RootsChat.Com
Family History Documents and Artefacts => Graveyards and Gravestones => Topic started by: JoJoBuggins on Sunday 29 April 07 20:41 BST (UK)
-
went to Doncaster Family History Fair yesterday and was talking to the people from Wakefield Family Society, to learn that a Church where quite a few of our ancestors are buried is to be demolished and flats and houses to be built in the graveyard.
Just wondered if we as living relations have any rights has to what happens to the stones?
Jo :)
-
There is an "owner of the Grave"-who is the person who has the Grant of Exclusive Right of Burial - as I understand this-it is "owned" by the person who pays the fee and obtains the document and registers themselves with the council (or burial ground owner). This grant usually lasts for a period of 50 -100 years. headstones can only be erected which adhere to the regulations of the burial ground and can only be moved with the permission of the registrar.
The cemetery where my grandparents were buried was to be taken for a road widening scheme (which never took place), but all of the headstones were moved from the cemetery and placed around the walls of the local churchyard -a notice was posted in the local paper stating this was to happen -and of course noone knew who held the grant of Exclusive right ( the owner is supposed to register with the local authority and notify of change of address etc ). The headstones will be treated with as much care as possible, but there are always those which crumble when being moved, but records are kept (often by volunteers) of memorial inscriptions.
Hope you can understand this -it is complicated -and I do tend to ramble!
It's not the same as being able to go to THE place though, is it?
My great grandfather is buried under a car park -the chapel took the burial ground to make a car park!!!!
One of the reasons I think family History is important is so that our ancestors are remembered in some way -after all they toiled and lived their lives paving the way for us!
Suz
-
This is slightly off topic, but I also think its hard when all the relatives were cremated and there's no grave to find and visit ...
-
Lydart,
Hi, yes cremation is a difficult problem for those left behind but my Mom died almost 3 years ago and after her cremation, we had her ashes places in a beautiful little box that was then buried in the cemetery in Hay on Wye.
She is overlooking the playing fields where her grandsons and great-grandsons play footie and cricket. I'm sure she is enjoying that view.
The grave is very small but large enough to have a small flat stone installed.
Cheers
Indi
-
We were talking about this on another thread the other day
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,203175.msg1218805.html#msg1218805
and I mentioned my pet hate which is car parks over graves and the stones being used as paving stones... and that developers should legally have to do something to preserve the stones (like the wall you mention) or at least the info on them before dumping them
grrrrrr. >:(
-
Forgive my ignorance but am I right in understanding that in cases such as these the graves are left to be built on and the grave markers are moved or demolished????
Seems almost sacrilege. I understand the lack of space in many places for old cemeteries but there is surely got to be a better way of dealing with this issue. R.I.P should mean just that.
-
Sometimes RIP means "rest in pieces".
I am horrified that they are using them for paving stones. Who would ever have thunk?
-
Surely if flats and houses are to be built there, they'll have to remove all the bodies from the cemetery too? If so it's absolutely outrageous.
Andrew
-
Many thanks for your interesting replies
The headstones in question are dated 1847, only went last weekend and took photos, tried reading the inscriptions, some parts readable, parts were worn away. The Family History Society of Wakefield did the Monumental Inscriptions about 5 years ago for this Churchyard
Must say though have heard some horror stories regarding building car parks over graveyards. It seems to be any available space, they build on it, whether Sacred ground or not!!!! >:(
Jo
-
went to Doncaster Family History Fair yesterday and was talking to the people from Wakefield Family Society, to learn that a Church where quite a few of our ancestors are buried is to be demolished and flats and houses to be built in the graveyard.
Just wondered if we as living relations have any rights has to what happens to the stones?
Jo :)
This is the first I have heard of this plan, but I have been extremely busy over the last couple of months and am quite out of touch.
Which graveyard is it?
In England it is unlawful to build on land where bodies are buried and there is a requirement of recording and transcribing all headstones involved.
It should also be noted that headstones are heritable property and belong to the beneficiaries of the person who bought it in the first place.
If the graveyard was consecrated all the remains will have to be removed and re-interred in consecrated land before any development takes place.
Lodge your concerns and ask for the relevant headstones to be removed and re-erected over the new graves.
