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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cambridgeshire => England => Cambridgeshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: geno500 on Saturday 31 March 07 14:24 BST (UK)
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Hi can anybody look up the 1891 census for a Alice Gertrude Barker she was living in Cambridge in 1893 and would have been about 16/17 at the time of the census she would have been in domestic service.
Best Regards
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Hello geno500
Do you know where Alice was born?
Sue
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she was possible born in Lancashire
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There are 2 in Cambridge, one (18) born Ickleton, Cambridgeshire & the other (17) born Cambridge, Cambridgeshire. Both living with Parents.
Sue
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Hi Sue
Thanks for that,I have been on the trail for a friend of a Phoebe Gertrude Casbolt,who we believed was born about 1891/2 as she said she was 21 in 1913 on her marriage cert,but she is a lady who seemed to have no past as she is not in the freebmd or in the 1901 and in the 1891,but had a stroke of luck and found her birth on line at the Cambridge records forked out £8 of my friends money and got the birth cert this morning 15-8-1893 Pheobe Gertude Casbolt born to Alice Gertrude Barker domestic servant living at Morley Cottages Russell Street Cambridge,seems like the age old tale of naming the child after the man who did the deed,so thought it might just be possible that she was a servant in a Casbolt household in Cambridge in 1891,back to the drawing board.
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Hi again,
Could this be Pheobe, known as Gertrude...
1901 census RG13/1531 Folio 90
Charles Casbolt Head 45 M b Balsham, Cambs Brewers labourer
Alice Wife 28 b Nepave, Essex
Gertrude Dau 7 b Cambridge
Charles Son 5 b Cambridge
Lilian Dau 2 b Cambridge
Arthur Son 2mths b Cambridge
5 Coronation Buildings, Russell St?, Cambridge
Sue
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Births http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
Phoebe Gertrude C BARKER
Year 1893 Qtr Sep Dist: Cambridge Vol 3b pg 467
Charles Stephen C BARKER
Year 1896 Qtr Mar Dist: Cambridge Vol 3b pg 451
Alice Lilian C BARKER
Year 1898 Qtr Sep Dist: Cambridge Vol 3b pg 479
It looks like the 'C' is for Casbolt
Sue
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;D Sue you are a winner,this has to be it I have the first cert you have on your list but it did not have a fathers name on it ,also I believe you are right with the family with Charles Casbolt as head as my friend says that the family thought that Pheobe Gertrudes Casbolts father was a Drayman which means that a Brewers Labourer could have started to deliver beer between 1901 and 1913 and also Pheobe's father was dead by 1913 when she got married,I looked at this family you have mentioned,if I am not wrong Charles died soon after the 1901 census will try freebmd,as with all family story's they have to be taken with a pinch of salt but the story is that Phoebe's younger sister and brother went into Barnado's,but that of course is like dropping of the face of the world,as Barnados would like to forget the children sent abroad as it is now seen as not right,you are a star Sue
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Trying to find some earlier info....
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Charles Casbolt died aged 50 in 1906
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That fits nicely...
now to find why Charles & Alice were not married :-\
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1891 census RG12/1284 Folio 11
Charles Casbolt Lodger 35 b Balsham, Cambridgeshire Brewers labourer
Mary Casbolt Wife 32? b Yorkshire
Abbey Walk, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
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I think we are getting to the heart of the matter dear old Charles was still married ;) still married to Alice Barker or not this is the family my friend has been looking for and with a Casbolt name it should not be too hard to trace back as it is a Cambs name even the few I found in Stoke on Trent came from Cambs add another star to your row ,thanks alot Brian.
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Hi I just found the only Charles Casbolt born in early 1850's in freebmd and the only Charles Casbolt born 1856 in the 1881 census are the same and in the 1881 census he is married to a Lucretia Casbolt with one child he gives his birth place as Linton but that covers Balsham as well,we have a complete lunatic here 2 wives and one pretend one no wonder he died aged 50 the nagging alone not to mention the M-in Law's.
