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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: E Caldwell on Wednesday 01 August 07 06:08 BST (UK)
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My father, Uncle and I recently visited Magilligan and Derry from the States. Since we had only relatively recently traced our Caldwell emigrant great grandfather 3x (William Caldwell 1823-1891) to his hometown in Tamlaght/Tamlaghtard. We walked what we think was the farm they rented. We are working diligently to plug in many missing holes and would appreciate any help. One thing I particularly found disouraging was the number of Caldwells in Derry & nearby Antrim. Clearly, we have our work cut of for us.
William Caldwell b. 1823, emigrated 1843.
Brothers Daniel (family legend has him dying young), Alexander (thought to be the one who inherited the land) and a sister.
Dad of William Caldwell is John Caldwell (no birthdate but we guess somewhere around 1790s.
We have a record of John Caldwell helping to found the Magilligan Presbyterian Church in 1813 and two Caldwell spinsters are buried there (we think they are Alexander Caldwell's daughers).
Oddly, however, Alexander, John nor Daniel Caldwell were buried there.
A straight shot from the Caldwell farm along the old road is a Church of Ireland parish - Tamlaughtard. This Church is only several hundred yards from the farm and is much older so if these Caldwells stayed on the same land, or near there, this seems like a logical church for them. In fact, we found Luke and Robert Caldwell on the Vestry there in the 1700s.
Challenge is to try to tie John to any of them. We were not succesful in locating the burial place for John Caldwell, Alexander Caldwell, Daniel Caldwell or their sister.
If anyone can provide any help or suggestions, I would be very grateful. Having visited this beautiful place for the first time and tracing it back through my blood line has increased my desire to tie out as much of my Irish roots as I can.
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Welcome to Rootschat and glad you enjoyed your visit to County Derry.
We have a record of John Caldwell helping to found the Magilligan Presbyterian Church in 1813 and two Caldwell spinsters are buried there (we think they are Alexander Caldwell's daughers).
Oddly, however, Alexander, John nor Daniel Caldwell were buried there.
A straight shot from the Caldwell farm along the old road is a Church of Ireland parish - Tamlaughtard. This Church is only several hundred yards from the farm and is much older so if these Caldwells stayed on the same land, or near there, this seems like a logical church for them. In fact, we found Luke and Robert Caldwell on the Vestry there in the 1700s.
Challenge is to try to tie John to any of them. We were not succesful in locating the burial place for John Caldwell, Alexander Caldwell, Daniel Caldwell or their sister.
There may be many of your relatives, including John, Alexander & Daniel, buried in Magilligan Presbyterian churchyard but perhaps no headsgtones or no surviving headstones. Or equally they could be buired at Church of Ireland burying ground with no headstones. They might or might not be reorded in the burial register (but Presbyterian Churches did not, and most still do not, keep burial registers).
If you Caldwells were always Presbyterian they would not have attended the Church of Ireland but could certainly be buried there. Years ago Presbyterians had to pay tithes to the Established Church (C. of I.) and were therefore entitled to be buried there.
Have you checked the 1831 census for the area to see which Caldwells were there? Although 1901 is the 1st complete census for all Ireland small fragments of earlier records did survive and for Co. Derry there is 1831. The census was more a religious census in that it only lists, under townland, head of household, number of males and females, and religion.
Have you checked the church records?
There is a Session Book for Magilligan Presbyterian Church (1814-45, 1851-1920), baptisms (1851-1920), lists of communicants (with session minutes & deaths 1890s), congregational census (1850). Also a congregaional census 1855.
Magilligan Church of Ireland- marriages 1820-26,1832-34; burials 1824-29, 183-34, 1837, 1844-1962. Vestry book 1820-43, 1844-1870, 1855-1897. Baptisms 1844-1961. Session book 1813-1857 contains baptisms 1814-54, 1857; marriages 1814-45, 1846-1923; members lists 1814/15, 1836; committee minutes 1823-28, etc.
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Did you check Tamlaght Old Burying Ground for Caldwell headstones? A very old burying ground with all religions but many of the old stones could be difficult or impossible to read.
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Aghadowey, thanks so much for responding. I have followed you on this thread and was hoping you would. Most of those avenues we have followed. Is the Tamlaght Old Burying Ground either the St. Aidan's or Tamlatard Parish Church of Ireland cemetery or something else that we missed?
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Is the Tamlaght Old Burying Ground either the St. Aidan's or Tamlatard Parish Church of Ireland cemetery or something else that we missed?
There are 4 cemeteries in the area: 1) Church of Ireland; 2) Magilligan Presbyterian; 3)St. Aidan's (Roman Catholic) & 4) Tamlaghtard old Burying-ground that I mentioned- all religions would have been buried here. Not sure what condition the stones are in or even how many survive there.
