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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: wileman 121 on Sunday 18 February 07 20:12 GMT (UK)
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hi i am hoping someone can help me
my grandma was Jean Morton i think she was born in nuneaton i know she died in 1998 and i think she was only 48 years old but im not sure
could someone please check this out for me
many thanks in anticipation regards Wileman 121 :)
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Hi
If you could give us her married name - it is easier to check a death in 1998 to confirm how old she was before starting to go through the birth records
Debbie
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she was born Jean morton i believe to Doris May Morton nee Gilliver
she married my grandfather Malcolm John Wileman im not sure when but i would love to find that out as well it would be in nuneaton around the 1960's
she left my grandfather and married a man by the name of Derek Smedley they probrably married about 25 - 30 years ag but again im not sure when they married so she would be Jean Smedley when she passed away
regards Wileman 121
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Hi :)
According to the death indexes she was born 20th July 1948 - and died in 1998 Boston registration district Lincolnshire
Debbie
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Hmmm I have just tried to check the birth indexes for her birth registration and I can't find it under Morton in 1948 - I have checked the whole year
:-\
Debbie
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that is most odd so if she were born jean morton she would certainly be in the index ? or is that not always the case regards Jason
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Hi Jason,
Won't it be easier to find out if you are to obtain her death certificate to find out where she was born in? Or to get two of her marriage certs to see her maiden name she may have born with?
The death certificate will list her birth date and birthplace--the information is only good if the informant knew her. I am not sure if it list her maiden name as well.
The marriage certificates will be little more reliable because your grandmother, herself, gave the information--it will shows her maiden name and her father's name which will help you in identifying a correct birth certificate and her age.
Another possible avenue would be to ask your grandmother's living relatives or your parents. Surely, they would know something about your grandmother.
Also, you can look at your parent's birth certificate to see if it shows your grandmother's maiden name.
Hope this suggestion helps a bit! Wish you the best of luck and every success in finding information on your grandmother.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Marriage:
Apr/May/JUn 1966
Malcolm J Wileman, to Jean Moreton Nuneaton area ref 9c 1735
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birth:
Jul/Aug/Sep 1948
Jean Moreton
Nuneaton area ref 9c 1518
mums maiden name Gilliver
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You got there just before me Liz :)
Debbie
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Good detective work, Liz!!
I am sure that Jason would be thrilled with your findings!
:)
Best wishes,
Tees
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thank you all so much so i will order them straight away regards Jason :)
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Great minds think alike... Debbie
Not having so much success with her second marriage. Have looked 1975-83, and then '83 onwards on the database, fora marriage of a Jean Wileman, not found one.
Perhaps even further back than 1975 (that's 32 yrs, Wileman121 thought 25 - 30) p'raps I'll look thru a few more
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Liz - it might be worth trying under Smedley - they might have mistakenly indexed it under her maiden name instead of her first married name - I've known it happen
Debbie
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That was going to be my next move, Debbie! as I have now gone back to 1973 with no Wileman marrying a Smedley.
I had just began to wonder if she had reverted to using her maiden name and married in that name.
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i remember my gt grandma wileman telling me malcolm john wileman my grandfather moved back to nuneaton in 1970 so it could be any time from 1969 onwards i suppose ?
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Got it!
Apr/May/Jun 1971
Derrick Smedley to Wileman, Nuneaton area, ref 9c 2297
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thank you sooooo much that has helped me so much i was spelling moreton wrong the whole time i thought it was morton but you found it was moreton in a matter of minutes ;D
would it be possible to find the marriage and birth of her parents
marriage i think her father was Bill Moreton im not sure weather bill was short for william ?
jeans mother was Doris May Gilliver thew would have married around the time jean was born if not a little before
i think doris may moreton nee gilliver died around 1993 - 1997 thanks jason :)
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Hmmm
found a marraige for Muriel F Gilliver to Victor D Morton (no 'e') in
Oc/Nov/Dec 1947, Nottinghhm ref 3c 1058
Possible, though the names dont agreewith what you have.
If you are sending for her birth cert that should confirm her parents names
I'll look a few more years to see if there is another Gilliver/Moreton marriage
by the way- you can look yourself on
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
It is all free! Just choose the full option and go through year by year and quarter by quarter!
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OK, forget that one!
