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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Photograph Resources, Tips, Tutorials => Topic started by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 05:34 BST (UK)

Title: Collages, A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 05:34 BST (UK)
I have been trying to be clever and combine 8 head and shoulder cropped photographs into one picture for a specific purpose. This would give me 8 generations together.  I have done that part of it as well as I am able.

However, my question is - can unwanted shoulders etc be removed? When I have cropped I have sometimes got part of the shoulder of the next person inside the oval, and it spoils it rather. I imagine it could be removed but am not really sure. I don't want to ask for help with something that can't be done, so would appreciate advice.

.......dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: PrueM on Tuesday 10 April 07 05:49 BST (UK)
Hi Dee  :)

It can definitely be done.  What software are you using?  I use PHotoshop Elements, and if I was composing something like you've described, I would have each head in a different layer.  That means I can edit them all separately, and can use the eraser tool to remove anything I don't want.

Prue
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 05:53 BST (UK)
Thanks Prue. So it can be done. I only have Photostudio 200 and I have tried to do various things using the tools. Trouble is I don't really know what I am doing and my hands don't always do what I tell them. But I am always willing to have a go.

I know about layers - that's how I have put the 8 generations into one picture. .....dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: PrueM on Tuesday 10 April 07 06:55 BST (UK)
OK, so if you have the different layers, you should be able to edit each one separately.  I just looked on Google for some info about your software, and found the ArcSoft page that describes it, and shows some screen shots - I can see from those that there is an eraser tool, so you should easily be able to do what you want. 

All you would need to do is click on a layer, to select it for editing, and then click on the eraser tool - you might have to adjust the size etc. of the eraser, I like to use a blurred edge on my erasers so things don't look too sharp and "cut out". 

I would be interested to know how you get on  :)

Prue
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 07:04 BST (UK)
I'm having a go Prue.    :o   :o   :o 

In one word at the moment I have to describe what is happening as "shaky"    ;D   ;D   ;D

Will keep you posted!

....dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 07:26 BST (UK)
Right Prue - I have used the eraser and then the clone tool to fill the spaces - main problems I have are that the edges of the ovals now tend to have "wobbles" in them. And my poor daughter's arm looks distinctly lumpy.    ;D

However, for a first attempt I am reasonably satisfied.

Next question - if I worked with a copy of the original photo - and when I had removed and replaced the necessary bits, then I cropped the ovals to put in the layered picture - that should overcome the wobbly edges, shouldn't it?

.....dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: PrueM on Tuesday 10 April 07 08:31 BST (UK)
Hi Dee,
Yep  :D  Always easier to do everything you can on the original scan, then copy and paste into your new composition.
Prue
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 10:34 BST (UK)
Much easier that way, Prue - although I still struggled with my stupid hands. (fingers that turn at weird angles don't always like doing fiddly things.   ;D  )

I am quite pleased with how the picture has turned out.  I now have a picture of 8 generations together, instead of two groups of 4. It is going to make a great card for my mother - one of the generations.

Many thanks for your help and encouragement.

.....dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: mudge on Tuesday 10 April 07 10:42 BST (UK)
Have followed conversation with interest and managed to keep stum :-X :-X :-X, as Prue did a good job on her own ;) ;) ;)
However it would make a nice conclusion if you could post the final collage.  I for one am intrigued 8) 
Mudge :)
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 10:50 BST (UK)
OK Mudge - I guess Prue might like to see the results as well. I have actually done two. Here is the first one which was easier than the little "gallery" one that I did.

....dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 10:53 BST (UK)
And the one that really had me needing help......

.....dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: PaulaToo on Tuesday 10 April 07 11:15 BST (UK)
That really is good, dee. I am in awe.
I can only go 5 generation in photos, but I've never thought of trying to put them together like that.
I'm thinking now...but I think I will only think...if you see what I mean  ::)
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: PrueM on Tuesday 10 April 07 11:18 BST (UK)
Wow, Dee  :o ;D  Fantastic job with both pics!  I don't think you needed my help at all  :P

Prue
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 11:31 BST (UK)
Oh yes I did Prue - you put me in the right direction of using the ersaser and then trying out some of the other tools. Good thing I always work on a copy of a photo, cos I made a few right big messups at times!    ;D   ;D   ;D

I did know about using layers-  a friend introduced me to that one day. It's the changing - restoration part that I don't know about - and don't really think I have steady enough hands for.

.....dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: cando on Tuesday 10 April 07 11:36 BST (UK)
Dee ...... wonderful work.  I do envy you ..... such wonderful photos.  Fantastic.

Cheers
cando
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: mudge on Tuesday 10 April 07 12:39 BST (UK)
Hi Dee
Thanks for putting them up as requested.  You should be well satisfied with the results, they're great.  I particularly like the second one ;)
Could I make one suggestion ??? If you still have the second one with the layers still in place, lighten the bottom set of images to match the top set better.
This can be done with each layer in turn, using Levels in New Adjustment Layers, remembering to tick the Group with Previous Layer box when bringing it up
Cheers
Mudge
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 12:50 BST (UK)
Mudge, I do still have the layers but I have no idea how to lighten a photo. I've tried using "levels" but always end up with a complete mess.

I've just had a look on my Arcsoft 2000 and it doesn't have "Levels in New Adjustment Layers, remembering to tick the Group with Previous Layer box". It has a whole lot of headings under ENHANCE - such as Brightness and Contrast,  Hue and Saturation etc etc. These are the things that I have tried and really messed up.

......dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: dennford on Tuesday 10 April 07 13:16 BST (UK)
If you make sure that the background is white, you may try to adjust the opacity of each layer  (the control top r/h side of layer box)

By the way, I reckon the pic' came up pretty good - especially when you said that you were unsure.