Cheers
Guy
-
Stanley St Peters, Wakefield.
According to the person we spoke to on Saturday,the plans were put forward within the last week or two and the Church are all for it to go ahead.
Think that is our next plan of attack,contacting the Church or relevant authorities, with regard as what to do next
Jo
-
The Church of Ireland near us disposes of old headstones by throwing them over the wall into the river. My husband's family had 8 headstones there, from 2 different families including one for a man born 1600s in Scotland, about 100 years ago according to a newspaper article- now 3 left. One day he climbed over the wall to see if he could find any legible pieces but it was just like a giant jigsaw puzzle.
-
When I went to visit my ggggrandparents graves (buried 1824 and 1818) in a church yard in Ontario Canada I was horrified when we drove up and the whole cemetery had been turned into a parking lot.
We did notice some "walls" at the back of the parking lot and when we investigated they were walls of headstones where I did find her headstone but not his. We then walked very gingerly across the parking lot, not knowing if we were walking on people below the pavement and went into the church to try to find out how such a terrible thing had happened.
We were told that the land belonged to the church and was theirs to change as they wished. I tried to regain my composure and asked where the bodies were as I wanted to pay my respects. I was told that they had all been moved and placed in a mass grave in the municipal cemetery. They could not provide me with the exact spot and very coldly told me it wasn't marked.
When I asked why they didn't at least have the decency to move the bodies with their headstones and rebury them with their proper identification I was told that it would have been a nightmare (most stones broke while being removed) and far to expensive for the church.
They also told me they didn't have the time or resources to try and contact descendants, although in this case it would have been a local phone call as there are many many descendants in the area.
I live 3,000 miles away so I should have asked if it has at least been reported in the newpapers prior to the removal but by this time I was almost in tears and just walked away.
Never in my worst nightmares could I image that they would have such a cavalier attitude towards the remains of their past parishioners.
No need to tell me I over reacted....I think in this situation that would just be a matter of objectivity which I don't have in this case.
dollylee
-
Thanks for that, the planning application is
http://tinyurl.com/2woazm
I have not checked out the plans and details properly but from the details given I am almost certain that the application will not encroach on any burials at all.
The site of St Peter's Church is large with the churchyard a little distance from the church itself and plenty of room for the proposed buildings to the north-east of the church see
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~framland/CHURCH/sps.htm
Cheers
Guy
-
I think there are some good stories here that need to be told.
Any investigative reporters in our midst who'd like to take it on??
-
Guy
Thanks for that, from what the person at Wakefield Family History told us, its all going to be redeveloped, but apparently the residents are up in arms about it!!
My two headstones lay flat in the pavement right by the Church Wall, so they will most definitely be lost I would have thought
Jo
-
Dollylee
Thats awful, I must admit when the person told us, I could have sat and cried.
Dont know about you but there are certain ancestors you feel closer to, and these ancestors on these headstones for some strange reason I feel really close to.
Jo
-
I know what you mean Jo, I feel closer to some ancestors and I just recently found the grave of my Great-Grandfather, who is possibly the most important ancestor to me.
I hate to think of him being dug up and put somewhere else without my knowledge. Does anyone think it is possible/worth people contacting the churches where their ancestors are buried and leaving contact details in case this happens? Do you think the churches would bother letting them know if they had the contact details ?
Erin :)
-
Dollylee where was this??
I was at a genealogy conference on Saturday and that was one of the topics they brought up. Apparently (speaking for Ontario) cemetery's have no "real rules". The OGS (Ontario Genealogical Society) went to court recently over a gentleman buying an old church with a churchyard. They tried to stop him and lost. They did say they would keep a close eye on what the fellow was doing, he says he wouldn't take the church down, but things hapen. They said since it's an election year here, to ask your local MPP what his views are on cemeteries and what can he/she do to protect them.
Karen
-
Good idea, Karen.
I think we all realize that "things change". But that's no reason to treat the deceased with carelessness and disrespect. You'd think we would have learned that from the issues with native burial grounds by now, if nothing else.
