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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Herefordshire => England => Herefordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: roadrunner465 on Thursday 26 October 06 02:30 BST (UK)
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I am looking for the birth information for Dennis Robert Jones. Born in Hereford I think
He will killed along with his brother in WW2. The exact date of his birth is not really known
His brothers
Brynley Vincent Jones born 1915 died WW2
Ronald Thomas Jones abt 1916 Died WW2
Dennis Robert Jones 1921 ? From the War death Certificate it states that he was 23 years old? He was presumed dead after his plane was shot down 1-4-1944.
This is the only info I have about him
Clare Elaine Jones 1923
John Rutland Jones 1930
Father Thomas Benjamin Jones born 1888 Wales
Wife: Clare Jones (or Williams) born 1893 Wales.
Any help you can give me would be appreciated
Thanks
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Hi
You can now search the full GRO index yourself free of charge at
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx Choose “Complete BMD Index Ranges & Images 1837-1983
If you only have a dial up internet connection and you live in the UK, you may find it easier to view the same index at your nearest main library as the images take a while to download. If you have broadband, they only take a few seconds
The partially transcribed index (freebmd) can also be searched on the same website or at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com
Copy certificates can be obtained online at www.gro.gov.uk
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Thanks for the info. I am not in the UK and do not have dialup so should be able to try.
Joy
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Can someone find Dennis Robert Jones for me. He was born in Gloucester around 1921. His mothers name was Williams.
I cannot find him anywhere
Thanks
Joy
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Hello Joy
I don't know what records you have tried but the complete birth records are available here:
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
Currently they are free to search, but you need to do one quarter at a time, so it take s while!
If there is a chance that this person is still alive you should try to avoid posting further details that might identify him.
Is there a connection with Herefordshire or should this be on the Gloucestershire board?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Thanks for info. I have tried all BMD Dennis is not alive he was killed in WW2 along with his two brothers
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Hi Joy
Sorry to hear that they were all killed - how tragic!
Have you tried tracing their military records? There might be some next of kin information that would help you.
I wonder if either of his parents married twice? Then he might have been registered under a different name, or with a different mother's maiden name? Have you found his brothers' births?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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in the years 1920-22 there are 7 Dennis R Jones's birth's registered.
So it is really a case of narrowing down which one is yours!
They are:
1920 JFM mothers maidenname Eagles, Basingstoke area
1920 JAS mmn Bradford, Birmingham area
1920 OND mmn Clarke, Nantwich
1921 JFM mmn Beer, Bristol
1921 AMJ mmn Jones, Builth
1921 AMJ mmn Bethel, Worcestor
1922 JAS mmn Reader, Aston.
As Arranroots suggests, if you can also look for births of the brothers, hopefully you will find mother's maiden name is the same as one of these!
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Thanks for the info, but none of the mothers are correct. Their mothers name was Williams. I have gone through many in ancestry but Dennis aludes me.
I have contacted Hereford library to see if they can find anything.
I am going slightly crazy here.
I cannot even find their father Thomas B Jones born around 1888 his is a native of Swansea so I am trying.
Joy
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I still don't understand why you are asking Hereford library if he was born in Gloucester?
Is it possible that his mother was married twice or that he was born before she married, in which case he would be registered as WILLIAMS?
Where have you got his date of birth from?
Do you have his death recorded somewhere?
What were his brothers called?
Hoping to help
A ;)
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Name: Jones, Dennis Robert.
Nationality: United Kingdom.
Rank: Flight Sergeant.
Regiment: RAFVR.
Unit Text: 215 Sqdn.
Date of Death: 01/06/1944.
Service No: 1801507.
Dennis R. JONES F/Sgt. 1801507 215 Sqn 1944 vol 8 pg 228
Brynley Vincent Jones ref H70/115
Ronald Thomas Jones ref H72/5
I have sent for the birth cert of both boys but Dennis aludes me.
Grave/Memorial Reference: Column 434 Singapore Memorial.
Here is the info for Dennis, both of his brothers died in WW2.
All three attended their fathers funeral in Hereford. All three as far as I know were living in Hereford with their mother and father
Thomas B Jones
Clare Jones nee Williams
The Hereford library just sent me the obit of their father, I am not sure why they say Dennis was born in Gloucester.