                                                    Denn
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 13:28 BST (UK)
Thanks for the suggestion Denn - but I don't seem to be able to find anything like that. I am definitely a beginner when it comes to actually working to change a picture.

I do know how to make a simple collage by just using cropping, copying, pasting, and manouevring the photos around. Add softening the edges, and that's been my limit until today. Today I have learnt to use the eraser and the cloning tool!    :D

......dee

Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 13:52 BST (UK)
I've been trying things out and this is what happened when I used Auto Enhance.

.....dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: dennford on Tuesday 10 April 07 14:13 BST (UK)
Sorry, I have a habit of thinking photoshop. I'm not sure about your prog' but here it is on mine.

                                       Denn
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 10 April 07 14:20 BST (UK)
Denn - nothing like that number of "buttons" on mine - it is very basic. Think I'll have to investigate other options for photo editing at some stage.

Thanks for trying to help.

......dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: Blondie1 on Tuesday 17 April 07 11:51 BST (UK)
What a wonderful photo and idea.   I wish I had photo's for 8 generations but I don't.     When my first grandaughter was christened we did one of 4 generations,  this as given me the idea of adding my grandmother who I do have a photo of.   Watch this space.   Thanks for the idea.,
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: Harry Ward on Tuesday 17 April 07 12:17 BST (UK)
Dee,

If you can, get yourself a graphics tablet and pen....trying to do these things with a mouse is like trying to paint with a brick...but ya did a good job..:)

Harry
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 17 April 07 13:07 BST (UK)
Thanks for the suggestion, Harry. First I'll have to find out what a graphics tablet is!   ???   I'm off to google it. ......dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: dennford on Tuesday 17 April 07 13:09 BST (UK)
try to ggoogle "wacom"

                                             Denn
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 17 April 07 13:25 BST (UK)
Have had a good read, Harry and Denn. Sounds very interesting. On the "wish list" it goes!    ;D   ;D   ;D

......dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: dennford on Tuesday 17 April 07 13:40 BST (UK)
I've used one for some years now and I get confused when on someone elses 'Puter and need to use a mouse.

                                        Denn

Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 17 April 07 13:40 BST (UK)
What a wonderful photo and idea.   I wish I had photo's for 8 generations but I don't.     When my first grandaughter was christened we did one of 4 generations,  this as given me the idea of adding my grandmother who I do have a photo of.   Watch this space.   Thanks for the idea.,

GB - it was fun to do, so hope you have a go at it. And it is nice to have them all in one picture.

......dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Tuesday 17 April 07 13:44 BST (UK)
I've used one for some years now and I get confused when on someone elses 'Puter and need to use a mouse.

                                        Denn



Not sure how I'd manage the pen, Denn. I have severe rhueumatoid arthritis of the hands and my fingers turn outwards at 45 degrees and I have problems with a pen these days. But it may well be better for me than the mouse when it comes to working with details.

......dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: dennford on Tuesday 17 April 07 14:00 BST (UK)
Ask no more,
       I  have suffered from RA for some time now. Among other replacements I have had my rt wrist fused after just about completely losing use. my left wrist is  just about useless, thankfully my fingers are reasonable.
       However I find that the pen is better for me than a mouse - that isn't to say that it will be in your case, but at least worth thinking about - just don't rush into it because as you no doubt know we are all different, especially when it comes to RA.
         For me it is something I accept as a part of ageing, but it makes me weep when I see a child going through the agony of arthritis. Why oh why - when they are so young and still have a full life to live?


                                                Denn
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 18 April 07 01:11 BST (UK)
Thanks for your last message Denn. It is good to exchange info with someone who has similar problems. You would understand fully why  actually working on fiddly things like pictures  throws up big challenges that are not always anything to  do with the methodolgy, but just a case of "fingers won't do it"!   ;D

Can't count the number of times I have blessed the advent of household computers and their touch sensitive keyboards.

I shan't be rushing into getting a graphics tablet - for more than one reason - but I will now read more and investigate them more, as it sounds as though it could be a possibility for me in the future.

I have had my RA since I was in my early twenties - all I can say is thank goodness I didn't have it as a child - and I echo your thoughts about children having to suffer its pain and limitations.

........dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 18 April 07 01:29 BST (UK)
Dee  :)

You'll never regret buying a graphics tablet. I've had mine for 3-4 years now and would not be without it.

I'm left handed and I have the tablet on my left and the mouse on the right and can use both as appropriate. For photo/graphics work, it seems so much more natural to use a pen than a mouse  :)

I'm lucky that i don't have RA.

Cheers

Gadget
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 18 April 07 02:09 BST (UK)
Thanks Gadget. When I can. it sounds as though one would be a good investment for me.

Got to pay for a big trip to Sydney first for my son's wedding in June!    ;D   ;D   ;D

And a new rainwater tank to help out with water supplies.........

.......dee
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: Britgirl on Sunday 22 April 07 04:50 BST (UK)
Dee, those collages are wonderful. I particularly like the second one.

You are so lucky having photos of 8 generations!  :o

The best I can manage is 6 generations, but I think I might have a go for my mum and father-in-laws birthdays next month!

Now can I put them together to mail by Tuesday?!!  :o   ???
Title: Re: A question for Restorers
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 22 April 07 08:18 BST (UK)
I'm sure you can Britgirl! I made collage cards for both my children's birthdays when they've turned 40 over the last couple of years - used photos from when they were tiny babies to present day - and they just loved them.

I also did the same for my Dad's 90th birthday. Everyone at his party had a wonderful discussion about all the different photos in the collage. The sad thing was that my father is legally blind, and could not see it for himself.

.....dee