See "Bones discovered on edge of Pond Mills Cemetery", about 3/4 down on this page:
http://thelondonfog.blogspot.com/2004_04_11_thelondonfog_archive.html
Just this week, with help from rootschatters, I discovered my ggggparents are buried in Pond Mills Cem, and I found it quite upsetting to read this. Those bones could belong to my family.
-
It was in Belleville Karen. It was quite a few years ago but not something you are apt to forget.
dollylee
-
I think that its awful and at the end of the day, the only people gaining anything from this are the contractors - its all down to money, money :(
-
I found my husbands grandmothers grave at the weekend ;D
after much searching for over a year, off we went to visit, it's an extremely large London cemetery. Armed with the map we found it, the headstone is as it is (except it is now dark grey in colour and doesn't look at all like white marble)
in a photo I found in my husbands mothers effects. The Headstone has the inscription for Grandmother, in front of the stone is a (large) urn with an inscription to grandfather, whose death I had been unable to find, despite sending for various death certs.
But underneath the inscription for grandmother is another inscription to an unknown person (different nationality- easily identified by name), I have no record anywhere in my research of this person I wondered is it a son in law?
So I phoned and checked with the Cemetery Office - definitely only two people in the grave they said no more room , are you sure?
Later I heard from them, the stone mason given the permit to add the inscription has added it to the wrong headstone, e.g. grandmother is in Section 57, grave 430
the other person is in Section 37 grave 430.
What to do? is there an obligation on the cemetery to correct the error, they don't know if they can find out who the mason was?
I was so upset... :'(
newbie
-
Being a practical person I would believe that since they defaced the headstone that a one time member of your family paid for, it would be the cemetery's obligation to put it right.
But sadly I have found that is not always the way life works.
I would approach them and ask them what they intend to do about the error and how they are going to make it right by your family.
dollylee
-
just wanted to add that it was the cemetery's obligation to make sure that it was done on the proper grave. They have to hold some responsibility in the mistake and not pass it all off to the engraver.
dollylee
-
It is also the stonemason's job to do the work correctly. It is possible that the family in Sec.27 grave 430 told him the wrong number and he was just following their instructions. Do you know how long ago the name was added? Wonder if the other family ever knew of the error?
-
the other person is in Section 27 grave 430.
Then who is the second body in with Grandma? Could it be your missing Grandfather?
Sorry, but I also find this very upsetting.
dollylee
-
Thanks for the replies,
Apparently the cemetery issues a permit for the mason to carry out the work on cemetery grounds, and I think she said gives the grave reference and map. The cemetery also wondered why the other family hadn't queried it, but maybe they live far away?
Dolllylee The Headstone has the inscription for Grandmother, in front of the stone is a (large) urn with an inscription to grandfather, whose death I had been unable to find, despite sending for various death certs.
Yes it's grandfather. :)
newbie :(
added: It is so upsetting I agree.
-
Sorry newbie....I really should ge new glasses.
dollylee
-
I've just ordered my new ones! ;D
newbie
-
I feel quite depressed reading these posts! Dollylee and Newbie, what horror stories you told! I am in Oz and have not found any of my ancestors' graves in the UK, and goodness knows what has happened to them after reading all this. I feel powerless!
Have just been watching Time Team which we get here - I'm addicted to it! - and the crew has been excavating near the abbey of St Hilda of Whitby and found a skeleton which has been carbondated to her era and is probably one of her nuns. With some of these tactics that churches are engaging in, there will be nothing left for future archaeologists to find!! :( >:( >:( :'( :'(
The better news is that where I live, the municipal cemetery is extremely well maintained and cemetery authorities are happy for people to come and do up their family graves (which I have done). A local historian leads tours of the cemetery, so there are important links to the early history of my town. My earliest ancestor buried here is a gggrandmother, so I do have some important family graves! And on her large gravestone, where various family members are buried, one branch of the family has added plaques, so it is becoming like a record of the family... Very interesting, and shows how people value well-maintained graves!
MarieC
-
It is so sad to see these uncared for cemeteries, this large one is quite well maintained overall, but many of the graves are in a state of disrepair, falling over etc.
The staff at this one are trying to be helpful and were as shocked as me I think.