Have been going through some old gravestone inscriptions for Co.Derry and found in St. Aidan's: 'Here lies the body of Mary Browster who departed this life November 12 1792 aged 31 years. Also the body of her husband Daniel Browster of Ballyleighry who departed this life July 5 1838 aged 76 years. Also his daughter Margaret CALDWELL who died August 1858 aged 71 years. Also of Jane, wife of Alexander CALDWELL of Ballyleighry, who died 17 October 1858 aged 40 years.' (Not sure if this is copied correctly but it might be of interest)
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That looks like a burial ground that we somehow missed. I was at that grave in St. Aiden's not even a week ago. Thanks for that find, however. The Browsters were the farm just up the hill from the Caldwell farm we found and walked. The woman married there is my great grandmother 4x. Her husband was John, the oldest Caldwell we can trace concretely and who we are eagerly trying to tie to a church or something to tie him to the host of Caldwells we have uncovered in the neighborhood in the 1700s.
It was very interesting to us that our family wouldn't go to the Tamlatard Church of Ireland because there is an old road leading from the farm directly to the church. We found 3 Caldwells in the vestry notes there but have not as of yet been able to link them up our family line with anything concrete - Robert, Luke & William - though we have little doubt that they are in our line of Caldwells. We are connected to the Caldwell who was one of the founders of the Presbyterian Church down the hill in Magilligan in 1813 (that was the husband of Margaret Caldwell who you found in St. Aidens) but haven't tied our Caldwells to any other church. The Magilligan Presby Church paster who we spoke with thought that our family probably trekked to the Presbyterian Church over the hill in Dunaboe but that 5 miles seems like a long trek to make.
Maybe one of the keys is to find out if the old burial ground contains any additional relevant informaiton. Any recommendation on how we would go about that - for example, would there be any records contained of those graves (assuming that the old ones are now illegible)?
Thanks so much again.
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If your Caldwells were Presbyterian they would not have attended a Church of Ireland church no matter how close it was the their farm. What townland did they actually live in? I have a few townland maps which I could check and might be able to suggest other possible Presbyterian churches within range. The problem is not just going to be finding a church but seeing if it's records still exist for the period you want to search.
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We are really intrigued by the possibility here that there may be another Magilligan burial ground that we missed. Do you know where the Tamlaghtard 'old burial ground' that you mention is located?
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All the information you need is freely available on the web.
The History from Headstones website tells us that the old graveyard is at map ref C678313.
You can find this on multimap:
www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=55.1246&lon=-6.935&scale=25000&icon=x
Adrian
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If you look at the History of Headstones and their maps, the "Tamlaught old burial ground" seems to be right where St. Aidens is and since I don't see any other reference to the burial ground of St. Aidens, assume them to be one and the same.
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The map on History from Headstones website is at least better than what comes up on multimap- a red circle in the middle of nowhere, so vague that it would be impossible to find.
Will get out the townland map and get a location for you.
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aghadowey
I don't think map reference C678313 is vague - OK it's only to the nearest 100 metres, but that is not a very large area!
Adrian
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E caldwell
They may very well be the same place.
Have a look at this photo of St Aidans - the building looks well old !
http://www.ccght.org/environmental_management/areas_of_outstanding_natural_beauty/binevenagh/cultural_heritage/?lang=en
Adrian
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Yep, that is the same place we have been and has our great 3x grandmother. Rats. We were hoping there was a burial ground that we had missed. Okay, now we will go back to looking for John Caldwell, Alexander Caldwell and other relatives at some other sites nearby like in Dunboe. Thanks again for your help.
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County Londonderry Sources for Family History lists 4 graveyards in the area (which I've mentioned above).
My comment about multimap was not about the grid reference but about how vague the red circle in the middle of nowhere is in regard to finding the location.
The 3 graveyards on History from Headstones:
-Tamlaghtard C. of I.- Duncrun (townland)- ref. C687323
-Magilligan Presbyterian- Margymonaghan- C675336
-Old Tamlaghtard- Tamlaghtard- C678313
Historic Monuments list:
-Duncrun (townland)- church site & cross-cardved stone: Church Hill- ref. C6817 3237
-Tamlaght (Magilligan)- Tamlaghtard church, Saint's grave & holy well- ref. C67783140
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aghadowey
The red circle on multimap should on your screen be superimposed on the OS 1:50,000 map (displayed at 1:25,000), showing the topography of the area, and the Irish Grid. That is what I see when I use the multimap link.
In the info you have listed there appear to be only three graveyards, as confirmed by E Caldwell's experience on site. Mapref 678313 in one of the lists would appear to be the same as mapref 67783140 in your other list. The Historic Monuments list does not identify any graveyard - its descriptions are a little confusing: the first site appears to be the CofI church, though referred to as a site; the second site appears to be the old church, and St Aidans RC.
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Sorry but I tried Multimap link again and all I get is the red circle nearly in the middle of nowhere...
It does look like there are only 3 graveyards in the area but as I said Brian Mitchell's book County Londonderry Sources for Family History list four (r.c., C. of I., Presb. & public) but it would not be the 1st time the Genealogy Centre in Derry made a horrible mistake.
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Hi E. Caldwell,
I looked up the 1831 census of Co. Londonderryfor caldwells in the Magilligan area and found none. However I did find seven Caldwells in the parish of Tamlaght O'Crilly in the Maghera area and many others in other parishes.
Regarding graveyards in the Magilligan area: I am only aware of three and I was brought up in the area. One is the Presbyterian, One is the Church of Ireland and the Third is the Roman Catholic. The old Roman Catholic church was taken over by the Protestant settlers about 1613 and used for worship until they built the C of I church where you saw it. The old church was handed back to the R.c. church and they were helped to build the church which is there now. I am unsure of dates for this but many of the graves in the raised part of that church will contain protestant burials.
