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Family History Documents and Artefacts => FH Documents and Artefacts => Topic started by: maple on Tuesday 20 February 07 21:48 GMT (UK)
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I was wondering if anyone knew how long an ink jet photo will last. I have heard that they will only last from 2 to 10 years. I want my photos to last much longer than that.
I have an Epson Stylus RX600 all in one printer. The photos that are printed out on it are good, but I don't know how long they will last. I would like them to last for at least as long as they would last from a commercial printer.
I have tried getting information on the internet, but so far I haven't been successful in getting anything specific.
Does anyone have any information on this subject?
Thanks
Maple
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Can't really help with any hard facts Maple.......except to say that I have photographs I printed 10 years ago......and they haven't changed at all.
Maybe it depends on where you keep them.....if they are in sunlight or even daylight, they may fade but then all photographs do.
Hope that may put your mind at rest......at least for more than ten years...lol
Jean
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For independent test results which might give you the information you want, have a look at http://www.wilhelm-research.com/
For best results with your printer use Epson's own paper and ink. Pigment-based inks last much longer than dye-based ones, and Epson Durabrite inks are said to be of archival quality, but I am not sure if they are available for the Stylus RX600. However the way the pictures are stored will affect how long they last. Photos in albums will last longer than ones on display and exposed to light. Since you are printing them yourself, make sure you have them backed-up on CD, then you can reprint if necessary.
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Longevity of inkjets vary depending on the inks used and is a subject that is really still open to debate - after all who can claim 100 years when inkjets haven't been around for that long. Certainly tests have been don that subject the prints to excessive amounts of light (particularly uv), these tests do indicate good archival properties and I would think that even the cheaper inks will last somewhat longer than your 2 years. Manufacturers do advise against using inks other than thier own, now how much of that is soley to ensure continuation af thier own sales - who knows?
the best that I can tell you is that pigment inks are better than dye based inks and that as you have an Epsom printer, Epsom inks are considered some of the best.
Denn
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Somebody gave me a tip several years ago regarding inkjet printing.
Always use inkjet paper that has the same dots per inch (DPI) as the printer. That way you get a perfect match.
If there is no DPI written on the packaging of the paper your buying, then don't buy it.
Buy Epsom paper and you should have a perfect match.
I buy my paper from........ www.ink2paper.com. 220 gram+ Its got all the ranges of DPI.
Hope this helps
John
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Does it really matter?
If you have a digital photo then if the original print fades in ten years you could simply print another, by that time the printers will have certainly improved.
I would therefore suggest you ensure all photos are taken at maximum resolution to enable the best possible output in years to come.
Cheers
Guy
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I have no idea of costs outside Australia - but over here - I find it significantly cheaper to get digital photos professionally printed (rather than pay for paper and ink myself) - but I don't have any idea what is used for same & how long they will last.
Trish
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Thanks to all of you for replying. You have all made me feel better.
I was given this information about the short life of Inkjet Prints from a person in a commercial photo lab. ???
I gave in to a moment of panic thinking that my pictures would all disappear in a few years. :o
I keep my pictures in acid free storage till I can put them in albums. I suppose that the only thing that I can do is back them up on CDs, and every few years or so reprint them. I have been reprinting my old black and white photos that are getting faded and some of my old color prints too.
Maybe in a few years time, we will have a better knowledge of how long these prints will last, and I suppose that newer and better products will also go on the market.
In the meantime I will take everyone's advice. I will only use Epson Papers from now on. I will scan all my pictures into my computer, which will be a big job, but in the end worth it as I can put them all on CDs. My scanner is very good and seem
s to always be at maximum resolution.
Hi Trish, It is cheaper to have new pictures done at professional labs, but I am using my printer to do individual new photos and reprint and hopefully restore old ones.
Thanks again to everyone who answered.
Maple
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Hi Maple,
I hate to throw a spanner into the works but even CD'S can have
a very limited life. Always Buy Branded names of quality, like TDK, Sony etc.
Beware of cheap rubbish. Store them as per the manufacturers instructions.
Always look for Archive quality papers,inks and CD's but they are usually expensive.
Tomkin
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You're right Tomkin...........our local newspaper keep everything in hard copy (paper).....they will not trust to CD because of it's lifespan.
Think I'll leave a note with my photo's and family tree........telling the next generation to quickly copy everything to CD and print........and to pass the message on to the generation after that........ ;D
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Maple
Use the web space that comes with your ISP. Upload them onto the internet. You don't have to design a webpage, you can just leave them there for keeps sake.
John in Tyrone
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Hi Maple,
Some good advice has been given already here. I would just add that apparently the pigment-based inks are designed to have better light-fastness than the dye-based ones (which are the ones ordinarily used in home printers).