There is a marriage of Doris M Gilliver to William Moreton in Jul/Au/SEp 1944, Nuneaton area ref 6d 1593
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Re Doris May Moreton's death
After 1984 the death indexes are on a database system, and it throws up 4 possibles
see
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&gsfn=Doris+May&gsln=Moreton&=&f6=&f7=&f12=&f13=&f3=&f4=&rg_f5__date=&rs_f5__date=0&gskw=&prox=1&db=onsdeath93&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gl=&gss=mp-onsdeath93&gst=&so=3
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hi thank you verry much she died in 1994 and it was boston county hospitle she died so that is the correct one
she is buried in hogsthorpe cemetery
thank you verry much for all of your help regards jason ;D
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So, we can now find her birth:
Jul/Au/Sep quarter 1919 Doris M Gilliver, mums maiden name Careton, Nuneaton area ref 6d 1097
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that also helps mothers maiden name careton and i do know from what my father has told me that doris may gillivers mum was killed in about 1966-1970
he was verry young when it happend but he says her name would be HILDA MAY and now we know her maiden name was Careton it was Hilda May Careton so we need to find a hilda may careton that married a gilliver around 1919 in nuneaton ;D
i have been searching for this info for the past year and a half before today i didnt even know my grandma and gt grandmas date of birth
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Here's the marriege. it is actually CURETON
Hilda M Cureton to Thomas Gilliver, O/N/D 1918, Bristol area ref, I think, 6a 206, but not very clear.
Getting this cert would give father's names and then you might find them on 1901 census!
I havent looked for other Gilliver/Cureton children to see if Doris had siblings. That would be another path to follow.
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t doris may gillivers mum was killed in about 1966-1970
I have looked 1963-73 (inc) for death of a Hilda May Gilliver, but no joy.
Was hoping to get an age at death, or d-o-b for her, so you could then look for her birth (Cureton)
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hi liz your help has been brill i couldnt have found this without you
1 more thing how would i go about finding if doris had any siblings ?
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We found Doris born 1919, and her parents marriage end of 1918, so it is likely that she is the eldest.
So it is a case of going through the birth indexes qurter by quarter from, say 1920 onwards looking for births of Gilliver's to see if any have the mother's maiden name as Cureton.
Your family is such fun to look for, because the names are suffuciently unusual that any we find are likely to be the right ones!! It isnt do rewarding looking for Smiths with mums maiden name Jones, for example, as there are pages of possibilities!!!
The link, that I did give before, but here it is again is:
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
Choose the complete version, births.
Then just enter Gilliver, and 1920, and look through the 4 quarters for that year, then enter 1921 and do the same etc.
If it says there aren't any for any quarter, dont believe it. Try a name in the alphabet nearby, and then scroll through the pages by using the green arrows at the top, till you get to Gilliver in the alphabetical list.
Happy hunting!
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just thinking i have really got back into this side of the family now and it might give me a better idea of birth dates if someone has acess to the nuneaton burial records on cd
it might tell you how old the person was when they passed away
William Moreton would almost definately be buried in nuneaton and i dont think my grandma had any brothers or sisters so he would have passed away between 1949 and 1967 i think
again Thomas Gilliver wwould have passed away in Nuneaton but not entirely sure of what year?
hilda may Gilliver nee Cureton would have passed away between 1964 and 1971 this one i am really interested in as family rumour has it my grandfather killed her when he was drunk one night and arguing with my grandmother when hilda steped in the middle he pushed her face to the ground :o
hope you can help
thanks regards Jason :)
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Hi Jason
I don't think you will get a Nuneaton burial CD for events that recent - the one I have seen only goes up to 1850, but you can search national death registers that do give ages using the same link Liz gave you above - you will have to go through them quarter by quarter in the same way as for the births
:)
Debbie
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just looked and cant find any of the deaths ...looks like it is a 119 mile trip to nuneaton some time soon then :) should be an interesting trip lol
i have had a quick look with what resources i have for hilda may cureton born around 1895 i would have thought but have had no luck as of yet.
please feel free to have a quick browse as many of you on this board know alot more about genealogy than i do ;)
regards Jason
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hilda may Gilliver nee Cureton would have passed away between 1964 and 1971
but Jason - I have already looked 63-73 and no death registered for a Hilda Gilliver
Can try a few more years in either direction for you (or you can look) but, as Debbie said in her post, the death indexes are theplace to look.
By the way - what info have you found that gives you an idea tha Hilda Cureton was born about 1895? That's one of the things I was trying to find out by finding her death registration!!
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Now looked back to 1960 and in to 1975, still no death for Hilda Gilliver.
So, either the date range is wrong or the name is wrong. One thing is for sure - she did die sometime!
Possibilities include -
a)she separated from Mr G and reverted to her maiden name.
b) she married someone else and died with a completey different surname
c) It is mis-recorded, and is under Gulliver, or something similar
d) some other reason that we haven't thought of!