I do not know if this helps or confuses you further but drop me a line if I can help any more.
Regards
Morrison Stewart
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Hi E Caldwell,
Looking through some other queries I came across my home townland in a misspelt parish name which should have been Tamlaghtard. I have now got four names for you from 1831.
John Ballylaghr(sic)
John Tercreevan
Jonn Lamlaghtarde (sic) the incorrect spelling
Widow Caldwell Lamlaghtarde
Regards
Morrison Stewart
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Thanks Kingskerswell. This process is not easy and being so new to it, we are grateful for any insight from folks who have been at this for longer. We are leaning toward the theory that though they later became Presbyterians who were involved in the Magilligan Presbyterian Church when it was founded, the Caldwells from Tamlaghtard (or at least some of them), where with the Church of Ireland and rolled the 300 yards down the road to the Tamlaghtard Church of Ireland. Learning more about the politics of the Church of Ireland in Northern Ireland, and the political upheaval in the late 18th century in that region, there seems evidence to suggest that folks in the area could have switched churches during that period. As one of us speculated, perhaps the Church of Ireland became synonymous with the oppressive English rule and the baronet landowners and at some point in this period our own ancestors abandoned that church for the more radical Presbyterian Church.
This is one possible theory for why we have 3 Caldwells listed on the vestry of the Tamlaghtard Church of Ireland in the 18th century.
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It is possible that not all on C. of I Vestry lists were members of that church.
My husband's family have always and all been Presbyterian but lived near the Chruch of Ireland and we have found that at least one ancestor in early 1800s was on vestry list. At the same time he paid stipend and attended Presbyterian church but was possibly buried in family plot in Church of Ireland burying-ground.
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Graveyards of the established church were available to all religions - in theory !! Rectors could make it unpleasant for non-CofI to bury their dead, eg by refusing to permit non-CofI ritual.
I agree with aghadowey about equivocation between Presbyterian and CofI. At the end of the 18th century one of my relatives crossed the Sperrins to marry his beloved: when he found that the CofI Rector was not available, he roused the non-conforming minister to perform the marriage ceremony. Desperate measures for desperate times!
Adrian
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In earlier times Presbyterians had to pay tithes to the Established Church (Church of Ireland) but were entitled to burial in Parish Church ground. Also, some Presbyterian churches did not have their own burying-ground. Some C. of I. churches seemed to keep a 'Presbyterian' section for burials.
Very few Presbyterians would have gone to C. of I. Rector to get married, usually only if one of the couple were C. of I., and would have gone to Registry Office or other Presbyterian minister instead. Even know of cases in 1700s were Presbyterians went to R.C. priest to marry instead of C. of I. rector- including the sister of a Presbyterian minister.
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i am a native of magilligan. u should look at the graveyard in a field to the right as u head to the top of the limestone road. it is hid in a field and very old there is half burried stones and a standing templer stone with a clear distinctive red cross still present. the yard is in a field and hidden behind a small hill
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Hi,
I think that this must be a burial ground associated with the ancient Abbey of Duncrun.
Regards
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no this is where the old christian church was, at that time. not roman catholic , they would not affialiate with rome. all denominations were burried there up untill the late 17th. an old church did stand there then became church of ireland after the wars with the o neils after1640s. the ancient abbey is site is currently hid in the forest. it was taken down after the disestablishment and used to build a long house beside the ruins. in the present ruins there is an actual base of a round tower.
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Looking at Griffiths maps for the 1850s on this site http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
it looks like Kingskerswell is right. It clearly shows the Abbey ruins beside Church Hill on the right hand side of Limestone Road heading from Seacoast Road to Duncrun Road. The modern OS map shows a cross at this location (presumable the templar stone mentioned). The present Church of Ireland is on the left hand side of the same road at its junction with Duncrun Road.
Griffith doesn't show a burial ground at the abbey, though. Only at the CoI (Tamlaghtard) and at the RC church on down the Duncrun Road (Old Tamlaghtard) - even the Presbyterian graveyard is not shown, although the church and associated school are.
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Hi,
My understanding is that the old ruin in the grounds of St.Aidans is the church initially taken from the Catholics and used by Cof I and Presbyeterians until the Earl Bishop organised the building of the current CofI when St Aidans was given back to the Catholics and the Earl Bishop assisted in building the current St.Aidans. There are certainly Protestant graves in the burial ground, especially near the old ruin.
Regards
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Thanks everyone for the input. I wish that I had read this when you first posted it because my father was back in Dublin at Prioni and also at a B & B in Castlerock performing more research to try to unearth further clues. We now know that our Caldwells were in Magilligan, Tircrevan & Ballyleighery for we believe over 100 years. The big mystery/hope is that many of them are buried in some yet unidentified graves. They were tenants so it is possible that they did not have the money for stones but we have tied them to several large tracts of land, multiple structures and even notes of servants in the 1800s so we think it is more likely that they are buried with stones somewhere but we have not yet found them.
I am intrigued by stmccmagilligan's referencing a hidden graveyard up a limestone road. Can you let me know where that is so we can look into that further? Thanks so much for all of your help.