But it's good to hear about some of the well kept ones, I found some others in Wales last year, again a large cemetery but well kept and it was a moving experience to find my 2xggrandfather's.
newbie
-
Like Marie C, I feel quite depressed and tearful reading your posts. :'(
As I said earlier my headstones are from 1847, I felt the need to lay some flowers just to show them that somebody still cares and is thinking about them, soft aren't I, but to me they are part of what I am
Makes me more determined to try and do something about it >:(
Jo
-
I know which cemetery most of my ancestors on my Mum's side are in, and it's only a couple of miles from my house, but I have no plans to go and look because the place is a jungle, half the headstones are fallen, vandalised or missing and it is littered with rubbish and hyperdermic needles. It's such a shame when people let the resting place of our ancestors get into such a state of disrepair. :'(
Erin
-
and its not just the young people, think Councils have alot to answer for!!!
Jo
-
Tonniemags,
>:( >:( >:( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
MarieC
-
I posted a couple of photos on another site, showing where my grandad is buried in Allenvale Cemetery, Aberdeen.. Unfortunately, my grandad didn't have a stone, but his grave is registered with the council, who very kindly, in less than a week and at no cost to me, found the grave reference and sent a map to me. I was able to give this to someone in Scotland, his website is
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nescotland/
and he took some photos for me. He tells me that despite Allenvale being close to the city centre it is a well-maintained and quiet place. There are full-time gardeners there and it always looks in splendid condition.
This is how a cemetery should be kept.
Liz
-
:) Most definitely
and there all stood upright, obviously very well maintained, thats what we want to see more of
Jo
-
This is all so disturbing. I wonder how these people pushing for the destruction of these cemeteries would feel if they had family buried there.
I have been working with the town historian in the town where one of my gggrandparents settled (in the States). The cemetery they are likely buried in was bulldozed years ago, but this gentleman says no one will admit to it. It's interesting, they know they did something REALLY wrong, yet went ahead and did it and then cover it up. There will be no hope for me to find anything.
Kath
-
I'm beginning to wonder if someone was pushing me to go to see the headstones, because we wern't intending to go.
Makes me >:( that if I had left it any later, there would have been nothing.
Both me and my cousin when told about this planning application said
"They can't do that, our ancestors are buried there."
its like fighting a losing battle, but as my cousin said, to which I laughed
"We'll fight them on the beaches, We'll fight them in the air" etc to whatever else Winston Churchill said :)
Jo
-
As people have had such trauma over their ancestors' graves, I thought I would tell you about my grandfather. I searched fruitlessly for his death, as I only knew he was dead by 1939, until as a last resort I emailed my local council to ask who kept the records of burials in the village where he lived after his marriage. They gave me details of someone on the local Parish Council, and this lovely man told me the date of my grandad's burial, who conducted the funeral, and who purchased the grave (cost: 8 shillings). He then offered to find the grave from his map (no headstone), and put a wooden marker on it. I was able to visit the grave and take a posy of flowers. I not only found what I wanted to know, but so much more, thanks to such kind, helpful people.
-
As people have had such trauma over their ancestors' graves, I thought I would tell you about my grandfather. I searched fruitlessly for his death, as I only knew he was dead by 1939, until as a last resort I emailed my local council to ask who kept the records of burials in the village where he lived after his marriage. They gave me details of someone on the local Parish Council, and this lovely man told me the date of my grandad's burial, who conducted the funeral, and who purchased the grave (cost: 8 shillings). He then offered to find the grave from his map (no headstone), and put a wooden marker on it. I was able to visit the grave and take a posy of flowers. I not only found what I wanted to know, but so much more, thanks to such kind, helpful people.
Lovely story. It makes it all worth it. There are good people out there, willing to go the extra mile for you. In one cemetery I visited, for my ggg grandparents, we were given a personal escort by employees of the cemetery, as they were so worried we wouldn't be able to find the spot (huge cemetery in NYC). I didn't really expect to find anything, but the church who owned the plot had put up a new marker within the last 20 years with everyone's names on it. Not only did I find the 3 I knew would be there, but a daughter who was born and died between census who I never would have known about. I had a good cry there.
Kath
-
Update on Stanley St Peters
my cousin has been in contact with the planning people, the agency for the company that want to buy the land and somebody from the Diocese of Wakefield.