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Looked '64 - '71 under Gulliver, no success
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On the 1901 free census lookup:
There is a May Cureton, aged 4 , born Worcester Bromsgrove, Birmingham,
May Cureton, aged 9, born London Camberwell, Lambeth
Could her parents have relocated after her birth?
Beth
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going back to Hilda's birth - I have found the registration in the index ..........
but I am going to be REALLY mean to you Jason and not post it here till you have had a look yourself and see if you can get it, because it will be good practice for you in using the indexes!!!
If you get stuck, do ask, I want to help you get them mastered becuase I know from experience that the indexes are vital tools to the Family historian
but just think - once her birth is established the next step will be to look up the family in the 1901 census! If you do not have access, then I would start a new post for that in the 'look up requests' section.
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Looks like Beth is one step ahead!!
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:o liz i cant believe it lol you have found it
i will have a go and ry and find it but if i cant pleeeese could you tell me :-[
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course I will!
But have a go yourself first
click on the link I gave you
Then click on Full Index, and Births
then enter Cureton, under surname, and 1895 in the year
It will come up with details of the 4 pages for the four quarters of that year.
Click on ., and you will see the page in the birth indexes that any Curetons will be on, it is just a straightforward alphabetical list, so you can look through it for anyone of interest.
Click on the back button, to go back to the four quarters, and try the next quarter
if not success in 1895, then try say, 1894, then 1896, then 1893, then 1897, gradually moving out from the year you thought etc..
CLUE - you wont have to do many years!!
come back and ask if you get stuck
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wow i just guessed that she would be born in 1895
so i take it that would be a gud guess then ? ;D
just going to look now
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hi its me ;D is it Hilda May Cureton born june 1896 in the district of Barton ?
please tell me i am right
regards Jason
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??? just thinking isnt bristol where you said she married and barton the district she was born quite a way apart ?
also i have found a thomas gilliver born in 1895 in nuneaton would it be a safe bet to say this is who hilda may cureton married ?
regards jason
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HI Jason
There was over 20 yearts between her birth and marriage and people did travel quite a way for jobs in those days.Don't forget they'd had a world war in the middle of those dates too,so that meant they'd often have to go farther afield to look for jobs.
So don't discount either place,till you've seen some certs to back up the info.
Although the surname Gilliver is fairly unusual,you cannot say for certain that the Thomas you've found is the right one- but he does sound alikely candidate.
Meanwhile I'll see if I can find Hilda's death- it sounds an interesting story about your grandad having killed her.......but don't forget rumours are often proved to be untrue.
Regards
Carol
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A Thomas Gilliver died in Nuneaton in the Sept 1/4 of 1956 he was 60.
The ref number is 9c page 1032 incase you wanted to order the cert.
Liz is right the surname is a breeze- you wait till you get Brown to look up in your tree 8)
Carol
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thats great so thomas died in 1956
the reason i thought that hilda gilliver died between 1964 and 1971 is because they are roughly the years that my grandparents were together so i assumed they split because my grandfather killed her grandma.
it is a story that so many family members have told me i almost would like to find out it isnt true so they can stop calling my grandad a murderer ???
maybe hildas death could be registered unser hildagar ?
anythings worth a try at the moment
regards jason :)
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Why Hildagar?
I'm in the middle of checking to see if she re-married after Thomas's death in 1956.........will be back to you soon ;D
Carol
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Now looked back to 1960 and in to 1975, still no death for Hilda Gilliver.
So, either the date range is wrong or the name is wrong. One thing is for sure - she did die sometime!
Possibilities include -
a)she separated from Mr G and reverted to her maiden name.
b) she married someone else and died with a completey different surname
c) It is mis-recorded, and is under Gulliver, or something similar
d) some other reason that we haven't thought of!
Liz,and others ;D
I have checked from 1957 to 1971 and Hilda Gilliver did NOT re marry(after Thomas's death) during that time.
Will be back later- unless Liz gets here before me!
Carol
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sorry silly me i think of all the posibilities like was she hilda or hildagar ;D
i suppose we could see if she died after 1971 :-\ which could proove that my grandfather did not kill her
apparently as he came home drunk one night and had an argument with my grandma hilda tried to stop the argument and grandad apparently grabbed her head and smashed it into the concrete
1 week later she died of gangrene infection due to the cuts she suffered from the accident
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YEEEHAAAAA- found her ;D
Hilda May GILLIVER died in Nuneaton in Sept 1/4 of 1979.
