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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: poobear on Sunday 22 July 07 06:36 BST (UK)
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Just wondering if anyone would know if the Waikumete Cemetery is anywhere near Henderson.
I am trying to locate the grave of James Shaw who died in an accident 15th October 1883 at Henderson, on his death certificate it only states buried Auckland.
I have also found no death of his wife Ellen (Helen) Shaw nee Cherrie. There seems to be no record of her that I have been able to find. They lived in Henderson, Auckland. Nothing of Ellen's where abouts is known.
Any ideas most welcome.
Cheers Donna Shaw
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Hi Poohbear
Waikumete is in the suburb of Glen Eden, I'm not sure where in relation to Henderson this is.
For information on Waikumete you can contact infoCemetery@waitakere.govt.nz and inquire about James Shaw and his wife.
Regards
lil
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Hi Donna
Waikumete is close to Henderson, in the next suburb actually - Glen Eden, but only opened in 1886. Not too sure if there were any burials there prior to this date though.
Cheers
Karenlee
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Check the Symonds Street or Grafton (in Auckland City) cemetery.
I will have a look to see if they are buried in Waikumete tomorrow.
Have any accident details ?
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Thanks for the reply to my question. I have looked on the internet for Symonds Street and Grafton Cemeteries. Are they the same, I found Symonds Street but they refer to Grafton as is they are one cemetery.
Thanks for in advance for checking the cemetery for my relatives.
Yes I do have information on the accident, James was accidentally killed when the dray he was driving collapsed and killed him. I have the inquest on the accident.
Cheers Donna
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Yes they are the same, back then they still buried you in the city even if you lived out west.
Though there are a few small local graveyards.
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;D I see you already have a kiwi on the job...good luck ...have you searched the old newspapers ?
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Hi are you in Auckland? If not I'm happy to go to Waikumete and look him up, as it's not far from me.
Cheers,
;)
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Hi Kiwi Girl
If you do go to Waikumete and it's easy enough to search would you be able to look up the names Robert and Euphemia ( Ward )Montgomery for me please. Robert was born in Ireland 22 Jan 1865, Fannett Donegal, he died in 1937. Euphemia was b about 1867, Midlothian. Although I have contacted Waikumete a couple of times I haven't heard back from them.
Thank you
lil growler
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Hi there,
Waikumete office are really lovely in person, I've not tried ringing as I live about 5 minutes drive from them ;)
I'll try and get there tomorrow, or while my son's at Kindy on Tuesday afternoon.
8)
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1957 will for a Euphemia Montgomery at archives
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/CallSimpleSearch.do
This Euphemia Burial records at Mangere
Source NZSG Cemetery fiche
Record Type B/R
Year of Death 1957
Surname MONTGOMERY
Given Names Euphemia
Age 90
Location Mangere B04.22
There is also a euphema
Source NZSG Cemetery Collection
Record Number 8328
Record Type M/I
Year of Death 1945
Surname MONTGOMERY
Given Names Euphema
Age 80
Location Waipa Cemetery
There is a Robert 1937 at Mangere
Source NZSG Cemetery fiche
Record Type B/R
Year of Death 1937
Surname MONTGOMERY
Given Names Robert
Age 72
Location Mangere B04.22
Bye
Althea
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Hi Kiwi Girl
I'm pretty sure althea may have found them, in the Mangere Cemetery, the ages fit, I couldn't find them on the on line Cemetery Sites and as I have other Montgomery's in Waikumete I thought they may be there. I'll contact the Manakua City Council first, that may save you the effort of going to Waikumete. I appreciate you willing to go and have a look for me. Thank you. :) :) I'll report my findings when I here back form the council.
alteha
Thank You. I did see the probate but didn't think she was in Tepapa, never know though, I shall investigate further. As I mentioned above I think you may have found them :) :)
Just a question the location Mangere B04.22, do you know if this is the plot numbers?
Thank you both
Regards
lil growler
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Just a question the location Mangere B04.22, do you know if this is the plot numbers?
This is the NZSG fiche number, if someone can look at the fiche ie. at local library it may have more info
You can see full explanation of references at Murray's site
http://fhr.kiwicelts.com/Cemeteries/NZ_Cemetery_List.html
BYe
Althea
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Hi Kiwi Girl,
Thanks for the offer of going to the Waikumete Cemetery for me, I am in the South Island and would really appreciate it. Do you have a digital camera :)
James Shaw died 15th October 1883 at Henderson, Auckland and his wife Ellen (helen) died ?????
I have never been able to find her death date.
James and Ellens only daughter is also burried there her name is Agnes Baillie.
Looking forward to hearing from you and if you find out any information. Thanks again.