According to the Agency for the company "There are no bodies buried in the Cemetery."
If not then where are they, what is under the stones, GOLD?
And they will be preserving all the "mature trees" >:(
what about the mature headstones, dont they need preserving!!!
On the plans it doesnt mention the graveyard at all, but they want to convert the Church to 16 flats, and the land beside (graveyard) 5 houses + gardens.
They say no headstones will be affected, my two are right against the wall of the church, laid flat in the pavement.
Apparently they have already in the past applied twice for permission to build, but have been refused, lets keep our fingers crossed that it happens again
The Diocese have told her that they will keep her informed of developments
Jo
-
Wasn't there a cholera epidemic once at Stanley St. Peters and all those that were buried had to have their graves untouched for 100 years. I have ancestors from that Parish and would like to know if the graves and stones are going to be moved. :(
-
The old cemetery at my ex-parish church looks like a rubbish dump. So many of the old headstones have just been bulldozed into one big heap! It's absolutely shameful.
-
This is a long-standing problem.
Thomas Hardy wrote about it a long time ago:
http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/hardy/banerjee.html
-
Inchworm
Dont know about the Cholera epidemic, only just started researching the Stanley side of my ancestors
After looking at the Stanley St Peters burial Index, think I might have a few more in there.
Ive put in an objection, along with quite a few of my relations, have to keep our fingers crossed, but I'll keep you informed of any further developments.
Think after my cousin speaking to the person from the diocese, and voicing her opinion, he knows full well the concerns over the Headstones and he's promised her that she will be kept in the loop
Jo
-
I wondered if anyone has just seen the Watchdog article regarding Tottenham Park Cemetery, North London?
It is maintained by a private company, and it showed memorials thrown in skips and one family visited their family's graves and found out that someone else has been buried there!!!
A lady from York University said it was the worst site she had seen.
It looked like a tip rather than a cemetery.
I found it really upsetting and feel for anyone who has relatives buried there.
:'( :'( :'( :'(
FEK33
-
This is a long-standing problem.
Thomas Hardy wrote about it a long time ago:
http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/hardy/banerjee.html
Yes, loo!
I actually visited Old St Pancras churchyard looking fruitlessly for mysterious ancestors, and was surprised by what I read there about the moving of the bodies so that the railway could go through, and Hardy's part in it. There is actually an ash tree with headstones stood vertically en masse all around it, that is known as "the Hardy tree"! I hadn't known this about Hardy, and I'm sure it is not a memorial he would treasure!
MarieC
-
Oh no! Not Tottenham too. Is it the big one in Tottenham. I have relatives also buried in Tottenham. Perhaps some kind person could take a photo of the grave for me, before it disappears. I have the grave number.
-
Inchworm, sorry don't know much about the cemetery only that Watchdog said it was "Tottenham Park Cemetery, North London".
I am sorry if you do have relatives buried there. Perhaps like you say sks will take a photo for you. :-\
FEK33
-
Information about Tottenham Park Cemetery can be found on the BBC Watchdog link :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/reports/services/services_20070502.shtml
(I hope I have put this on correctly - 1st time I have put a link on) :-\
FEK33
-
I just came across this Parliamentary Report and thought I'd post the link in case anyone is interested...It's from 2001 but still makes interesting reading...all about trying to balance the greenbelt & wildlife needs with leisure, landscaping & historical requirements ...but still giving priority to the main purpose as a burial ground. Wonder if any of the local planners have read it recently?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i1/
-
For those people with Catholic relatives-I just got off the phone to the Catholic Cemetery where my G-Grandad is buried. The man I spoke to informed me that it is against their religion to reuse grave sites, or to build over them.
He says the problem mainly exists with council-owned cemeteries. I wonder if it is the kind of thing that could be altered through legeslation. Something to bring up with the local MP perhaps.
Erin :)
-
This is an interesting bit of information about a cemetery in Basingstoke, showing that not all councils are unfeeling.
Describing South View Cemetery as Basingstoke's answer to London's famous Highgate, Mrs ******* said: "These non-conformists made Basingstoke. The railway came and these businesses arrived, and it's really what made the town into what we have today. I think that's when the new town of Basingstoke really started - not the 1960s."