Your local archive service might have some fact sheets or info sheets about the topic.
Cheers
Prue
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Hi Maple,
You said that you couldn't find anything specific on the internet.
Try this. www.computeractive.co.uk This is the website of a computer
magazine that I buy every fornight. It's cheap and excellent value.
For example if you type "printed photo's longevity" in the search box
and select all articles you will find 2911 news articles and 1375 reviews.
Of course it pays to refine the search but I will leave that to you. you can try
CD's or any subject that you wish. just experiment.
On the Home page you will find loads of articles and advice and hundreds of downloads.
Look for the "free ones".
This site will stand you in good stead for many years to come on all computer matters.
Regards,
Tomkin
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Hi Tompkin, Prue and Tyrone
I have finally learned, (thanks to all of you) that the manufacturer claims that the prints from an Epson RX600 will last 22years on premium glossy paper, and up to 30 years on Matte Paper Heavyweight, if their inks and papers are used. They have more expensive machines whose prints will last up to 108 years, or so they claim. 8)
Hopefully the prices for the more expensive machines will come down a bit in the next few years. ;)
I have old black and white lab processed photos that are beginning to fade after sixty years. These photos were not originally well preserved, as they weren't kept in an acid free environment. They were kept in old shoeboxes, and even in old paper bags, and many were dusty and dirty.
Thanks for the link to the computeractive site. It looks like a very good site
for all sorts of problems.
Thanks to all
Maple
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Hi maple :)
The manufacturers probably don't state in what conditions their prints will last that long ;D They probably want you to keep them in cold storage in the dark and never look at them! ;)
Just be aware that they won't last a hugely long time, so make sure your scans/digi images are as high quality as you can make them, and keep a couple of digital copies of each image on DVDs or CDs (which also don't last a hugely long time, but that's another story).
Cheers
Prue
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I believe that as Trish has said, it is worth looking at getting your prints done commercially. Last month I had visitors and ended up getting over a thousand 6x4 prints done for them to take home - at Harvey N' I paid 15cent per print. Larger prints can be done at Snap for as little as 10 to 40cents for A4 (depending on paper), an A1 (abt 31inch x 24inch) can vary anywhere between 20 and 60 dollars. I can't come anywhere near these prices using my own printer, so definitely shop around - not only photographic store but your commercial printers too.
Denn
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Hi Prue
I have been searching the Internet and have just learned that Epson has come out with RX580, which they claim that with using their ink and paper, prints will last for 200 years. :o
That is what I am looking for. My current printer is two years old and when it breaks down, I will buy the newer one. I will have to copy all my photos all over again.
I will make two batches, one almost never to see the light of day, and another to be shown. Now my only problem is that when I am gone, nobody will toss out those old photos and all my genealogical collection into the trash. :( I know that this kind of thing has happened before to many people.
Hi Denn, I agree with you and Trish. I know how expensive it is to print your own photos, and I get all my new ones done commercially. It is with what I think of as special photos, and the old ones that I use my own printer. That is where I save the money, and the photos come out better.
Regards
Maple
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Hiya maple :)
I had a look at the notes for the Epson printer you mentioned, and they say the following:
"Print permanence ratings are based on accelerated testing of prints on specialty media, displayed indoors under glass or UV filter or stored in archival sleeves in album storage. Actual print stability will vary according to media, printed image, display conditions, light intensity, humidity, and atmospheric conditions. Epson does not guarantee longevity of prints. For maximum print life, display all prints under glass or UV filter or properly store them. See www.wilhelm-research.com for details."
Basically they are saying that under optimum conditions your prints may last as long as 200 years - i.e. in cool storage, in the dark is my guess!
I personally prefer to keep my peripherals separate, i.e. dedicated scanner, dedicated printer. Combination machines always seem to compromise on something in my experience.
Cheers
Prue
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Hi Prue,
Thanks for your input. :) I realize that they must be stored correctly. I intend to keep all of my photos in albums or special storage boxes.
I bought an Epson printer, but not the one that I mentioned earlier. A few months ago I bought the Epson Artisan 800. What surprised me was that the scanner wasn't any better, and possibly not as good, as the one on my Epson RX600. I am glad that I did not buy the Epson RX580. The scanning capabilities on that machine were inferior to the RX600. ??? My old RX600 was still running very well when I gave it away.
I would like to keep scanner, etc separate, but my home office just isn't big enough for all of those different machines.
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When manufacturers say that things will last for so many years, it always make me laugh - is it suddenly going to disintegrate when it reaches a certain age?
It's mainly down to storage. If you're going to have photographs on display, no matter what material they have been printed with or on, they are going to fade. If you keep them according to archival standards (for photographs there are a whole host, such as ISO 14523:1999, BS 5687 (ISO 3897), ISO 5466, ISO 6051, ISO 18902, ISO 18918, BS ISO 10214, BS 5699: 1979) then they will last longer.