Best Regards Brian.
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I looked at that one..
By the 1901 census Lucretia was a Widow
I think you can rule this one out :-\
1891 census RG12/1290 Folio 31
Charles Casbolt Head 36 b Linton Agricultral labourer
Lucretia Casbolt Wife 39 b Abington
Emily Dau 11 b Linton
Agnes Dau 8 b Linton
Thomas Son 4 b Linton
Dora Dau 2mths b Linton
Market Lane, Linton, Cambrideshire
Sue
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okay sue will do thanks for your help.
Brian.
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Out of interest..
Marriage
Charles Casbolt ~ Mary Ann Barker
Year 1893 Qtr Sep Dist: Saffron W Vol 4a pg 981
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
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This could be Charles & his family..
1861 census RG9/1030 Folio 7
William Casbolt Head 38 b Balsham Bricklayer
Ann Wife 36 b Balsham
James Son 16 b Balsham Farmers boy
Abigail Dau 11 b Balsham
George Son 8 b Balsham
Charles Son 5 b Balsham
Emma Dau 2 b Balsham
Jesse 3wks Dau b Balsham
High St, Balsham, Cambridgeshire
Reg Dist: Linton
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Out of interest..
Marriage
Charles Casbolt ~ Mary Ann Barker
Year 1893 Qtr Sep Dist: Saffron W Vol 4a pg 981
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
1901 RG13/1734 Folio 67
Samuel Barker Head 69 b Saffron Walden, Essex Retired game keeper
Elizabeth Wife 67 b Saffron Walden, Essex
Mary A Casbolt Dau 26 Wid b Catmer End Littlebury, Essex
Charles Casbolt Son 7 b Catmer End Littlebury, Essex
Lily Casbolt 5 b Catmer End Littlebury, Essex
Frederick G Casbolt Son 3 b Catmer End Littlebury, Essex
Catmer End, Littlebury, Essex
Reg Dist: Saffron Walden
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Thanks alot Sue,you have pulled out all the stops,it just shows once you scratch the surface of this family history game just about anything can pop up,and with a local name like Casbolt,we have got some weird findings,given that the name is not common,we have two Barker women marrying or not marrying two Charles Casbolts,both the women come from Essex,so maybe they are sisters,I have never heard of Nepave and I live in Essex maybe it is Ingrave who knows,they also have two names the same in Charles and Lilian in there childrens names ,it is only luck that the Charles Casbolt I want ,is still alive in 1901 otherwise the second family you found may have fitted.
Best Regards Brian.
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Hi Bryan
Going along the lines that Mary A Barker could be a sister of Alice Gertrude Barker...
1881 RG11/1818 Folio 10
Samuel Barker Head 48 b Saffron Walden, Essex Game Keeper
Elizabeth Wife 46 b Saffron Walden
Eliza Dau 21 unm b Saffron Walden
James Son 19 unm b Saffron Walden Labourer Ag
Alfred Son 16 b Saffron Walden Labourer Ag
Charles Son 13 b Saffron Walden
Elizabeth Alice Dau 9 b Saffron Walden
Mary Ann Dau 6 b Littlebury
Little Bury Green, Saffron Walden, Essex
Sue
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Can't find Charles on the 1881 census,
but here he is with his married sister Julia...