I got his approx date of birth from his approx date of death which in calculation shows 1921. So this is what I know.
I have his death cert but it shows nothing just that he died in the war.
Their mother was not married twice I have the wedding cert she and Thomas were married in 1914 in Hereford.
Joy
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Thanks for the extra information: it all helps!
Taking a wild guess at the father's middle name, there are at least three Thomas Brynley JONES born 1902/3/4, one of them in Carmarthen area, one Newport, one Cardiff.
What were the other boys birth dates & places? Might help locate Dennis's and/ or a marriage if you don't already have that.
I don't fancy trawling through looking for a 'male' JONES - there will be too many of those!
Still looking...
A ;)
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Rather a lot of Thomas Brinley JONESes too - some of them in Swansea at about the right time for him to be Dennis's father.
A ;)
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Fathers name Thomas Benjamin Jones born I think 1888 1889 from his death info
According to his obit He lived in Clyde House , Edgar Street
Gloucester.
he died at age 46 20th October 1933
His obit said he was a native of Swansea. He left behind a widow, four sons, a daughter and wife. All are dead now. Hence the reason for finding all I can about my family
Thanks
Mothers maiden name Williams, Clare born Glamorgan 1893
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I am sorry to hear that Clare has passed on, I know you wanted to find out more for her.
I searched RC for your earlier threads:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,100844.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,85830.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,68131.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,191382.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,192309.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,188361.0.html - photo of Dennis
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,180267.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,85831.0.html - did you search the directories?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,87080.0.html - did you write to the RAF?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,99773.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,39879.0.html
I see you think Thomas B JONES used more than one name? Where does the name DEMAID come into it?
Clare WILLIAMS was born in c 1893 and had siblings, Aubrey, Rosaline and Olive. Have you found them on any official records?
Here's a summary of the children's information, gleaned from your previous threads:
Dennis Robert JONES 1921
Ronald b 1916
Brynley Vincent 1913-15
Clare Elaine Hereford 1923
John Rutland JONES Hereford 1930
I admit I haven't gone through the BMDs looking for Dennis, but others have, so it seems we need to think of more devious approaches! It could be that he was not baptised with the name that he used later in life. I am also curious about the spread of the children's ages.
A ;)
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I have since discovered that Demaid was the name of his Grt Grandfather who was a sea captain. He changed his name to Jones because of the Anti ( foreign) attitude at that time.
There is not that much difference in the ages, the only thing I could think of was the father was away at war and when he came home Clare became pregnant. I have no way of outguessing their relationship.
yes, I did all the things that you suggested.
Searched historical directories, wrote to the airforce, placed many adds, in various websites, searched ancestry, searched and sent for the death certs, wrote to the world for more info, so now I am closer than before, but Dennis is difficult. I am waiting for the birth certs of the other boys, received the birth cert of their mother, found the wedding of Clares parents, so I am not sitting at home idle
Joy
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Have you checked for Dennis's birth with the surname DEMAID just inc ase?
;)
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Yes, but this is not an option. He died a Jones, joined the airforce as a Jones, received death cert as a Jones, attended his fathers funeral as a Jones so no way would he be a demaid.
His brother John told me that Dennis was a Jones so this is what I know
Joy
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It is rather difficult to join your search without knowing all the things you have already tried. It is easier to ask. I can understand why you didn't post them all at once at the beginning of the thread though! ;)
It is certainly a shame that you have not made any progress with Dennis, since he obviously existed.
Have you any ideas about how we might help?
A ;)
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No,
I do not believe that anyone can help at Roots at this time.
Each time I have posted I have learn't something. I await the birth cert of his brothers. I also placed a note that I am looking for Dennis, so hopefully Hereford will find something.
I have learned a great deal since I started. I found someone who was also in the 215 sqdn. I have also found someone who contacted Swansea for me.
I will find Dennis because I never give up. The boys need to be remembered because they all died for their country.
They are all listed in the Commonwealth War Graves, they are also remembered in the Roll of Honor. I have fought for this and will not end until I know that someone knows they existed.
Thanks for your help
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good for you, Joy - I'm sure you WILL find him.