Her DOB was 1st May 1897- the ref for ordering the cert(which will tell you the cause of death,whether there was an inquest and who the informant was) is Volume 31 page 0147
You can order it online for £7 at http://www.findmypast.com/OrderCertificate.jsp
See I knew we'd do it Liz ;)
Jason you can search all the 1837-2004 BMD indexes for yourself for free at http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
Make sure you choose the Complete BMD Index ranges & Images 1837-1983 option.
Carol
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thank you verry much carol you and the other rootschatters have done what it has taken me 2 years to do and that is find the birth and death dates of my gt grandparents and also i didnt know who hilda cureton married so i have an new name to put to my tree ;D
the only problem i have had now is i have had a look and have posted another thread but neither attempts have worked
i cant find hilda may cureton in the 1901 census :'( yet another wall
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Crumbs... I take an afternoon off (due to visit of LIVING rellies!) and come back and find so much has happened!!!!
Firstly, well done Jason, looks like you got the hang of the registers. That is the birth I found too. I know it is a different area, but the name is so unusual I am pretty sure it will be her.
But as Carol reminded you, most entries found in the indexes really need backing up by getting certificates.
And WELL DONE Carol for finding Hilda's death (whoever registered death was one year out with her birth) - now that is a cert worth getting, Jason, to find her actual cause of death and put right any family rumours. Looks like she lived to a ripe old age of eighty something, and her hubby had died years before, so could not have contributed to her death.
But, next step - get some certs ( Like Hilda's death) to confirm what we have got.
Hida's birth cert will give her parents.
Beth found a possibilty on 1901 census, under May Cureton - you can check that out if you have confirmed her parents.
And you will be well away! As you get further back I would start a new thread if you need look ups for any previous censuses.
But I guess that this thread is now well and truly completed! just to remind us all, it started with looking for the birth of a Jean Moreton who died in 1998...........and ends with her grandmother Hilda born in 1896!
What a team - but all so simple really. You on to the harder stuff now, Jason!
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what a great thread
without the census records we have gone back three generations.
well i hope you enjoyed your time away liz ;D
mmm i wonder when william moreton died ;D lol
im sure it would be nuneaton possibly when my grandmother was yound i bet he died in the 50's
ill have a look
once again thank you all for your efforts
i think this thread got the most replies in the warwickshire section :)
such a great bunch of people
many thanks
regards Jason ( Wileman 121 )
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dont sign this one off as 'Completed' yet- we all want Jason to post the info when he does get Hilda's death cert as to what she did die of.
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i will let you all know as soon as it gets here :)
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have orderd hildas birth cert the other day hopefully it will get here soon !
i am having problems ordering hildas seath cert online as she died in 1979 less than 50 years ago who would i have to write to to get a copy of her death cert ?
nuneaton registry office perhaps ? hope you can help
regards Wileman 121
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Never heard of this being a problem before - I have ordered certs on line for recent deaths with no difficulty.
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when i tried to order the cert it said we do not accept orders online for births marriages or deaths in the last 50 years i will try again many thanks wileman 121
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I've bought 4 death certs from 1980s -2003 online from GRO without any problems.
Good luck,
Nanny Jan
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I have only just seen this thread. I thought that you might like some tips if you are going to start tracing the Gilliver line back. My granny was a Gilliver born in Nuneaton.
If you decide that Thomas Gilliver born Nuneaton 1895 is the one you are looking for then have a look at my rootschat website. My family tree contains his birth although I've not traced his marriage so I can't say whether he's your Gilliver or not.
Most of the parish records here in Nuneaton clearly show the name spelt Gilliver although on one of my marriage records the bride's name was spelt by the parish clerk as Gilliver but she signed Jilliver.
The family originated in Polesworth and cousins kept in touch well into the 20th Century. Some of them also lived just over the county border in Leicestershire. If you are not local you may need to know that Nuneaton sits just to the south of the A5 (Watling Street) Leicestershire is on the otherside but there are peculiarities. For instance some of my Gilliver's lived in Higham on Hill which is in Leicestershire county but Nuneaton is the closest town and registration area. Polesworth can be even more complicated because it sits where Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Staffordshire and Derbyshire all meet.
I have lots of other info - too much to put here, but pm me if you want details. Oh and if you are really stuck I could always look at the parish records in the local library for you.