1871 RG10/1593 Folio 5
William Goats Head 28 b New Wimpole, Cambs Ag Lab
Julia Goats Wife 24 b Balsham
William Goats Son 4 b Balsham
Edward Goats Son 1 b Balsham
Charles Casbott Brother 16 b Balsham Ag Lab
West Wickham Rd, Balsham, Cambridgeshire
Sue
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1891 census RG12/1284 Folio 11
Charles Casbolt Lodger 35 b Balsham, Cambridgeshire Brewers labourer
Mary Casbolt Wife 32? b Yorkshire
Abbey Walk, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
Marriage
Charles Casbolt ~ Mary Betchetti
Year 1878 Qtr Oct-Dec Dist: Newcastle Upon Tyne Vol 10b pg 191
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1891 census RG12/1284 Folio 11
Charles Casbolt Lodger 35 b Balsham, Cambridgeshire Brewers labourer
Mary Casbolt Wife 32? b Yorkshire
Abbey Walk, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
1871 census RG10/4753 Folio 14
Simon P Betchetti Head 25 b York, Yorkshire Glass bottle maker
Maria Betchetti Wife 27 b York
Mary Betchetti Dau 12 b York
Dominie Betchetti Son 3 b York
Fishergate, Walmgate, York, Yorkshire
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Hi Sue this has given me a greater understanding of what went on with this family,for a while it looked as if Charles Casbolt had married one sister and then lived with the other,at least this Mary Betchetti helps rule that out,my friend will go to Cambridge records soon to search the parish of Balsham records to take the family back on the Casbolt side ,I have drawn the Essex Barkers,which will have to wait until after Easter.
I am just about to look up in freebmd,which Casbolt married the other sister Mary Ann as she was a widow in 1901,should not be to hard,thanks again for all the help you have given :-*
Brian.
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I am just about to look up in freebmd,which Casbolt
married the other sister Mary Ann as she was a widow in 1901
That could be Charles Casbolt 1893 :-\
Hope your not thinking what I'm thinking ::)
How the mind boggles :o
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Hi Sue cannot be him as all the children in the 1901 census are in freebmd thats Charles aged 7 Lily aged 5 and Frederick George aged 3 plus there is a possible birth and death of a Florence Edith Casbolt at Saffron Walden in 1899/1900 so the husband must have died between 1897 to possible 1899 and as all the children were born Saffron Walden makes sence he died there the one that fits but not quiet is Charles Casbolt who died Dec 1901 Saffron Walden he perfect except he would have been alive at census time I surely.
I will have to pull the records for Littlebury and find out who the kids father was.
Brian.
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I cannot take any more intrigue,it's like one of those spy books where the good guys are bad the bad guys are bad and noboby tells the truth,I am only doing this as a favour,my head hurts ??? ???
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Theres a few researchers on this line at
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/
It maybe worth your friend to check this site out.
Sue
ps: How does your friend know that Phoebe's younger
sister and brother went into Barnado's & sent abroad?
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His mother was born around 1923 from the 1913 marriage of Pheobe and wait for George Jones her memories come and go and as you may know in those days there were alot of family secrets,or children were told something by there parents and this was believed absolutely,in my family ,we lived with my old grandfather in a large house,in what was the old family front room filled with victorian dusty furniture was picture of a old grecian temple with clouds in the sky and the Sun had a big eye in it ,I as a kid of 6 went into that room and it scared me my mother said that as my Grandfather was welsh it was his Druids picture as they believed in the Sun,30 years later I found out that it was a Masonic picture,and do you know I explained this to my mothers sister who was in her 80's, after I had told her she said ,yes but that was my fathers Druids picture,anyway the family story is the two youngest went into Barnado's the boy went to Jersey and Lilian went to Canada,Barnado's do not like to give out info ,they have a sort of team but they don't do much,and the people who try to get info from them are very greatfull for any crumb that falls there way so when you mention Freedom of info act you tend to scare the horses and they don't reply,it's a shame I think Barnado's did a great job and were right but modern thinking is that they were wrong.
Brian.
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I think you are right Charles Casbolt has led a very interesting life,marrys a Mary Betchetti in Newcastle and lives with her in 1891 census no kids at Cambridge,then leaves her between 1891 and 1893 and marry's Mary Ann Barker in Sept quart 1893 at Saffron Walden and has three children with her then lives with her elder sister Alice Barker in Cambridge and has at least four children with her and dies in 1906 aged 50,he must have left Mary Ann Barker not long before the 1901 census so she put down she was a widow in the census,in the 1901 census Charles Casbolts only wife who he married in Newcastle is alive and well living in Kettering and is a Charwoman,well thats seems to be the story behind the results we have from the census and certs,but I wanted to make sure by getting to Essex Records to look up the Mary Ann Barker marriage which will I believe have taken place at Littlebury,this will give me his fathers name and so we could then be certain,but the records are closed Friday and all of next week as well so I will have to wait.