Digital preservation is a whole different matter - who knows if jpeg or tiff will still be a useable format in 50 years?!
The main thing is to store them properly and not worry about them too much. Keep an eye on ones kept in storage to make sure no insects or mould are present, but more importantly enjoy them! After all, what is the point in keeping something unless it's going to be looked at or used?
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That makes perfect and understandable sense Aberdeen Archives..... will have to look up the 'BS' numbers.
Hope this helps Maple.
Thankyou
Jean
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Longevity of inkjets vary depending on the inks used and is a subject that is really still open to debate - after all who can claim 100 years when inkjets haven't been around for that long.
Inkjet printers haven't been around for that long, but inks have. As far as I understand it, early inkjet printers used inks based on vegetable dyes, and these inks don't last very long, but will last rather longer if kept in darkness. Later inkjet inks are pigment based, and should last rather longer, but even these will be affected by light eventually.
Laser printers use plastics rather than ink, and these can be affected by contacts with other plastics, so storage has to be done carefully. Lasers also aren't that good at rendering photos anyway.
The best printer to get for printing photos is a dye-sublimation printer. These printers use special cartridges of ink and paper, because the "ink" isn't liquid at all, but is a dye which is heated and transferred to the paper. The longevity of photos printed with dye sublimation is supposed to be between 50 and 100 years. The downside is that it's quite expensive, but then inkjet isn't that cheap either, when you count the number of prints you can get from a cartridge, and the quality of dye-sublimation is much better than inkjet, because inkjet ink spreads, and ruins the definition.
http://www.systeminsight.co.uk/InkjetvsDyeSublimation.html
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I personally prefer to keep my peripherals separate, i.e. dedicated scanner, dedicated printer. Combination machines always seem to compromise on something in my experience.
Whilst I agree with this in general I have recently bought an all-in-one from Brother (MFC-6490). It gives me an A3 scanner (with sheet feeder) at half the price of any alternatives and I get a free A3 printer and colour photocopier thrown in. Sometimes all-in-ones really are worth it.
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Hi Thank you!
Loads of brilliant information here! printer's really struggling with over work, mostly on things that don't really need a photoprinter!
I just bought the cheepest and best all in pone which is grewat for saving the day for copies of forms etc at the push of a button, and I can actually get a photocartridge for it, so at £30 I'm not complaining!
You've given me loads of food for thought though for when I can replace the photo printer - or even try the photo cartridge for this one and hold fire until I sdee what comes out of the woodwork!
You've also spurred me to copy somehow the sixties black and whites now fading from the sixties printed at home!
Thank you again.
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi Thank you!
Loads of brilliant information here! printer's really struggling with over work, mostly on things that don't really need a photoprinter!
I just bought the cheepest and best all in pone which is grewat for saving the day for copies of forms etc at the push of a button, and I can actually get a photocartridge for it, so at £30 I'm not complaining!
You've given me loads of food for thought though for when I can replace the photo printer - or even try the photo cartridge for this one and hold fire until I sdee what comes out of the woodwork!
You've also spurred me to copy somehow the sixties black and whites now fading from the sixties printed at home!
Thank you again.
Best wishes
Emms
Just another thought for you when you DO come to change it - get one with individual ink cartridges.
I work for a stationers & believe me it works out a LOT better to just replace the colour you need to replace rather than thowing out a cartridge with maybe 2 part used colours in it.
Also - dont look at the price of the machine itself - you will only have to pay for that once.
Look at the price of the cartridges - they are what you will have to keep replacing, and check if they need seperate 'printheads' as well.
THIS is where the shops & manufacturers make their money - they market the printers at a low price knowing people will see the printer itself as a bargain & not everyone will check the price of the cartridges before they buy the machine.
Gaille
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As well as light, inkjet photos need to be protected from high humidity and pollution. Both the paper and the ink can be affected by these factors.
Some dye ink manufacturers now claim a long life for their prints. However their humidity test seems less than rigorous.
Most of the A4 printers use dye inks. The exceptions are Kodak printers which use pigment and a now discontinued Epson. Most of the pigment ones are A3 sized and are big.
I, personally, am waiting for the possible new A4 Epson but it is like waiting for Godot.
Charlie.
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Hi
Thank you for al the extra advice.
The last one was one with six colour, separately, and I haven't totally given up, but the print heads need aligning every few sheets and it's had a hard life. - An Epsom Stylus Photo R200. I needed something for admin and this was the quickest and cheepest. I've been pleasantly surprised though!
Thank you again!
What a wealth of advice Rootschatters give!
Best wishes
Emms