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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: mrs griff on Saturday 14 April 07 20:46 BST (UK)
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Please , i need help found this entry on Genealogy World , its taken from the Natal Passenger list .Dept June 11th 1886 Courland CSS London . Rendall .East Coast Ports , there is no arrival for this Ship , am i right in thinking this ship sailed from England ? If so anyone know what port it sailed from. there is a passenger on it named John Roberts who could be my G-grandfather , he was killed in a mining accident,dont know where . where were the Gold Mines at that time if he arrived at Natal .
Hope some knowledgeable Roots person can help
Kind Regards Mrs Griff
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Hi Mrs Griff
I saw on one of your other postings that you think he may have been killed between 1879 -1881. have you tried searching the South African National Archives? http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl
I see one death notice in the Free State Archive in 1879 and a Will in the Cape Town Archive in 1880 (obviously not the same person)'.
How sure of the date period are you because there are Death Notices in 1883 (1) & 1884 (1) in the Cape Archive and in 1884 there is an application for Employment from one John Roberts in the Pietermatitzburg (Natal) Archive.
Sorry, no knowledge of the passenger records you were looking at. :(
Regards
Moira
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Thanks Moria for you quick reply , i have narrowed the dates down to between 1884- 1889 , 1884 being the year of the last child being born and his wife remarring in 1889 saying she his a widow, i dont know if you can help anymore , his D O B was 1850 his wife was Jane ,and he came from Caernavon Wales , and was giong to work in the Gold Mines,
Regards Mrs Griff
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Hi Mrs Griff
There is only the one reference between those dates and it is in the Cape Town Archive. The problem with this is that there are no gold mines in the Cape! The other possibility is that he went to the diamond mines - which are in the Cape. The third possibility is that this is not his file at all and he may not have had an estate file registered. The only way to tell is to get a copy of the Death Notice and see if it is him. If you chose to do this, I recommend that you do it as suggested in the topic under "Obtaining copies of documents from the National Archives" http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,211554.0.html
Regards
Moira
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I forgot to give you the reference in the Archive:
DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
VOLUME_NO 6/9/205
REFERENCE 8020
DESCRIPTION ROBERTS, JOHN. DEATH NOTICE.
STARTING 18840000
ENDING 18840000
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Many Thanks Moria,
I will take on board everything you said , and contact you again if i need your expert advice . i'am sure i will .
Kind Regards Mrs Griff
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If this is still relevant, the Courland was departing from Natal for coastal ports. Here is the extract :
June 11 (1886) - Departure
Courland CSS London (i.e. port of registry). Rendall (captain) East Coast Ports
Passengers
Mrs McIntosh, Mrs Rose and child, Mr and Mrs Lelson, Mrs Potglase, PK Dickinson, RL Dickinson, McAdam, Owen Tod, Kretzshmar, W Wilson, C Forsyth, J Jacobs, Tasste, B Jacobs, T Wall, F Holderness, W Boly, Thomas Tooley, R Grantham, Dunne, Magwire, Ramsay Macnar, Mr Graham Painter, W Lovemore, E Renny, Tailyour, Llewellyn, Mr Paulet, Messrs CJ Ingman, James Roy, John Roberts, Right Rev Abbot Franz, Mahomed Doujee and Isop Tameyer, Mr F Holden.
The Courland had previously arrived at Natal as follows:
June 10 - Arrival
Courland CSS London. Rendall. Cape Ports
Passengers
ex Pembroke Castle from England (i.e. passengers had trans-shipped to Courland)
Misses Shiphard, Messrs R Tailyour, S Brook, H Forbes, Mrs SC Smith, Messrs GW Bedford, J Studart, Mr and Mrs Nott and 6 children, Mr J Lanzinger, Mr R Gossip, Mr Preuer, Consul and Mrs O'Neill and maid, Mr Herman, Kaisser, Mr Egas, Moniz, Casllo, Messrs Abraaches, Garcia, G D'Oliveira, J Serrans, Benio D'Oliveira, Antonio, Maria, Jack, Mr Greenwood.
Mole
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Thank you Mole yes any thing is relevant has I have not found a death for him ( my big brick wall ) from what you have said that John Roberts must have already been in Natal and boarded the ship there where has i thought he was on it from London I am I think correct ? Do you know what coastal ports it would have been sailing to would they have been gold mine area,s .
Kind Regards Mrs Griff .
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'East coast ports' generally refers to Port Elizabeth (Algoa Bay) and East London, i.e. the smaller ports between Natal and Cape Town. Delagoa Bay (later Lourenco Marques, Mozambique) would have been a more likely port for anyone wishing to reach gold mining country. However, I cannot find that the Courland would have gone further up the east coast than Natal - she'd have turned round there and headed back down the coast to the Cape. There is no doubt that the passenger John R was leaving from Port Natal rather than arriving.
Mole
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Thanks, more to think about and research .
Mrs Griff
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There was a John Roberts among the Willowfountain (Wilgefontein) Settlers to Natal. In the Spring of 1886, the discovery of gold on the Witwatersrand, combined with a drought in Natal, tempted the sons of settlers, if not the settlers themselves, to leave Willowfountain and journey north in search of the fortunes needed to pay off their farms.
Read more at http://molegenealogy.blogspot.com/search?q=willowfountain (http://molegenealogy.blogspot.com/search?q=willowfountain)
Mole
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Thank you for that link what a lot of interesting info on there ,when you say there was a John Roberts among the Willowfountian settlers are you refering to the mr & mrs Roberts with children that arrived on the SS Nyanza on 12th July 1880 ? my John Roberts went SA on his own and his wife and four children were waiting to join him when word arrived back to my g-grandmother that he had been in killed in a goldmine. now I do not have an exact date for him leaving that,s what is making it so difficuit.. just that his last child was born about 1880-1881 and my g- grandmother remarried in 1889 . so it is a bit of a needle in a haystack but it is my goal to keep searching .
Kind Regards Mrs Griff.
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Yes, I was referring to John Roberts & family who arrived in Natal on the Nyanza in 1880. Of course, John Roberts is not a particularly rare combination of names, which makes your task more difficult. I mentioned the Willowfountain Roberts because it occurred to me that several of these settlers did join the gold rush and the date parameters weren't a bad match for your JR's details.
It seems you have a time frame between about 1880 and 1889 - nearly a decade, which is huge in terms of searching. And we don't know if JR was alive at the date of birth of his last child. There are references to the name John Roberts on NAAIRS, various dates, as you've obviously gathered from other posts. Any, or none, of them could be your JR. Have you explored any of these contenders? Some clue in the docs might point towards the individual being your ancestor. Admittedly it is the 'scatter gun' approach! Deaths occurring on goldmines were not always officially reported, depending on circumstances. If I have any bright ideas I will be in touch.
Mole