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you have the coi church and grave yard on the left of the limestone rd as you go up the hill. on the other side is a hidden very old yard. it is hard to get to as a streem and big hedge sre in the way. but if tou go to the top of the limestone road and park at the coi lane you can easilly walk over to the other side of the limestone road and go into the field. all denominations were burried there. the field belongs to the mcdivits who own the bunglow on the right. they will point help u out if you get a bit lost
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stmcmagillgan, if that is right, then that is potentially very, very interesting. Our family farm is literally a couple of hundred hards from the COI church and we have our family for over 100 years in that part of Magilligan. From the parking area at the COI, where is it in relation to where Limestone Rd and Duncrun Road meet?
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park at the church then go back up to the duncrun road. walk down the hill to the top of the limestone road. then keep going up the duncrun road till you find a way into the field on the right hand side. the site is in that field. there is gravestones partially covered over by earth. tircrevan road is on up the duncrun road. where was your traced caudwell house as my uncle farms on the tircrevan road and i could ask around. i farm in magilligan only a mile form the limestone road i a was told that that is where everyone was burried before the presbyterian church, presbyterians would also have gone to 1st dunboe church in articlave and ballykelly pres to worship. ill look up some marriage records i have got for thoes churches.
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Our family farmed in Tircrevan and most recently (most of the 1800s), off Duncrun Road, near Tircrevan Road. We have looked at Dunboe in Articlave (been there several times) and Ballykelly (also a couple of times). No luck. We have the mother of our Caldwell immigrant (Margaret Caldwell), listed on a tomb in St. Aidens. No other Caldwells are there. The brother of the immigrant Caldwell had two spinster daughters and they are buried in Magilligan Presby Church. Their father, Alexander Caldwell, ran the farm for most of the 1800s and died in 1899 - but even his grave is missing. At some point in the 1800s he gave or sold the farm to the Brewsters/Browsters. So we think that all of these Caldwells - all the way through Alexander Caldwell - are buried somewhere that we are not finding them.
I think that the old graveyard you mention is probably a lot older than when we are looking (we know Caldwells were in Magiligan for most of the 1700s until much later and think that they are all related - and hope that finding the missing graveyard will help us solve some puzzles.
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E. Caldwell,
I have been doing some checking on names and can find the death of your Alexander Caldwell registered in Limavady registrars office. It gives his birth date as 1818, probably based on his supposed age. However I have found a marriage of an Alexander Caldwell to JANE FLEMING in Magilligan Presbyterian Church on 10 Oct 1850 and in the 1858 Griffith valuation Alexander Caldwell is farming in the townland of Lower Ballyleighery which is slightly closer to the Church of Ireland than Tircreven.
I may be on to the wrong Alexander Caldwell but this was the only one(s) I could find with a Magilligan connection.
Regards
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E. Caldwell,
Looking through a book which gives a short history of the Presbyterian Church in Magilligan I came across a couple of names about which you may already be aware. Elizabeth Caldwell was the wife of the Rev.Thomas Greer of Dunboe and the daughter of Captain A Caldwell of Magilligan. Along with the Rev. Robert Rentoul of Ballykelly the Rev. Greer was instrumental in getting the first Presbyterian Meeting House built in Magilligan in 1803.
Also in 1813 Alexander Caldwell of Magilligan asked the Presbytery of The Route, in whose charge the infant church was, for supplies i.e. a permanent minister as up until then the Rev. Greer, the Rev Rentoul and the Rev Dill of Drumachose had taken it in turn to hold services in Magilligan.
Regards
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the graveyard is pre 1800. have you contacted david brewster he now lets out that land. he could help u as his father was a very keen historian. Maybe the caldwells were burried on there own land, in ballymulholland which is the land on the right of the presbyterian church towards the point. Graves were unearthed there in the 1950s and 60s, towards the shore. My granda told me that these where the graves of the people who farmed there. also in 1640 there is an account of people at the point being attacked by british royalists who came over from donegal, these graves were found in the sand hills which is now mod ground.
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The Caldwell farm in the 19th century was across from the intersection of Duncrun and Leighery roads. The information about graves on farms unearthed in the 50s and 60s, toward the shore, is also potentially very interesting to us, since we have records of Caldwells down toward Tircrevan into the 1700s. We spoke with several locals on multiple occasions, *, *, * & * and none of them ever mentioned anything about graves on farms or the graveyard up off Limestone Road. I have been in touch with David B. and even Robert F. in this search for clues. So far, on the issue of the absence of graves for over a dozen Caldwells in Magilligan, your suggestion that there are some graves on farms and also an older graveyard (Limestone Rd & Duncrun), is the most interesting to me. Our search has carried us well outside of Magilligan for these graves or clues, right now we are tracing newly discovered records of John Caldwell in 1830 renting land near Knockmult & Formoyle. But since we believe we are the first Caldwells to go back looking for this line of Magilligan Caldwells in a century and a half, chances are that if these graves are there, chances are that they are buried or at least in disrepair.
We also have found nothing to tie Elizabeth Caldwell or Captain A Caldwell from Dunboe to our line in Magilligan - although naturally with Dunboe being the closest Presby Church (pre-Magilligan Presby), we too have them as possible relatives.