Cheers Donna
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Have digital camera, will travel ;)
It's nice day... so far in Auckland, so we'll give it a go :D
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Established in 1886, the cemetery provides for a wide range of denominational and cultural groups, and aims to offer a large number of alternative services to the bereaved. Waikumete is one of the largest cemeteries in the Southern Hemisphere and the final resting place for over 70,000 people. It also provides the largest open space environment for passive creation within Waitakere.
The cremators were installed in the 1950s and processes in excess of 600 cremations per year. The replacement of the cremators are currently under review.
http://www.waitakerecityinternational.co.nz/cnlser/cm/index.asp
So maybe James isn't there. I'll look for Helen/ Ellen and Agnes and see how I go. You can only do 2 free searches there a day ;)
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Hi there,
Sorry, none of them are there, I even drove to the Oratia Cemetery just in case, but couldn't find them, though there were a few stones that I couldn't read, so I phoned the church office and left a message.
This could be your James on the Auckland 1881 Electoral Roll:
Name Shaw, James
Property Type freehold
Electorate Waitemata
Residence Waipareira
Occupation farmer
Notes Part 4; Waipareira; 1021 1/2 acres and dwelling; October 1881
I haven't given up yet.... ;)
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Just so we're not entirely zero from 3 on the first outing, here's some Shaws that may be your kin and where they are resting.
:)
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Hi Kiwi Girl,
Thank you very much for having a look for me.
I wonder where James and Helen (Ellen) are burried ???? Its a real mystery.
I have just realised that I gave you the wrong name for Agnes Baillie (first marriage) her name when she died would have been Agnes Clark but is burried with her first husband John Baillie.
There was a boating accident and John Baillie (Agnes first husband) his brother James Baillie, sister Annie Crawford Baillie and his mother Ann Baillie all died and are burried together at Waikumete Cemetery.
So sorry about that. I really appreciate your help.
What cemeteries would have been around in 1883 in Auckland ???? Any suggestions.
Cheers Donna
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Hi Donna,
Symonds Street and St Sephens in the City - I've checked their online database, but maybe not properly. You can try at:
http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/symondsst/sscem.html
Oratia had no burials the year your James died. Purewa opened in 1889, I'm checking the North Shore ones just in case. Were they Catholics? If not they may have been cremated.
I'll check for Agnes tomorrow.
Cheers,
:)
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Hi there,
John Crawford Baillie, Farmer, died on 19 October 1893 and was buried on 24 October 1893. I think the undertaker was G Meachem. John was living in Henderson at the time of his death, no street address on file. He was buried in the Presbyterian Division C Row 2, Plot 7. I think his mother and sister are in Plot 5 & 6. He was 33 when he died.
Agnes Clark, widow, died on 27 February 1933 and was buried on the 28th of February 1933. The Funeral Director was Cameron Bartlett. Agnes was living in Arran Street in Avondale at the time of her death.She was buried in the Presbyterian Division C Row 2, between Plot 5 - 7.
I went to the plot but could find no headstone for them. It is in a very old part of the cemetery. While searching for them I came across a James Shaw whose wife was Helen. I have attached the photos for that headstone and where I believe Agnes is lying.
I'll double check the position with the office, they were very busy this morning.
Hope this is of some help,
:)
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Hi, again.
I think the plots you are after are between the tree and the foot marker (concrete corner of a Crombie Grave marker).
Here's another picture of the area. The tree on the left near where I've put the Row 2 label is the same tree as in the picture above, just a different angle.
Cheers,
:D
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As discussed on the previous thread, Shaws, Lauries and Clarks are well known old families in West Auckland, some of the ones you are finding are these old families, esp the Oratia ones.
:)
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Hi Kiwi Girl and althea
althea thanks for the URL. I received the burial records to day for Robert and Euphemia but there is a couple of discrepancy's, so at this stage I'm not a 100% sure it's them. Kiwi Girl if you are going to Waikumete would you still be able to have a look for the names of Robert and Euphemia Montgomery for me. It maybe a process of elimination to determine if the one's in Mangere are mine.
Thank you
Regards
lil
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what discrepancys ?
You really think this Rob and Phemie aren't yours. ???
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Here's what I found on James at the Archway site:
ARCHIVES NZ REFERENCE
Please quote this information to request this record
title years
SHAW James - Henderson - Farmer 1883 - 1883
agency series accession box / item record part alternative no.
BBAE 1587 Box25 646
OPEN ACCESS
Anyone can order & view this Record from the following office, please quote the Archives Reference (see above) or print this page.
