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Family History Documents and Artefacts => Graveyards and Gravestones => Topic started by: Lydart on Tuesday 08 May 07 18:27 BST (UK)
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I was in Anglesey last weekend, staying with friends at Menai Bridge. We went for a walk, and headed for a church on an island in the
river sorry ... the bit of water between Anglesey and the mainland ...
There were many gravestones with variations on a weeping tree cut into the slate at the top of the stone ... see pictures. (Sorry about the bird poo !)
Can anyone say what they represent ? And why was this type of carving popular over a period of time (graves dated 1880's to about 1920's had the tree).
The only thing I can think of is that it represents the willows of Babylon, as in Psalm 137 ... "By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept ... we hung our harps upon the willows ..." (Authorised Version ... modern versions say poplars). Am I right ??
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Hi Lydart
I think they mean trees of sorrow. A Weeping Willow Tree
ricky
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http://www.obcgs.com/gravestone.html
Those two examples you have given are rather lovely, Lydart.
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Thanks for that site ... and yes, Ricky, thats what I thought they meant. But are they something specially from north Wales ? I've never seen them elsewhere, and didnt have time to visit any more cemeteries !
Here's another variation on the same theme !
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Some related topics here, but I don't think we've had willow trees before:
Topic: RootsChat Topics: Graveyards, Gravestones, Gravestone Symbols, etc. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,203252.0.html
Bob
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I asked about this to the Menai Bridge History Group - this is the reply.
However thank you for the question, I have spoken with one of our trustees a local historian. She advises me that the mark you have seen is a palm tree and would have been the mark of the stone mason who made the gravestone. Apparently masons might have had more than one mark and it would be the choice of the family as to which mark was used.
I hope this answers the question,
Also please visit the exhibition which reopens on 18th June 2007.
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and would have been the mark of the stone mason who made the gravestone.
I'm sceptical !
I know it is very trendy nowadays to wear clothing which advertises the manufacturer,
but I can't imagine a gravestone having such a big "X, his mark" for the stone mason.
At the most, something small on the back, or a discrete bit of ornamentation within the other carvings.
I think that is definitely a symbolic carving.
I'll go with the website Gallium mentioned:
Weeping Willow Emblem of Sorrow
Willows Earthly Sorrow
Bob
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Really ?
Thanks for asking Wilcoxon, that was good of you, but I'm not sure if I can believe it ... the panel with the weeping tree is usually approximately one quarter to one third of the whole stone. Surely a masons mark would be tiny, compared with the size of the stone ? If you were the family of the deceased, would you really have the masons trade-mark filling the top third of your stone, above all the details of the dead person ?!
I wouldn't !
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I agree it would be most unlikely that this is a mason's mark.
I have photos of headstones with my family complete with palm tree taken in Corris (mid Wales) and I doubt that a mason would travel such a distance in the 1880's.
Peter
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http://www.prosiectmenai.co.uk/churchisland.html
I wonder if they meant is was a choice of designs rather than a mark.
He did say the families could choose which they wanted. If it was a masons own mark then surely it would be the same on all his work. ???
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~txcemeteries/symbol.htm
This site gives the meanings of synbols i., Willow -- sorrow, Palm tree -- Triumph over death. So I suppose it was all down to a choice of designs offered by the mason.
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Thank you VERY much for this:-
http://www.prosiectmenai.co.uk/churchisland.html
I'm going back to Anglesey soon, and this site fills in some gaps (well, more gaping caverns) in my knowledge about the place.
I suspect the explanation of the weeping trees is that it was just a fashion at that time ... just like some grave-yards have lots of angels heads on graves. The carving on the slate stones is very fine ...
I also went to Pen Mon on the eastern pojnt of the island ... well worth a visit.
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Enjoy your visit, I have just come back from a flying visit to Menai Bridge this morning. I went to Bangor Library to do some research and popped over to the Liverpool Arms for a `pie and a pint`. ::)
I visit Anglesey very often, usually when there is M/C meeting at the Trac Mon. ;D
There are lots of lovely places to visit, do your homework before you go and I agree Penmon priory is lovely. Try the ` Church in the bay- St Cwyfan`s ` by Aberffraw, at sunset, and just up the road is the Burial Chamber at Cable Bay.( Trecastell) :)
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We had Sunday lunch in the Liverpool Arms !! And to keep on topic, we talked about slate grave-stones and their fine carving while we ate excellent lamb !
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Hi - just to say that Iv been on that island in the Menai Straits and in the little church there. Im a graduate of bangor uni (and about to be a student there again!) and used to go over to this island quite a lot when i needed some time to think and somewhere quiet to go. Iv made many an important decision sat in the tiny tiny church on that island - isnt it 15th/16th century? Its one of those very special places to me.
Alison
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ps - penmon point/puffin island was also a favourite place of mine and the beach at newborough and llanddwyn island. Will be going back there in the summer!
Hope you had a nice time there
ALison
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May I just add my two pence worth. I've been to a lot of cemetries around Anglesey and Gwynedd looking for ancestors and I can't recall seeing that particular Palm design anywhere else so I think it is /was a pattern exclusive to that one stonemason. Might be worth checking the more recent headstones to see if that design is still in use.