I expect you already have these dates but I have found some of his siblings:
OND 1914 Brynley V (Hereford)
Ronald - several with Mum's maiden name Williams in 1916, none in Hereford I saw
OND 1923 Claire E. S. (Hereford)
OND 1930 John R (Hereford)
They seemed to go for winter babies!
But at least that shows that the mum's maiden name and the place of birth is consisitent.
So - what name was Dennis registered in? Unfortunaley the surname Jones with mums maiden name Williams is a popular combination!
I believe I did look for Robert Dennis before.
Will keep thinking!
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It does seem as though the birth certificates might help your search.
If you want to post the details on this thread when they arrive we will do our best to be of assistance.
Meanwhile if you think of anything else, put that here too! :)
I can find lots of DEMAIN births in Glamorgan in the 1920s, so there must be a connection somewhere.
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Thanks, not sure what OND means. As soon as the birth certs come I will post them. I did not think I could post birth certs, for some reason I have had problems.
OND 1914 Brynley V (Hereford)
Ronald - several with Mum's maiden name Williams in 1916, none in Hereford I saw
Birth cert should come at any time hopefully
OND 1923 Claire E. S. (Hereford) Their sister whos was called Silvery She also died last year within a few months of John Rutland Jones.
OND 1930 John R (Hereford) their last son who passed away last year with cancer. I am presently looking for his service records, but not easy without a number
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oK, I thought, ther's nothing for it but to go through all Jones births in 1921 (and possibly a year or two each way!!), looking for those in Hereford, and then seeing if any had maiden name Williams, and seeing what sort of choice I ended up with!!
Well - as predicted there are pages of Joneses. I have only done Jan/Feb/Mar qtr up to the page which ends with Howard Jones, and now hubby wants the computer.
I will do some more another time, but if anyone else gets the urge to do a batch then just post here where you get up to!
None found, by the way, in those pages I did.
(Sorry OND short for Oct/Nov/Dec)
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Thanks, not sure what OND means. As soon as the birth certs come I will post them. I did not think I could post birth certs, for some reason I have had problems.
OND is the third quarter of the year - October, November and December.
You can't post images of the birth certs on a look-up board, but you can transcribe the details here.
I hope that helps
A ;)
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I am sure I have posted this at least twice now.
he was baptised as Robert Dennis Jones.
He was born 14th March 1921 and his birth certificate is available from Hereford Register Office
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I had not seen this before, you posted a personal message for the two brothers but this was all there was.
Thanks for your effort
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Wow - well that has saved me a job!
The GRO entry for this chap is in JanFebMar 1921, Newport H area (not Hereford, I note, so I would not have found it via my method!) ref 11a 507.
Hopefully you can now get this cert to complete your set.
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Hi thanks for the info. Not sure this is the person. I have always known him as Dennis Robert Jones. His death cert shows Dennis Robert. His service Record shows Dennis Robert. I shall send for the birth cert though
Thanks
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Well done EBN!
I can't find your original post - maybe you PMed it?
Nevertheless, it has to be worth a go!
:D
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There is a Robert D. Jones born Hereford 1921, registered Apr/May/June qtr
GRO ref: 1921 June qtr. Hereford vol. 6a page 956
Mother's maiden surname Williams
This would be the one EBN found ;)
Susan :)
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Yes, this looks like my uncle. I only knew him as Dennis Robert Jones.
Does this mean I can order through the GRO, or do I have to contact Hereford by post which takes time, as there is no online function
Thanks for your effort
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Yes you can order through the GRO
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Certificates are taking 7/10 days from the GRO.
Susan :)
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I am still having problems finding Brynley Vincent Jones. For some recent Registers office in Herefordshire giving me hassles, sent the letter back three times.
I have managed to find Ronald at the GRO born Jan/Feb March 1917.
Dennis born 1921
I would think Brynley would be in between, but I cannot find him. If anyone can find him I would appreciate it.
I looked at Brynleys Death Cert. It said he was 30 when he died in 1945 which means he would have been born 1915. I have gone through all 1915 1916 BMD, but cannot find him yet.
Parents married Mary 1914 so from 1915 to 1920 is up for Grabs,
Thanks for your time and effort
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Brynley Jones ref H70/115
Ronald ref H72/5
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Really pleased that our efforts helped you find Dennis' birth registration.
