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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: tigces on Saturday 10 February 07 14:27 GMT (UK)
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Between an idiot and an imbecile?
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Idiot: A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers.
Imbecile: A person of moderate to severe mental retardation having a mental age of from three to seven years and generally being capable of some degree of communication and performance of simple tasks under supervision.
Both terms belong to a classification system no longer in use.
meles
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So basically when you see someone marked of as an idiot on the census they're worse than an imbecile - I would have assumed it was the other way round, I guess because we do tend to bandy around the word idiot in converstion more than imbecile, of course neither should be used.
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Right on both counts, tigces!
meles
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The exact definitions of terms such as 'lunatic', 'imbecile', 'idiot' and 'feeble-minded' are extremely problematic. According to the 1881 Census Report;
No accurate line of demarcation can be drawn between the several conditions indicated by these terms. Speaking generally, however, the term idiot is applied in popular usage simply to those who suffer from congenital mental deficiency, and the term imbecile to persons who have fallen in later life into a state of chronic dementia. But it is certain that neither this nor any other definite distinction between the terms was rigorously observed in the schedules, and consequently no attempt has been made by us to separate imbeciles from idiots. The term lunatic also is used with some vagueness, and probably some persons suffering from congenital idiocy, and many more suffering from dementia, were returned under this name.
Considering that householders, who could be illiterate, were being asked to give information about medical disabilities without any definition of the terms being used the answers should be treated with caution. Also they would be unwilling to admit that anyone in the family had medical disabilities.
When ‘feeble-minded’ was substituted for ‘idiot’ in the 1901 census the number of persons recorded with mental disability rose markedly, because, apparently the former term was considered much less derogatory than the latter.
Some terms do have a formal definition in the UK although they are no longer used :
Term Idiot IQ 0 to 25 Modern term Severe learning disability
Imbecile 25 to 50 Moderate learning disability
Feeble minded (moron) 50 to 70 Mild learning disability
Those with an IQ of less than 50 usually need care throughout life and are unlikely to educable in the formal sense.
Stan
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Just my experience on the 1901 census - but my paternal great grandfather appeared to be classified Imbecile/Feeble-minded.
Quite a shock because in later years he sold insurance and became president of the local golf club.
When I later subscribed to Ancestry and was then able to scroll through the pages, the enumerator has repeatedly marked everyone born outside the county in the same way!!
Pels ;D
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When I later subscribed to Ancestry and was then able to scroll through the pages, the enumerator has repeatedly marked everyone born outside the county in the same way!!
Pels ;D
How had they been marked? According to the instructions the words had to be writen in i.e.
(1) Deaf and Dumb
(2) Blind
(3) Lunatic
(4) Imbecile, feeble-minded
Stan
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When I later subscribed to Ancestry and was then able to scroll through the pages, the enumerator has repeatedly marked everyone born outside the county in the same way!!
Pels ;D
How had they been marked? According to the instructions the words had to be writen in i.e.
(1) Deaf and Dumb
(2) Blind
(3) Lunatic
(4) Imbecile, feeble-minded
Stan
The number 4 had been written in the column Stan - when I first saw this I thought it implied Imbecile/Feeble-minded.
Pels :)
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A strange enumerator :)
Stan
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I have ggrandmother marked as imbecile on 1891 census when she was 60+. Before that she was just listed as wife and in 1901 I think I have her in an asylum.
I think in this case it might refer to dementia/Alzheimers.
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Just my experience on the 1901 census - but my paternal great grandfather appeared to be classified Imbecile/Feeble-minded.
Quite a shock because in later years he sold insurance and became president of the local golf club.
When I later subscribed to Ancestry and was then able to scroll through the pages, the enumerator has repeatedly marked everyone born outside the county in the same way!!
Pels ;D
I think you are confusing the marks made by someone counting the number of people born outside the county for statistical purposes with marks made by the original enumerator. These sorts of marks occur on all census returns and are a continuous source of problems for genealogists.
David
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Just my experience on the 1901 census - but my paternal great grandfather appeared to be classified Imbecile/Feeble-minded.
Quite a shock because in later years he sold insurance and became president of the local golf club.
When I later subscribed to Ancestry and was then able to scroll through the pages, the enumerator has repeatedly marked everyone born outside the county in the same way!!
Pels ;D
I think you are confusing the marks made by someone counting the number of people born outside the county for statistical purposes with marks made by the original enumerator. These sorts of marks occur on all census returns and are a continuous source of problems for genealogists.
David
Could we have the census reference so we can see the pages?
Stan