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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: lostnconfused on Monday 05 February 07 12:04 GMT (UK)
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After many months of hard graft we think we have found my GM's birth, the mystery seems to be that she has no father on her B/Cert as that is blank!
What does this say and what does it mean?
It was entered into Mothers Name/Maiden name of the B/Cert
Help!
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Hi lostnconfused,
I read it as
Ellen Barnes
Collar Ring Piecer
of Fields Fold Chadderton
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Why would they mention anything to do with occupation?
I assume that is because of a lack of father?
Andy
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Hi,
Please see description below from index of old occupations:
Piecer / Piecener Employed to piece together broken threads in weaving. Often children.
hope this helps, too.
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Well done, Tati, beat me to it.
The one bit I wasn't sure of was Collar; I was confused by the plus sign in front of it (and the fact that the father apparently wasn't listed) and was thinking it might be the father's name, Colin (or something like that) Ring. But I guess collar ring piecer would be the sort of job some poor soul might have in the cotton industry around Manchester.
I agree on the address.
Gareth
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The address is more precisely recorded:
Piecer of 6
Fields Fold
Chadderton
The squiggle after Chadderton is unclear to me, but might be something like "USD" for Urban Sanitary District.
Stovepipe
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Why would they mention anything to do with occupation?
I assume that is because of a lack of father?
Andy
Hi Andy
The only birth certificate I have for an illegitimate birth also gives mother's occupation so I guess that must be it
Jan ;)
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"Married women never apparently had an occupation! Being a wife and mother was all the occupation they were allowed. This was not altered until the late 1980's after a threatened legal action, when women were finally allowed to have an occupation shown against their name and only in the last few years has there been a dedicated space for a mother's occupation. However, mothers of illegitimate children had an occupation shown - one of the few compensations for finding illegitimacy."
from this excellenet site
http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/indexbd.htm
Cheers Jan
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She may have worked in a shirt factory. The old collarless shirts were known as ring collars. she may have put together the collar rings (to which a separate stiff collar was sometimes attached with studs).
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I read it as
Ellen Barnes f Collin
Ring Piecer of Fields Fold Chadderton
and assumed it was f for formerly.
There is a marriage for a Raymond J Barnes to Ellen Collin 1913, Liverpool. Don't know if that has any connection.
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Hi,
Please see description below from index of old occupations:
Piecer / Piecener Employed to piece together broken threads in weaving. Often children.
hope this helps, too.
And as there is a sort of spinning machine called a Ring Spinning machine she was probably acting as piecer for this
see
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/q-r.html#R
I agree it is Collin not collar and thus probably a former name
Jan ;)
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Thanks for the feedback its really useful.
The interesting side to this is that Annie (my GM) was always very secretive about her family and maybe this is why.
We do have her father named as James Barnes on the Marriage Cert but that doesnt preclude this being an avenue of interest, or does it?
Andy
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It most likely says Cotton Ring Piecer ie The person who would piece the cotton together when it snapped as it was being spun onto rings in the Ring Room of a cotton mill.
6 Fields Fold, Chadderton UD (it was an Urban District of Oldham until the 1970's).
Sheila
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1901 census has this family
6 Fields Fold, Chadderton
Wm Barnes,head,m,40,general labourer,London,Croydon
Ann Ellen ditto,wife,m,33,Lancs,Oldham
Ellen ditto,dau,12,ditto
George A ditto,son,10,Lancs,Chadderton
Annie ditto,dau,5,ditto
Frederick ditto,son,3,ditto
Mary A ditto,dau,1,ditto
RG13/3822 fol 150 page 28
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And 1891
No 6 Field Fold
Thomas Barns,head,m,30,watchman cotton mill,Devon,Newton Abbott
Mary ditto,wife,30
RG12/3316 folio 145 page 15
Next page, next household
Field Fold
No 5 Private
William Barns,head,m,29,stocker at cotton mill,Surrey,Croyden
AnnElen ditto,wife,m,24,Lancs,Oldham
Ellen ditto,dau,2,Lancs,Chadderton
George ditto,son,4m,Lancs,Chadderton
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You may already have this but just in case. There is a marriage in 1889 for:
William Henry Barnes & Ann Ellen Ashworth at St Mary's Oldham, March Quarter 1889. Vol 8d Page 665
Sheila