One theory I initially had after climbing to the vista on the cliff overlooking the farm area in Magilligan was that our Caldwells probably would have opted to walk down to Ballykelly because even though it would have been a longer walk, it would have at least been a flat walk (as opposed to the hike to Dunboe). Unfortunately, that theory proved naive - no records of Caldwells in Ballykelly.
Kingkerswell, thanks for helping. The Alexander Caldwell you found is the brother of my great-great-great grandfather (the Caldwell who emigrated). We still think that he is our best bet because we know that he died in 1899, had two daughters and a sizable piece of land. We should be able to find his grave - although we have had no luck on that yet.
Moderator's Comment: names removed as it is against Rootschat policy to post names and details of living people.
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check { results of archaeological monitoring of road repair works at point road, magilligan} a pdf file will open, look at the digs carried out in the past. may be off interest. ballymulholland is just down from the tircreven road. a did in 1965 is not on this. this unearthed 3 sets of remains on the recedding dunes at ballymulholland.up to 40 years ago there used to be extensive sand dunes faceing the lough. erosion from the dredging climate change has almost lost these dunes. lenamore dunes are gone, ballymulholland dunes are almost all gone
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Hi,
The graves in the dunes may very well be the results of the depradations of the Laggan Army, a large group of Presbyterians under the command of two professional soldiers, Sir Robert and Sir William Stewart who came from the area between Lifford and Londonderry on the west side of the River Foyle in Co. Donegal, during the Irish uprising in 1641/42. They had relieved Strabane, picked up reinforcements at Londonderry, relieved Limavady then the McClellands at Ballycastle in Aghanloo and were on their way to relieve Coleraine when they turned back and relieved Dungiven. I am unsure why they turned back but it may have been because the tide was in and the only way from Magilligan to Coleraine in those days was along the shore beneath the cliffs at Downhill, cut off at high tide or in bad weather. The current road, the Lions Brae, was not built until the early 1850s when the railway tunnel was constructed through the Cliffs.
Stmcmagilligan I will send you a PM about meeting up at your convenience to visit the site of the old monastry and having a look at the graveyard.
Regards
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I pulled up the .pdf. Fascinating, but it looks too old to be of much use. We have traced our Caldwells, or Caldwells we have reason to think to be related to us in Magilligan to well into the 1700s, current thinking according to our research is below:
-Spinster sister Caldwells buried at Magilligan Presby Church -
-William/Alexander - brothers born in early 1800s and on the book at Magilligan Presbyterian Church - Alexander is father of spinsters and we have record of his marriage and date of death from newspapers, but no grave
-Magaret Brewster Caldwell - buried St. Aidans, died young, wife to John Caldwell, mother to William/Alexander
-John Caldwell Jr., born late 1700s, father to William/Alexander
-John Caldwell Sr., probably born mid 1700s, died in 1840s at 80 years old
-Robert Caldwell, 1720s/30s birth, death around 1800
-Robert or David Caldwell 1690s - 1760s
William or Hugh 1670s - 1740s
Hugh, Sam, William? born in Scotland 1630s/40s
Of course, each of these Caldwells had families. That translates to a lot of Caldwells in Magilligan for almost 200 years and you can get a sense for why the lack of graves is so perplexing.
The possibility that there was a Caldwell plot on one of the farms is interesting but as I mentioned, something that no Magilligan resident had previously mentioned.
Thanks for helping us continue this quest.
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E. Caldwell,
Being local I have more time than you to linger so in the next few days I will have a look at the graves in Tamlaghtard, the Presbyterian Church and St. Aidan's and let you if I come across anything extra.
Regards
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Thanks Kingskerswell. I have been multiple times to all 3 of those over the past 4 years. But your effort is very generous and appreciated. I am not sure how we will be able to make inquiries about the graveyard stmccmilligan mentions or follow up on the graves that are mentioned as being unearthed out near the point. If they are pre-1700s, then undoubtedly erosion will render them unreadable. But as I mentioned, with so many of our Caldwells there in the 1700s and early 1800s, I am clinging to a hope that somewhere in the area there will be a number of Caldwell graves (doesn't make as much sense to me that generations of Caldwells farmed in the Tircrevan/Lower Ballyleighery area but chose to be buried in a Presby Church somewhere beyond Ballykelly or Dunboe).
The living Brewster relative thinks that the Caldwell farm was very small per his recollection but we have found in the records that much of the current Br farm is on land that for most of the 1800s was recorded as being worked by Alexander/John Caldwell. Since Alexander Caldwell's mother was a Brewster/Browster, and because Alexander did not have any male heirs, we speculate that at some point in the 1800s he worked out a deal with the Brewster relatives for the land. None of that is really important for our work, however, because what we really want to do is find some way to tie the Caldwells I listed together.
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I think you have to consider that many old gravestones simply no longer exist or are illegible. In a local parish church near us were 8 family headstones (newspaper article in early 1900s mentions them) but only 2 survive. Needless to say they aren't the ones I'd really like to see!
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I accept that likelihood. Especially if no Caldwell has been around to care for those graves since maybe 1930. But I have to think that at a minimum I would be able to find Alexander Caldwell's grave, who died in 1899 and had two daughters who survived him (who presumably cared for his grave until their deaths later in the 20th century).