Commenting on the cemetery now being full, Mrs ******* said: "The gravestones that you see don't represent anything like the amount of burials here. Most people wouldn't have been able to afford a headstone - they would have just been buried."
Work on clearing the cemetery has been spurred on by the borough council deciding to reuse it for cremation burials.
The South View Conservation Volunteers have applied for a grant from the council to restore some of the headstones, including the Howat family's mourning lady.
"We want to do some repairs and stand up some of the stones that have fallen over or tilted," added Mrs *****
"Where crosses have come off, we would like to have them spiked into place.
"Many of the headstones were not necessarily done very well in the 1880s. Some of them were cemented onto a base, and they tilt quite naturally and then slide off."
Mrs ******* is the secretary of Basingstoke Heritage Society, which has been involved with volunteers from South View Residents Association.
Many members have formed The South View Conservation Volunteers and, along with borough council staff, they have been busy clearing away overgrown vegetation in the cemetery.
Liz
-
One post on here reminds me of my 'da Vinci' code type grave search last year.
My grandfather's mother died when he was eight, and his father went off the rails a bit leaving my grandfather in the care of other family. Anyway, my grandfather died when I was only 5 and my grandmother did not talk about his family (there was a bit of a rift).
When my grandmother died last year, I inherited all the family papers and records that were available. That is what started my search. There was nothing from my grandfather's side bar his birth ceritficate and a lair transfer certificate from the local cemetary.
I was having some trouble finding out about what happend to my great grandfather. He seemed to disappear off the map after 1926. So then I decided it was time to check up on the lair certificate.
I thought it was the certificate of my great grandmother and as such, her husband would be on the records being buried beside her. I emailed the regestrars office and they confirmed that the lair had been opened in 1934 to bury my great grandmother. They refused to give me further information without appointment. So I made an appointment.
After months of searching I thought that the mystery of my great grandfather was over. I was wrong. Turns out the lair was last opened in 1934. She is buried alone.
A few months later, the mystery of my great grandfather was finally revealed. Unbeknown to us, he had remarried. I was told this by his daughter, my grandfather's half sister. Neither of them knew about the other. Anyway, it turns out that he is resting in Rugby, England. He died there while working and the family could not afford to pay for the transportation of his body. My great grandmother is buried in Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire.
It just goes to show what family rifts can do in the long term.
Anyway, I have since had the lair transfered to my name. Alls that I had to do was prove that I was a direct relation of the 'inhabitant'. I also had to get the signatures of two other family members to acknowledge my right to the lair.
At least when my time comes my great grandmother will be joined by her great grandson, rather than some recycled-grave stranger (although I'm not sure if these new re0using guidelines apply to Scotland).
-
Hello Windsor 87 !
Firstly, a warm welcome to RootsChat ... we are an odd lot, but very knowledgeable and helpful, so if you post other queries on here, you may be astounded at the speed of replies !
Secondly ... can you tell us something about what a 'lair' certificate is ? I'd never heard of it before ... is it a Scottish thing ?
-
A lair certificate is held by the individual who has the right of burial over a particular plot. For example, when a husband dies, a wife will hold the certificate so that when she dies the family can show she has the right to be buried in that plot.
What I had was a lair transfer certificate whereby the ownership of that plot was transfered. My grandfather was only eight when his mother died and so the lair or plot was held by his aunt. When he became old enough, his Aunt (for a fee) transfered ownership of the plot from herself to my grandfather so then he held the certificate showing that he had right of burial there.
It may be a local thing. The transfer took place in the 1960s when Fraserburgh cemetery was run by a committee. I actually have a rule book from the time stating procedure for this particular cemetary.
-
I think (having consulted Google) that this must be a Scottish thing ... I've never heard of it in our church here in Wales, or in the C of E.
I've got a place booked in a hole in the churchyard here, but dont have a piece of paper ... now you've got me wondering ...
-
If you have booked it through the registrars it should be ok I'd imagine.
What I have (having checked) is a 'Lair Certificate of Registration'
At Fraserburgh this 22nd day of September Two Thousand and Six have registered (my name and address) and his heirs and successors, as entitled to exclusive right of burial for a minimum of 40 years...