If anyone is interested I've got digi pics of about half the headstones on Church Island. Been meaning to transcribe them but just can't seem to find the time at the moment.
You can get an excellent photo of the Britannia Bridge from the top of the island.
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Hi,
I have just returned from Wales, in particular the Llyn Penisula, near Aberdaron. Whilst there I visited St Maelrhys Church, Llanfaelrhys and the Weeping Willow / Palm tree is evident on stones there also. It is probably a symbol more related to the teachings in the area as a whole. Both these areas were used by pilgrims on their way to Bardsey and other special sites.
The area is of outstanding beauty and does give you a sense of peace as someone as mentioned.
If any one wants pictures of the church or the few stones I pictured let me know.
There is good site on the area of Rhiw which details lots of interest to those with roots there but I can't quite find it! Will look it out and post later.
:) :)
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I'd forgotten about this thread !
I agree with Midmum about a lot of these churches being used by pilgrims on the way to Bardsey ... Ynys Enlli ... we were on our way as pilgrims to Bardsey for a week, and also used this church on the way there and back !
I still haven't found this weeping tree symbol in churchyards anywhere else in central or south Wales ...
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FATAL ACCIDENTS AT BANGOR
North Wales Chronicle (Bangor, Wales), Saturday, May 20, 1876
John Jones , stone and marble mason of Menai Bridge was killed while adjusting a pulley at his employers Messrs J Thomas & Son`s slate and enamel works Bangor.
He was ` caught by the machinery and whirled round the shafting once, and when his fellow workmen ran to his assistance he was held fast to the shafting and was quite dead ` It took ten minutes to get the body down.
Poor man :'(
I wonder if J Thomas & Sons did any of the gravestones we are looking at.
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Hi,
The website is www.rhiw.com and it contains lots of information on local people and their chapels.
Another thought about the emblem being the masons " mark". In the Vale of Belvior, Leics, there is a Belvoir Angel on some stones and it is thought that it is the work of only two stone masons. It is apparently only found within this area so it may be that willows are only common to this area. :-\
One of the headstones I pictured with the Willow was from 1915 so it has been used for a relatively long period.
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The tradition of planting Weeping Willows in trees go back to I believe medieval times. I know that the best Bows were made of Yew, but I think Willow was also used.
At this time every capable man & boy was expected to practice his archery in case of war (which was not unusual). I think the poorer people used Willow & the rich Yew. You will find both in Churchyards, where they do not take up valuable farming/grazing land.
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Hi! I've just finished looking through a graveyard in Delta, Pennsylvania (US) which also has many beautiful slate headstones with the weeping willow motif and inscriptions in Welsh. Many came from Wales to work the slate here. I googled it to see if it was a predominantly Welsh thing and discovered this site! Wish I knew how to upload a couple photos of the stonework.
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Welcome to RootsChat from Wales ! Bora da !!
We are a friendly lot; you can upload photos to this site BUT they mustn't be too big. Search and you will find how to do it !
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Welcome, I found this interesting site with some photos.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/peach-bottom-slate-region
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Hi Lydart,
realise this is a very old thread, but, as a memorial mason, I'd like to put my tuppence worth in...
The Palm trees are a Christian symbol...Palm Sunday...
On your third photo at the start of the thread there is a figure, normally The Good Shepherd (Jesus) kneeling under the Palm Trees in front of a broken column. This is broken which indicates the death of a young person ie one who did not reach 3 score years and 10. Each Stonemason would have a section of designs which they favoured, all variations on a theme.
As far as Masons marks, it would be extremely unusual for one to be anywhere on a family memorial. A building or public monument yes, and even then only near the bottom.
As an aside, I've swam in the water under the Britannia bridge when doing a Rescue Boat course with the Scottish Fire & Rescue Service....great fun!
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https://www.funeralhelpcenter.com/cemetery-headstone-symbols-weeping-willow-tree/#:~:text=For%20these%20reasons%20and%20more,resurrection%20of%20the%20soul%2C%20etc
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The tradition of planting Weeping Willows in trees go back to I believe medieval times. I know that the best Bows were made of Yew, but I think Willow was also used.
At this time every capable man & boy was expected to practice his archery in case of war (which was not unusual). I think the poorer people used Willow & the rich Yew. You will find both in Churchyards, where they do not take up valuable farming/grazing land.
Yew is poisonous to animals, before the enclosures act land was not fenced into fields,so animals could eat Yew and would die,
The only place in a village that was enclosed was the Churchyard ,so Yews were planted there away from livestock .
Each peasant had a strip of the various kinds of land, heavy ,light,clay, wet dry etc.
iIt was an attempt to be fair and people moved to other strips every year so in time every family had some bad strips and some good ones, on a rota system.
Viktoria.
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Hello, I’ve seen a number of these willow graves in Porthmadog. As it happens, my gg grandfather (or hen hen daid as I would say) was a stone mason who worked on gravestones. I wonder if he ever did any with willows.