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It's surprising that some families/people don't seem to get around to putting up headstones, adding further inscriptions, etc.
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That was our initial thought - that the Caldwells in Magilligan were poor and hence the possibility of finding headstones would be even more remote. But looking at the various maps we have from PRONI, we have fairly decent sized farms being attributed to Caldwells for much of this period. Wouldn't it be somewhat unlikely that larger farm owners to both have the resources and the desire to have a grave with a headstone? I can also see maybe one or two Caldwells not spending the money on a headstone, for some reason or another, but with so many in the area, it is more difficult to imagine that many larger farmers would pass on graves. The Caldwell who emigrated had a large farm in Wisconsin and purchased his family and himself a fine headstone in the latter part of the 1800s. It would be odd for him to be the only one in the family who placed meaning on a headstone with an inscription.
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When I mentioned that some families weren't good at erecting headstones it wasn't limited to property or social class. Obviously many poor families would not have been able to spend money for such a 'luxury' although often gravestones were erected with money sent from overseas (and this is reflected in the wording such as 'erected by their son in Australia', etc.)
Also, some families might put up a marker with simple words such as 'Caldwell Family Burying Ground' or 'Caldwell.' One very well-to-do family I traced did this (fortunately though they kept very good records in the family Bible) but nearby a family that would have had very little extra cash have a lovely headstone with lots of names and dates recorded.
Headstones were not always erected soon after the death of the 1st person in the plot either (read through the stones in a graveyard and notice that the deaths listed do not always appear in chronological order.) Checking headstone dates with newspaper notices there can be errors a year or more off.
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Hi,
Aghadowey's suggestion prompted me to look up the BMDs in the Londonderry Sentinel and it gives "Jane Caldwell died 17 Oct 1858. She was the wife of Alexander Caldwell of Ballyleighry, Magilligan". This only confirms the gravestone inscription which Aghadowey gave on 1 Aug 2009.
Regards
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Yes, that is the Alexander we know who died in 1899 but still do not have his grave. Aghadowey raised an interesting point. In Limavady at the Presby Church there are three graves with just "Caldwell". Unfortunately, they lost a lot of the records at that church so we do not know what Caldwells those graves are but it definitely could be the Alexander Caldwell you mention. In looking at the grave, as imprecise as my judgment may be, it looks like it could be about 100 years old.
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Thank you to all for this excellent discourse on the ancient graveyards of Magilligan, which has been a great help to me, far away in the USA. My Sweeney, McNally, Redgate, and Canning ancestors are buried at St. Aidan's and (probably) the COI graveyard. I manage a very old cemetery in Pennsylvania, and I hope I might offer some advice based on my own experience. Your ancestors might well have erected a gravestone which is still there, but "invisible."
Frequently gravestones become unstable, fall, and are simply left in place by caretakers. Within a very few years, their weight pushes them down into the soil a few inches and they are quickly covered by a layer of grass sod and become invisible. Thus, you might look at a spot where your ancestors ought to be and see nothing, when in fact there are gravestones a few inches (usually four to six inches) under the grass. You can detect them by taking a thin but strong metal skewer (like for shishkabob), probing the soil, to see if you can detect the general outline of such a stone a few inches down. (Of course, Irish graveyards are full of stones of all types, but the outline of a fallen gravestone is fairly distinctive.) If you discover a gravestone, you do have to get the permission of the cemetery caretaker to cut the sod and roll it back to uncover it, but it is usually worth the effort, especially if the stone fell face down and the inscription has been protected from the elements for a long time. No harm is done to the grave site, you can just roll the sod back after. (Of course, if the stone fell face down, you'll need some help to gently turn it over to read the inscription. Those things are hundreds and even over a thousand pounds in weight.)
I look forward to following your continuing discussion.
Sincerely, Barbara Miller, Allentown, PA
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just been up to the old graveyard on the right hand side of the lenamore road . it has been ploughed up. i believe this is a disgrace, there is a couple still standing in the hedge along with my earlier templer cross stone. not all farmers have such dissregard for historical places.
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Ah, that is so sad. Thanks for looking. The importance of these graveyards is just, very sadly, missed by some people.
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Did you get a sense for the stones that you saw for how old they might be?
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this was a very old graveyard deff no one burried there in the last 2 hundred years, they must have been either knocked into the ground or piled up in the hedge, will take a closer look when i get time. we used to play round them 20 years ago when going fishin up the lake
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It would make some sense to me that those graves are very, very old (pre-dating 1700) because I have read references to such an old graveyard. It will be helpful to approximate the date of them because if they are that old, I would rule it out as a source for missing Caldwell graves knowing that there were lots of Caldwells near there in the 1700s and 1800s. My theory is that with so many Caldwells in the area during that time period and no found graves, that either Aghadowey is right and they (a) did not have graves; (b) just purchased a stone, no inscription; or (c) they are all in a family plot somewhere. I am still hopeful that the last theory is the correct one and we just have not found them yet. But I accept the reality that it could be (b). Magilliganlass had a very helpful suggestion that I will see if I can use next time I go to St. Aidans and Tamlaghtard. The grave in St. Aidans that lists my great, great, great, great Grandmother, Margaret Caldwell, is close to the church and on a slope with nothing around it. It is possible that there are other hidden graves there. But I think that is not likely because for much of this period St. Aidans was Catholic and we know that our Caldwells were Presby Scots. I am more curious about using that method at Tamlaghtard, however, because there are large plots in that graveyard where you would expect to find graves but do not find any. Either they are buried or have been otherwise destroyed. And that church is a couple of hundred yards from the biggest recorded Caldwell farm in the 1800s. We have viewed the record book at Tamlaghtard and have 3 Caldwells listed at this time - which is a little odd because it was CoI. But it pre-dates Magilligan Presby Church and so it looks to us like they would have had to pick between Dunboe, Ballykelly, or find some family connection to the CoI which gave them the moral justification to attend Tamlaghtard. Maybe not likely, but a possibility nonetheless.