Should I not die in 40 years, I have to re-register my claim.
-
I think (having consulted Google) that this must be a Scottish thing ... I've never heard of it in our church here in Wales, or in the C of E.
I've got a place booked in a hole in the churchyard here, but dont have a piece of paper ... now you've got me wondering ...
My mother was given a 99 yr lease certificate on the grave when my father died and that was Church of Wales.
Earlier, we had numbers allocated to grandparents' graves.
Gadget
-
If you have booked it through the registrars it should be ok I'd imagine.
I've planned to go into the same hole as my mother; when she was buried in the local churchyard, I expressed this wish to the vicar, who basically said 'OK'. No registrar involved in the churchyard bit of the funeral ... I just got the death cert from the registrars office and that was it ! I thought it was all to do with the depth of the hole for the underneath coffin, so to speak ?
I'm off to consult said vicar !!
-
Don't they have to wait X number of years before another person can be buried in the same grave?
My mum went down to the Council offices and bought her grave plot. Shortly after, she told her sister what she had done, whereupon she
went and bought the one next to it! So there they lie, side by side, under the shade of a beech tree, with matching headstones. Ladies only; my dad and my uncle wanted to be cremated, although we scattered dad's ashes on her grave.
-
Don't they have to wait X number of years before another person can be buried in the same grave?
She died in 2000, and I'm not dead ... yet ! Don't plan to be put in it for years and years and years yet !
-
Sorry, Lydart, I didn't mean you, I was thinking more about this (government?) suggestion about 2-tier graves to save space.
-
I was informed about the two tier system when I re-registered the plot.
They said that there would only definately be room for one more person which didn't really bother me. They did, however, suggest that given the last burial was over 70 years ago there may be room for two more burials. No idea how that logic works - perhaps we sink.
Lydart, as your mothers direct heir you probably need no paperwork. Just as long as nobody else who may have more claim disputes your wishes. I needed a transfer to skip my eldest uncle's family.
-
I am attaching a photo another rootschat member took for me a week ago. This graveyard is where my GGGGrandfather and other rellies are buried but alas no markers left. But the photos show a graveyard beautifully maintained with wildflowers growing everywhere. Whilst I was disappointed at not being able to get a photos of my rellies gravesite it was soooo nice to see they are buried in such lovely peaceful surrounds. I think other cemeteries could take a leaf out of this one's book!
Bron :)
-
I visited my great grandfather's grave site at Liverpool Cemetery (Sydney AUS) a number of years ago. He was buried in an unmarked plot in the "Paupers" section, which is just a grassed area. I was told by cemetery officials, as this section of the cemetery was nearing 100 years, Italian Crypts were soon to be built over the top of the area. Luckily, I had a grid reference for the grave, and was able to approximately pinpoint where he would have been buried. I marked the spot, and took a photo of the general area including that marker - to my knowledge, the only photographic reference to his grave. A recent visit to the cemetery revealed the new crypts had now encroached over the "Paupers" section. >:(
Les
-
I wondered if anyone has found the final resting place of their ancestor only to be asked by the local authority or church to pay for the upkeep of the grave or headstone?
-
I think there must be a great difference between 'council' graveyards, and rural village churchyards ... God's Acre, as Cybermouse rightly calls it.
Thankfully, we have masses of room in our churchyard !
-
I was informed about the two tier system when I re-registered the plot.
They said that there would only definately be room for one more person which didn't really bother me. They did, however, suggest that given the last burial was over 70 years ago there may be room for two more burials. No idea how that logic works - perhaps we sink.
I could explain but it is not for the squeamish, in effect yes, they and the coffins sink.
Cheers
Guy sink
-
whoever in the family has the grave papers would be informed or a notice put in the local press is usually done. but if they don't want complications they simply post in in two newspapers they don't have to be in the local area, London and say Aberdeen would do for Lancashire.
they are supposed to remove any remains which are then cremated and usually placed in a memorial garden.
This is all very well and good, but if it is in conflict with that persons religious beliefs, its simply just too bad.
The grave papers are valid for 100 years and then the owner of the land usually the local authority or a specific Church then have the right to decide what to do with the graves whether to leave them as they are, re-use them or build on them.