Best Regards Brian.
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,in the 1901 census Charles Casbolts only wife who he married in Newcastle is alive and well living in Kettering and is a Charwoman,
Best Regards Brian.
I see on the 1901 census, Mary has two children,
Annie Marie 15, b Hampshire & Joseph James 13, b Cambridge.
If this is the correct Mary, where were the children in 1891? >:(
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Not sure I only looked at the 1901 census site I did not see the actual census,so thats two more children to add to the brood did Mary say she was married or a widow? and we have a Hampshire birth as well,makes a change from Essex or Cambridge.
Brian.
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Do you think we are straying a bit?..... :-\
1901 RG13/1447 Folio 69
Mary Casebolt Head 42 M b York Charwoman
Annie Marie Casebolt Dau 15 b Aldershot, Hampshire Shoe/Boot machinist
Joseph James Casebolt Son 13 b Cambridgeshire Shoe finisher
Prideman Sq., Kettering, Northamptonshire
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No children on the 1891 census...
1891 census RG12/1284 Folio 11
Charles Casbolt Lodger 35 b Balsham, Cambridgeshire Brewers labourer
Mary Casbolt Wife 32? b Yorkshire
Abbey Walk, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
1871 census RG10/4753 Folio 14
Simon P Betchetti Head 25 b York, Yorkshire Glass bottle maker
Maria Betchetti Wife 27 b York
Mary Betchetti Dau 12 b York
Dominie Betchetti Son 3 b York
Fishergate, Walmgate, York, Yorkshire
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No I don't think we are straying,both the children are in the freebmd,and of course as he married Mary in 1878 we still have 6/7 years when they could have had more before he left,the children from the early years of this marriage would be old enough by the 1901 to be on there own,but apart from there being loads of half brothers and sisters ,It's not that important in the context of the Casbolt /Barker connection,its just a shame I cannot wrap this up until I can get to the records,thanks for you help.
Brian.
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Hi Just to let you know that I pulled the Littlebury records and Mary A Casbolt who said she was a widow in 1901 census was telling the truth,but the amazing thing is she married a Charles Casbolt who died in 1898,this death has not been sent on to central records,just shows you cannot be certain with free bmd that all the records are there even if it has been law since about 1875,the old parish records still win out sometimes,well it is still weird that Mary's sister lived and had children with another Charles Casbolt who was already married,my friend has now got the family history bug and so he is now in charge of this search,thanks for all your help.
Best Regards Brian.
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It's not FreeBMD, who transcribe literally what's in the GRO index. So if it's not in the index FreeBMD obviously can't transcribe it.
The local register office may have mistranscribed the entry when sending it off to the GRO, or may have missed it off altogether. If you check with the register office rather than the GRO you may find the entry.
Remember that, at least in theory, after 1837 the church was not allowed to bury anyone without sight of the death registration. You seem to have found the burial rather than the death.
David
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Hi David
I think you missed the point,of my posting,it was to let Willow know that I had found the last bit of the puzzle as far as I was concerned,and to make a observation that you still have to get out from behind the computer with all the cd's and Ancestry and go to the good old parish records,and I am quiet sure that it is not in the GRO and as you pointed cannot be in freebmd because of that,but I used freebmd in my posting because thats what most people use,not living near London,and most people not wanting to get invovled with local registry offices which may be open on Monday from 11am to 2 pm,with regard to finding a burial rather than a death,thats what I went looking for if my pal wants to know when Charles Casbolt who married his partners sister actually died he may have to get along to Saffron Walden registry office one monday morning. Still Willow and I had a great chase for this family history.
Best Regards
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Still Willow and I had a great chase for this family history.
Best Regards
We sure did ;)
Glad to hear it resolved.
Sue