Regards
Susan :)
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Susan
I forgot to ask. Where did you find this reg? I looked everywhere. I tried A. BMD, anything else I could think of, but no luck. The census only went to 1901, so I am doing something wrong. If you have any tips where I might search for future family records please give me a heads up.
Again thanks
Joy
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Hello Joy
The birth registration was from the GRO index, free to search at
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
Once EBN had given the birth date of 14th March 1921, I looked at the next quarter (Apr/May/Jun) as his birth was halfway through the month!
Susan :)
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Thanks for the info. I belong to A, but never seem to have much luck. I am now looking for Thomas B Jones, but will find him if I keep plugging.
I have already sent for the Birth Certs for the boys
thanks for your time and effort
Joy
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I do love happy endings - well done Susan!
:)
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The ending will not be happy until I find Thomas B Jones, father Thomas Swansea 1887 but hopefully will in time.
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Now that we are involved, please will you post the birth certificate transcriptions here? We'd like to see what they say.
It might not yet be an ending, but we can have a spot of happiness along the way...
;)
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No problem as soon as they arrrive. My sister said that she received notice that there were 5 in the family which means that she has to submit again
So, all takes time.
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Are there any likely candidates from Thomas B aged 4 and his father Thomas n Swansea on the 1891 Census ?
As Thomas B was a dentist, his father will have had a good job. Perhaps there may be a clue there.
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Thanks for the info. His father was The manager of a Tin plate works. I cannot seem to find him anywhere.
Can you give me the info for Thomas B.
Born 1887, he went to school and studied on his own.
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There certainly was a tin plate works near Swansea, and I can see a Thomas Jones aged 26 working in a tin plate works as a boarder wih a family called Williams on the 1881 Census in Llanelli . it says he was born in Swansea.
Can anyone find Thomas in 1891 ????
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Thomas B Jones married Clare William in Hereford. It is possible that he met part of the family there.
It would be wonderful if he were found.
I received a copy of his obit. This might help find him because it mentions his brothers
Funeral of the late Mr T.B Jones Dentist
The funeral of T.B Jones of Clyde house , Edgar Street Hereford whose Sudden death at Gloucester was reported last week in the Hereford Times.
The chief mourners were:- Messrs Brindley, Donald and Dennis Jones ( sons): Messrs J. I Jones ( brothers); Mr J Edgar ( brother in law) and Mr A Edgar.
The late Mr Jones appeared to be in is usual health but had a stroke and died shortly afterwards. He was 44 years old( his death said 46 years old and he died in 1933 which means he was born in 1887, although a native of Swansea he spent most of his life in Hereford, He leaves a widow, one daughter and fours sons. Mr Jones served in the Great War. in which he suffered the loss of one leg and the partial loss of another.
I thought his might help
Today, I went through most Thomas Jones at family search org but could not find one who worked in the Tin plate factory. He must be somewhere.
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Have you posted on the Glamorgan site so he people with expert local knowledge can tell you where the various tin plate works were near to Swansea ?
I realise the one I found is Llanelli which is Carmarthenshire but very close by.
It is worth a try and someone will surely find Thomas senior with little Thomas aged about 4 and the brothers too perhaps on the 1901 census.
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Thanks so much for your kindness. He has to be somewhere.
No, I have not must have misread your email. I thought that you had done it. Will do.
Joy
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I am still having problems finding Brynley Vincent Jones. For some recent Registers office in Herefordshire giving me hassles, sent the letter back three times.
I have managed to find Ronald at the GRO born Jan/Feb March 1917.
Dennis born 1921
I would think Brynley would be in between, but I cannot find him. If anyone can find him I would appreciate it.
I looked at Brynleys Death Cert. It said he was 30 when he died in 1945 which means he would have been born 1915. I have gone through all 1915 1916 BMD, but cannot find him yet.
Parents married Mary 1914 so from 1915 to 1920 is up for Grabs,
Thanks for your time and effort
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To save anyone else looking, Roadrunner now has the GRO birth registration details for Brynley Vincent Jones.
Susan :)
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Susan sent for Birth Certs and also WW1 Medals, so lots of progress made. Now Thomas B Jones. He will be found.
Again thanks for time and effort.
I am still waiting for one birth cert to arrive, Robert Dennis Jones. The GRO found it, but are having problems with their postal server. Would you believe?
Joy