Kate
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just got hilda May cureton's birth cert today and she was born 36 salisbury street district of st Georges Gloucestershire and was the daughter of Albert William Cureton Gen labourer born 1869 his father John Cureton born in 1845 plymouth would it be possible for someone to look in the earlier census records for john in 1851 and 1861
hope you can help regards
Jason
p.s now to get on to the death cert :)
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Have had to re-read this thread as it's been a while ;)
You sound as thiough you are running before you can walk Jason........have you already traced the family from 1901 backwards then?
Is that how you know that Albert's dad was called John?
Will take a look for them now.
Carol
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Here are the Cureton's in 1881- so we've got some sort of starting point.
All kids born St George's Gloucester.
John CURETON Head 36 Plymouth Colliery Fire Man
Sarah J. CURETON Wife 39 Trowbridge, Wiltshire,
Samuel J. CURETON Son 14 Gardeners Labourer
Albert W. CURETON Son 12 Scholar
John H. CURETON Son 10 Scholar
William R. CURETON Son 5 Scholar
Sarah A. CURETON Daur 3
Hannah J Cureton daur 3 mths
Living at 6 Howard St Bristol St George, Gloucester,
RG11/2492 folio 119 Page 10
Carol
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In 1871 they are at Crofts End, St George Gloucester
John Cureton head 26 carter b Plymouth Devon
Sarah J wife 29 b Trowbridge Wilts
Samuel son 5
Albert son 3
John W son 4mths
All kids born St George's.
RG10/2555 folio 10 page 12
Carol
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In 1861 they are at, " house in a field" ;D Crofts End Rd, St George's, Glos.
The writing on the census is not too clever-sorry.
Philip Cureton head mar 51 out pensioner of groom something(can anyone help here?) born Hanbury Herefordshire
Sarah wife mar 54 b North foton? Devon
John son 16 unm gardener labourer b East Stonehouse Devon
Samuel son 14 unm coal miner b " " "
Sarah dau 10 scholar b St George's.
Ref RG 9/1732 folio 10 page 14
There you go Jason,yet another generation farther back.
Regards
Carol
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thanks for that :) is there any trace of the family in the 1841 or 1851 census
i knew that in 1901 the household was as follows
1901 census RG13 2392 folio 110
19 Salisbury Street St George Bristol
Albert Cureton 32 Speedwell Gloucestershire Head Married Furnance stoker at chemical works
Clara Cureton Cricklett? Wiltshire 30 Wife Married
Flossy Cureton 7 St George Bristol Daughter
Elida Cureton 4 St George Bristol Daughter
elida is actually Hilda
and Flossy is Actually Florence Annie
well you can imagine my excitement thinking there could actually be another cureton descendant from albert and clara ;D
well not to be :'( i found this
FLORENCE A CURETON died sept 1915 Bristol age 22 vol 6a page 123
i would like to order her death cert just to find out how she died but i think it will either be hilda's or florences cert i order but which one first ??? :'(
regards
Jason :)
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1851 address Bath Road,Bristol St George.
Philip Cureton head 46 labourer at Alkali works b Hereford
Sarah wife 47 b Devon as are all the rest.
Anna Jane 12 dau servant
John son 6 scholar
Samuel Norton 4 son scholar
Sarah dau 3 mths b St George's Glos
Too late to do anymore tonight,will look for 1841 tomorrow :D
Carol
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thanks hope we can find him in 1841 but there seems to be no trace of him on familysearch and no trace of a marriage ???
also i think i will post something on occupation interest to find out what phillip cureton did as i have never heared of Alkali works before
thanks Jason :)
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If you look at the ages of the children,you will be able to work out that the marriage would have taken place well before the start of registration in 1837.
Having said that I have found Sarah in 1841, and the children, in Devon,but not Philip :(
In Fore Street,East Stonehouse. All born in county(of Devon)
Sarah Cureton 35
Ann 5
Hannah 3
Philip 2 mths
They are in the household with a young Wallis family.
Baby Philip's birth ref is Sept 1840 in East Stonehouse vol 9 page 306.
If you wanted to get the cert to confirm mum's maiden name.
Regards
Carol
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ah so i must have been a coplue of years out to order the marriage cert as it was before civil registration
thanks carol hope the hereford board might be able to help me find some sort of birth record for philip cureton ?
thanks for all your help you have all been great and i couldnt have done it without you all
Jason :)
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just found out some info on my gt grandfather William Moreton apparently he died when my grandma was 11 years old and she was born in june 1949
would it be possible for someone to check the death index for William Moreton died around 1959 in Nuneaton and from that i can work out his age when he died
Many thanks Wileman 121
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I know it's been years since this thread was started. did you get anywhere with it all? I am from the gilliver line had have been beavering away on my family tree for some time now.