http://website.lineone.net/~gsward/index.html
Bye Susan
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Thanks Susan,
I've seen Graham Ward's website - he has number of Partridge's in his tree that (perhaps) link to mine.
..... won't phone today - probably busy on a Sunday !
John
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Concur with that they might be busy.
Sometimes I feel that I'm trying to teach my Grandmother to suck eggs.....so hang about.
Would be interested in anything you find for Baptists at the CRO. They were at a loss initially as to my request for Baptist's......but one archivist came up with the "goodies".
Bye Susan
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Hi John
The aptly named ''Souldrop'' is always a place to try when considering Sharnbrook - but they didnt have a church?
1803 Muster defence list has labourer: Jn SMITH [no age given] in Souldrop
Sharnbrook has a 17 yr old blacksmith called Robert SMITH; and a 31 year old married labourer called W. SMITH.
cathy
Ps: John WHITALL was a 26 yr old married weaver in 1803 Sharnbrook [see Nigel LUTTs Bedfordshire Musters book]
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John
I dont understand all that 1841 census stuff... they rounded up [or down] your adults ages to the nearest '5' or something?
So that must be where the age discrepancy lies I think? The 1851 [& any subsequent census] would be more accurate I think.
cathy
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Ps: John WHITALL was a 26 yr old married weaver in 1803 Sharnbrook
Cathy, This is most probably Mary Ann's father b 1775 Felmersham who married Elizabeth Brittain in 1798. Regards John
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I'm not so sure about the Baptist church theory now .....
Joseph & Mary married in the Sharnbrook parish church in 1818, (witnesses John & Hezhyibah ? PACEY, if anyone one knows of them ?) & their 5 children were baptised in that parish church between 1819 - 1836 - but still canot find baptism of Joseph :(
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Hi JohnP,
I am also directly related to this tree - the Shoemaker Smiths of Sharnbrook! I have reached the same sticking point as you but I realise you wrote this in 2006 so hope you still are active on here and see it, or somebody else at least!
Did you by any chance get anywhere with tracking down Joseph Smith's baptism record? I have 3 potential brothers for him ,3 of the brothers share the same trade of Shoe maker, the other is a tailor, but no records for any of their baptisms. Mary is seen living with son Joseph in one census and with son Robert in another. Both share the same trade which connects them and Joseph's daughter is living with Uncle Robert at the same time as Mary was there. I believe the 1797 date to be more realistic for Joseph's birth as the 1841 census giving 1801 is suspiciously full of "rounded up" age numbers by the innumerator.
The only record I can find for Mary is potentially Mary Woodens who married William Smith in 1793 at Sharnbrook. I am trying to trace her baptism record as well and their 4 children. There is a William Woods and Mary who had a daughter 1774 in Felmersham which seems a possible match. But who knows? If anyone can help please respond. Many thanks.
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Just wanted to add, spoke to Beds CRO on the phone and by law people had to get married in an Anglican church even if Baptist, so the Baptist theory still may hold true.
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Hi Lesley
Welcome to Rootschat
And, yes, John is still active!
Before 1837 legal marriages had to take place in the Church of England other than Quakers and Jews who were also allowed to conduct marriages.
1841 ages were/should have been rounded down (not up) to the nearest 5 below. So age 40 covered actual ages of 40 to 44, giving a birth range of 1796 to 1801.
I have Wooding/Woodens from Turvey, five miles away, who were non-conformist.
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Thanks so much for the quick reply Bedfordshire boy!
What you say about rounding down would tie in perfectly! The Turvey link sounds worth look into - thanks.
I meant to say that I also have the Whittals John mentioned in my tree too. I am descended from Joseph Smith Shoemaker b. 1799 who married Mary Ann Whittall. But his son William also married an Ann Whittall so a double link!
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And thanks so much for the welcome! :)
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Hello Lesley & welcome to RootsChat.
As David (Beds Boy) says I am still active......!
I have not pursued the Joseph Smith family line since way back then in 2006, however I may take another look knowing there's so much more info been made available online over the last 8 years.
I have other Partridge links to the Whithall family that I will revisit as well.
Cheers John
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Great to make contact John!
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John, I came across some more posts from you I believe on another forum. Did you manage to determine the whereabouts of the church book for the Sharnbrook Old Baptist Church? I am really stuck without the baptism records that prove the link between William Smith and Mary Woodens/ Woodin and their children. There is mention in your posts that you had extracts emailed to you from the book by somebody? You also mention their son Joseph was a deacon. Do you have a source for this?
Thanks
Lesley
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Hi Lesley
This other forum's posting can be found here....
http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-4816.html
This was way back in Nov 2007 and I do not have these emails or any notes in my paperwork that tells me more. However this morning I went to Beds Archives this morning & they have a typed transcript of the Sharnbrook Baptist Chapel Book 1719 to 1838 & onwards? - however it is not indexed, neither is it a total list of people baptised there. By scanning it for half hour or so it tells me that on 16 Jan 1860 Joseph Smith, Deacon died aged 63 after a long & painful illness. Prior to that an entry states that Joseph Smith was baptised April 1840 & chosen as deacon in 1850; that same page has Jethro Whitmee baptised Nov 1841 (he married Joseph's daughter Ann in 1849).
The book lists various other SMITH names; Elizabeth Smith 1771, Charles Smith 2 Feb 1777, William Smith 2 Mar 1777 (both excluded Aug 1780), Clark Smith 7 Nov 1779 & excluded, Ephairam Smith 3 Aug 1786? & William Smith 1 Apr 1798. This date may be when these people were baptised, but the book does not say this, however a later entry has William Smith baptised 2/3/1777 & died Sept? 1835, this could be the William Smith the elder as the book mentions. There is a burial in Sharnbrook dated 25 Aug 1835 of William Smith aged 88 (so born 1747)
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John - thanks you SO much for doing this, that is wonderful. There is so much to digest there and you have really given me a way forward.
That book will def be worth another look. It's a bit of a hike for me as I'm in Oxon, but I think I will have to try and get over to the archives in Bedford some time. I haven't been able to go much beyond stuff I can find online until now.
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Lesley, I've just discovered the source of the Sharnbrook Baptist church book info. It was a contact on Genes Reunited in Nov 2006 who sent me it. She is descended from Ann Smith (daughter of Joseph) who married Jethro Whitmee in 1849. I have just sent her a message with a link to this topic.
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Thank you so much John