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We have viewed the record book at Tamlaghtard and have 3 Caldwells listed at this time - which is a little odd because it was CoI.
Many Church of Ireland burial registers did not include Presbyterian burials.
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E caldwell.
The idea of Presbyterians going to Dunboe (no road until the 1850s and the coastal sand route dependant on tide and weather) or to Ballykelly ( no bridge at Bellarena over the river Roe until early 1800s so a 10-12 mile trudge through Limavady, passed Drumachose Presbyterian Church) is unlikely. I think that they would have relied on itinerant preachers coming to them in the 1700s and they would meet in someone's house as they did all over Ireland. This is the origin of the old term for a Presbyterian church in Ireland "meeting house". I think that I may have already posted information on the ministers of Ballykelly, Dunboe and Drumachose carrying out this function.
As the grave cannot be found in Magilligan I do not think that I would look any further than Drumachose.
Regards
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Thanks Kingskerswell for the input. We have heard that from some but also heard from various ministers that both Ballykelly & Dunboe had members from Magilligan pre-establishment of the Magilligan Presby Church.
I think now it might be worthwhile to spend time taking records of Caldwell lands in Tircrevan and Lower Ballyleighery, match up the same with current farms, and talk to those farmers about possible stones in their fields that might be graves - following up on stmccmilligan's note that certain farms in Magilligan are known to have some graves on them.
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The farm which is now in the hands of the brewsters is very big, they would not have been poor, a very old long house stood there up untill ten years ago. the brewsters let it go to waste and in the end two trees where growing out of the roof. can you pinpoint out any of the other caldwell farms please or where do u get this info and will have a look. there is referance to the caldwell name in my family. my grandas granda was called caldwell mccracken, and my grandas brother was called thomas caldwell mcracken. all burried in magilligan presbyterian grave yard
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found out that grandas great great granda was
called john mccracken and he married nancy caldwell in 9th march 1840 at dunboe. can you trace her in your tree at all. they had a son whom they called caldwell mccracken
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St Aidan’s Mixed Graveyard: Gravestone
Mary 12 Nov 1792 (31), her husband Daniel of Ballyleighry July 3
1838 (76), her daughter Margaret Caldwell 27 Aug 1858 (71), Jane
wife of Alex Caldwell 17 Oct 1858 (40
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St Aidan’s Mixed Graveyard: Gravestone
Mary 12 Nov 1792 (31), her husband Daniel of Ballyleighry July 3
1838 (76), her daughter Margaret Caldwell 27 Aug 1858 (71), Jane
wife of Alex Caldwell 17 Oct 1858 (40
Already posted on this thread (reply #4)-
St. Aidan's: 'Here lies the body of Mary Browster who departed this life November 12 1792 aged 31 years. Also the body of her husband Daniel Browster of Ballyleighry who departed this life July 5 1838 aged 76 years. Also his daughter Margaret CALDWELL who died August 1858 aged 71 years. Also of Jane, wife of Alexander CALDWELL of Ballyleighry, who died 17 October 1858 aged 40 years.'
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The McCracken link to Magilligan Caldwells is very interesting and I hope it can lead to some clues that help me tie out my Magilligan Caldwell ancestors to them. I believe that the Nancy Caldwell who married John McCracken is an Aunt of my emigrant Caldwell (William Caldwell - baptized in Magilligan Presby). But it may not be because we have seen records in Magilligan Presby of a Nancy Caldwell and her neice going to America.
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I have been researching a Norris family from Carrowbeg, Inishowen and there is a connection to the Caldwell family of Tircreevan, Magilligan. I came across this posting on the Caldwells and although inactive for a while I think we may be dealing with the same family?
William Caldwell (son of John & Margaret Caldwell) died 20 Feb 1891 in Montrose, Dane County, Wisconsin. According to a bio in the History of Dane County he was born in the parish of Magilligan Co L'Derry in Dec 1825 and emigrated 1843. He married:
1. Margaret Norris (born Donegal) in Exeter, Green Co, Wisconsin in 1851 and that had a son William Norris Caldwell 9 Dec 1851. Margaret N Caldwell died Oct 1852
2. Mary J Shepherd 17 Dec 1868 in Montrose, Dane Co, Wisconsin & they had issue a dau Mgt H Caldwell c.1871
Margaret Norris (1834-1852) 1st wife of Wm Caldwell was the daughter of William Norris (c1796-1868) of Carrowbeg by his wife Margaret Kane (c1801-before 1841) who was from the Kane family of Lenamore, Magilligan (Kane family moved from Lenamore to Brogalsco in Myroe where descendants live today).