RECORD LOCATION
(Record must be ordered & viewed in this office)
Archives New Zealand Auckland, Regional Office
95 Richard Pearse Drive
Mangere
Auckland 2022
PO Box 201103
Auckland Airport
Manukau 2150
Ph: 09 270 1100
Fax: 09 276 4472
Email: auckland@archives.govt.nz
Mangere is a wee hike for me, maybe one of the others could look it up :)
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Hi Kiwi Girl
I was referring to Waikumete , misunderstanding. I doubt there would be any further information from Mangere other than what I have already received.
Thanks
lil
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Hi Lil Growler, the stuff I just posted was for James Shaw, not your guys, sorry, it gets kind of mixed up in here some times ;) I can check yours locally. Where are you at?
:)
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Hi Kiwi Girl,
Thanks for the photos and the information on James and Ellen Shaw and Agnes Clarke. What a shame Agnes doesn't have a headstone. The photos are great anyway.
The James and Ellen Shaw are a mystery which I will have to try and keep searching for.
THanks to everyone else also that had added threads to this inquiry
Cheers Donna
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POO,
I would get someone to check out that probate for James Shaw.
L Growler, what was the problem with the deaths at Mangere ?, Sure as shooting look like the people YOU advertised for. ???
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Hi Kiwi Girl
Sorry, wires crossed here. Robert and Euphemia ( Ward ) Montgomery. Robert b 22 June 1865 died 1937, Euphemia b 1867 Midlothian. Would you mind checking Waikumete please. I did receive burial records form Mangere but not sure 100% if they are mine. Explanation follows just for you Mk_2 :)
I'm not sure if Robert and Euphemia are or aren't mine. The places of birth are wrong and there is the middle name ( which doesn't match with naming patterns ) and as far as I know these two don't have one also no maiden name mentioned for Euphemia. There maybe an explanation for this but I just don't know as all the burial records I have so far for NZ have mostly correct relevant information. Maybe I have just been fortunate so far to have correct details on my burial records. Roberts brother is buried in Waikumete and the rest of the Montgomery's so far are in Purewa. I think it's worth checking Waikumete.
I would so like them to be mine ;D as the ages match, but many times I have been advised to have proof, before I claim them as so. Other avenues for confirmation could be the Funeral Directors, if the records are still available for that time period and AKl Library for a death notice. I'd rather check these first before I obtain a death cert. Any other suggestions? :)
Thanks for your interest.
Regards
lil
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Are they buried next too each other ?
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maybe the info supplier didnt know where they came from.
you don't state the difference, ie Glasgow on yours, Angus on the NZ record.
I do find hard to believe there are TWO Robert & Phemie Montgomerys who were both born in same years and died same years. ???
If they are buried together as husband & wife.
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Hi MK_2
It may be clearly obvious to more experienced people, that more than one Robert and Euphemia is unlikely and it has crossed my mind and it may seem like a waste of time to look further. As I said most had maiden names or a middle name which ruled out misinformation if any on their burial certs. AS all Auckland city Cemetery records aren't on line it's a little difficult to say they are they only one's. ( Possibly are ) When I've checked further records and find something that connects them in my mind, I'll be happy. If nothing else I'll learn from it. They are buried together. You may very well be right, If no further information arises and I've checked all avenue's then I'll accept them as mine. This may be frustrating for some who believe the answer is clearly obvious ( and maybe right ) but let me continue as I am, for I will and I'll give you my findings when I'm finished.
Thanks
Lil
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I would just get one of the death certificates, I was going to say Euphemias, but if there are no relatives, it might be better to get Roberts, at least the wife would know some correct details.
:)
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HI MK_2
Thanks. I have just sent an email off to Auckland City Library regarding a Death Notice for Euphemia and Robert. I'll see what information this provides ( if there is a Death Notice ) as there are children from this marriage and from there will continue as you have suggested.
Again thanks
Regards
lil
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Hi lil growler
As per Althea's message regarding the NZSG fiche number Mangere B04.22
Montgomery Euphemia - 90 years, home duties, died 3 Oct, burial 5 Oct 1957, born Scotland
and
Montgomery Robert - 72 years, died 27 Oct, burial 29 Oct 1937, born Scotland
Hope this helps
Christine
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Hi Christine
Thank you for suppling this extra information. I do have these details on my Burial Records and a little more but I do appreciate your intentions to help :)
Also the URL for the 1937 probate that althea gave I think does belong to Euphmemia, when I first looked at the probate I thought it said Te Papa ( Wellington ) until I looked on google the address I received with the burial record for Onehunga and Te Papapa came up. I then realised it was Te papapa on the probate and rechecked, it was.
Thanks again
Regards
lil
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Hi
Just updating my progress. I have received some information today that confirms Robert and Euphemia at Mangere are indeed mine.
Thank you to those who have helped and provided suggestions.
Regards
lil