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Someone else mentioned a Caldwell McCracken in this thread (not sure if it is the same Caldwell McCracken but there is bound to be a connection).
Margaret Kane Norris (c1801-before 1841) had a brother William Kane of Lenamore (c1808-1876):
This William Kane married twice: (no issue as far as I can tell).
1. Margaret Robinson in 1850 Magilligan P (she died before 1869)
2. Elizabeth Doherty (c1825-1885) in 1869 Magilligan P.
The latter Elizabeth Doherty's sister Eleanor Hesther Doherty (c1832-1885) was the wife of Caldwell McCracken (c1812-1890).
A lot of Magilligan families are connected to local families in the parish and there is a very big Inishowen connection. For those with families in Inishowen from say Moville to Carndonagh it is well worth checking the Magilligan Presbyterian registers as the minister was very thorough in recording family relationships.
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Dear Gortinana
Where did you get the information for Caldwell McCracken. I have his birth in the 1840s and living in magilligan. where did your date come from? Caldwell is my gggf
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Dear Gortinana
Where did you get the information for Caldwell McCracken. I have his birth in the 1840s and living in magilligan. where did your date come from? Caldwell is my gggf
From a death index on the GRONI platform:
Caldwell McCracken (Bellerana DED, Limavady) died 19 Nov 1890 aged 78 years
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wow. who do you then believe Caldwell was named after? and do you think there is a link to Donegal?
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According to his marriage certificate of 1863 Caldwell McCracken was the son of Thomas McCracken.
I can find a Thomas McCracken in the 1831 census in Upper Drummons:
No 8. Daniel Doherty 5m/3f 8RC
No 9. Thos McCracken 5m/1f 1male servant 6P & 1RC
Then in the 1855 census of the Magilligan Presbyterian congregation we have the following:
Drumahorgan
Thomas McCracken, wife Doherty - children John, George, Caldwell.
So if this is the same family (and I think it is) I suspect that Thomas McCracken's mother was a Caldwell (supposition of course but a real possibility).
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many thanks this is brilliant. is there a marriage cert for Thomas at all?
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many thanks this is brilliant. is there a marriage cert for Thomas at all?
I suspect not unless there is something in the Magilligan Presbyterian registers.
Records of civil marriages (Protestant) began 1845 and all other denominations after 1864.
I suspect there is a lot more information in the Magilligan Presbyterian registers. Have you ever checked them? They are very good from 1814 onwards.
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Thanks. This is brilliant. We thought that Thomas born 1808 was father to Caldwell.
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Sorry just to reply, my family still farm at lenamore, in magilligan. There is a monument up the the Kane's who farmed at lenamore outside magilligan Presbyterian Church
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Kinkerswell I have a Caldwell McCracken born 1812 father of Thomas. I was wondering where or if anyone has info on Captain H Calwell or This Aleander Caldwell. I hit a bick wall here and would like to find if one of these two men had a daughter married to my Thomas. I no info on Thomas apart from father to Caldwell.
"Also in 1813 Alexander Caldwell of Magilligan asked the Presbytery of The Route, in whose charge the infant church was, for supplies i.e. a permanent minister as up until then the Rev. Greer, the Rev Rentoul and the Rev Dill of Drumachose had taken it in turn to hold services in Magilligan"
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Gortinama
Is their a death cert listing for Thomas father to Caldwell? If so does it have any info on it?
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Gortinama
Is their a death cert listing for Thomas father to Caldwell? If so does it have any info on it?
Letters of Admin for the estate of Thomas M'Crackin late of Drumahergan widower died 21 Oct 1864 granted to Caldwell M'Crackin son on 15 March 1867
Technically there should be a death certificate as civil registration of deaths began in 1864 but cannot locate in index. The death may not have been registered or the date of death is wrong in the will index.
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This is brilliant thanks, where would I be able to find these letters at?
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This is brilliant thanks, where would I be able to find these letters at?
There is no additional information as there was no will - that is why his estate was described as being in administration.
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Thank you it's much appreciated. I can not find any info on this Thomas McCracken. If you can find anything on him or before I would be very happy.
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Hi,
Select http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx and enter McCrackin Thomas and you will find what I think is an "image" of the will.
Regards
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Brilliant many thanks.
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I found a Luke Caldwell of the Upper Drummonds leave in his will money to Elizabeth and husband James McCracken 1760s. My McCrackens would have been residing next door in Ballymagoland. Has anyone any marriage details for Elizabeth and James McCracken? Would James father be on the marriage cert?
Many thanks
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E Caldwell
If you can send me a PM, I will share some details of Caldwells buried at Dunboe Presbyterian Church in unmarked grave. Names Alexander and John feature in the family.
Brown1777
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Interested in details of Caldwells buried at Dunboe Presbyterian Church in unmarked grave- looking for father of William Caldwell born in Dunboe (1684-1783)
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Still looking for information on William Caldwell b. 1684 from Dunboe Parish who emigrated to New England in 1718?