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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: johking on Monday 06 August 07 12:49 BST (UK)
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Hi there
I have my widowed gtx3 uncle Matthew CURRIE and son arriving in Quebec (from London) on the Hector, 11th June 1872. That's all sorted. I know lots about him in Canada too (with a lot of help from people on this great site, it has to be said).
The bit that I need to fill in is the emigration of his 32 year-old wife Jane ROBERTSON. They married in Perth, Ontario, on 18th October 1872, but before then she had been his servant/housekeeper in Twickenham, London (1871 census).
I've been through the Hector list and she isn't on the same ship. I would have thought it unlikely that she should emigrate on her own. One clue is that an A Robertson was a witness to their marriage so it is possible that she emigrated with a brother? She was born in Ayr, so maybe she went home first and sailed from Glasgow rather than London.
I assume she must be on the Canada Archives images somewhere. Is it just a case of starting with early October 1872 arrivals at Quebec and working my way backwards going through every image? Is there any other way of narrowing down the search?
Many thanks for any advice
Jo
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It was quite common for a couple from Uk going to Canada or U.S. to travel separately. Often the man went on ahead, worked a bit & found a place for the family & then sent for wife and/or children.
Have you checked 1901 & 1911 census for more details as to what years they each (and any children) arrived in Canada?
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Hi there
Just gone and done that - wow, the 1911 census indexing has come on since I last looked! Yes - 1872 is given as the date of immigration. Thanks fo rtelling me about that
Jo
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There's an Alexander ( Alexr. ROBERTSON ) 39 and wife Margory on the 1881 in Perth lanark.... ;D J.J.
I'll check 1901...
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Good idea JJ and I went to have a look as well, but it seems to me there is only one who fits in the 1901 and he was born in Canada.
Another one bites the dust!
However, I have been spurred on by the 1911 census that aghadowey got me on to, which gives date and month for birth (May 1839). Then I checked up my notes and found that I already knew from the marriage cert that Jane (Jeanie)'s father was James R from Ayr, and mother's name was Jane. So, on to the IGI and I found a most likely birth - Jane, 12th May 1839, Kirkmichael, Ayr, to James Robertson and Jane Morton.
So, from the OPRs I should be able to find any siblings starting with A... And then maybe be able to find him on a ship index? That may be a lead. Of course he may well be a cousin, uncle, distant relative, no relation at all... Sigh!
Jo
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Just a word of warning about 1911 census. Don't know which way the ages/birthdates were calculated but have exact birthdates for almost all my Canadian relatives and birthdates in 1901 match up almost all the time but 1911 seems to often have year of birth one year off although the month is correct.
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Thanks for the warning - however, I can't find her or her daughter Rose on the 1901 at all. I know she (Rose) was at the TB Sanatorium at Gravenhurst for a while before her death in September 1901 at the age of 22 (the third and last of their children to die this way - tragic) so I wonder if Jane accompanied her and for some reason they didn't make it onto the census...
I shall bear in mind that the 1839 birth year may not be accurate
Thanks
Jo
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We don't need to rule out that Alexander entirely, just because he isn't showing on the 1901....
anyway....there is a whole household of Robertsons just 2 households over from the Currie's ...a Donald , Jennet and family....May just be pure coincidence... the origin says English, but is changed to Scottish halfway, and they are all born Ont. & a different faith....so may just be a red herring...but pointing it out anyway...
I think the Alexander still would be worth looking into if anyone could find a marriage for him & Margory....just in case the parents do match up...J.J.
P.S. I agree with aghadowey ...don't use dates as found in censuses, as they can be out as much as 8 to 10 years! and even months can be wrong as well... )
Sad about the children, Jo.... :-\ :'(
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Yes awful. Son Matthew 1896 aged 23, daughter Jean age 22, 1900 and finally Rose, 22, 1901. All from TB. We have letters from their mother, really heart-breaking. It appears to have broken up the marriage too (or been a contributing factor you would think) as Matthew Snr went to live with his son in Smiths Falls before Rose died and is not mentioned in the obituary for Rose in the Perth Courier. He, poor man, had lost a baby daughter and his first wife back in England before emigrating with his son by his first marriage. Some people have a lot to bear.
Thanks for the ideas re Robertsons. It does so help to get some new perspectives.
Jo
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Here is a Jane Currie.
1901 Census
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census/ViewFrame.jsp?id=69140&size=large&highlight=18
Place: Perth, Lanark South, Ontario
Subdistrict: H 2
Page: 12
Line: 18 & 19
Jean Currie
Female
Head
(It says M in transcription, but I think it should be Widow)
Birthdate: May 7th, 1839
Age: 61
Birthplace: Scotland
Immigrated: 1872
Religion: Presbyterian
Rose Curry
Female
Daughter
Single
Birthdate: Aug 20 1879
Age: 21
Birthplace: Ontario
1911 Census
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1911a/e080/e001998943.pdf
Place: 64 Church Street,
Perth, Lanark South, Ontario
Enumeration district: 24
Page: 7
Line: 17
Jane Currie
Female
Head
Widow
Birthdate: May 1839
Age: 72
Birthplace: Scotland
Immigrated: 1872
Religion: Presbyterian
Janice
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Found Marriage on:
http://www.granniesgenealogygarden.com/Granny1/index.html
Marriage:
1st page shows Matthew & Parents
2nd page shows Jane & Parents
http://www.granniesgenealogygarden.com/Granny1/marri1.html
http://www.granniesgenealogygarden.com/Granny1/marri2.html
Lanark County Genealogy Links
http://www.genealogylinks.net/canada/ontario/lanark-county.htm
Lanark County GenWeb
http://www.rootsweb.com/~onlanark/
Janice
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I think we've found all this before, Janice... Don't want you to waste your time..;D but Jo...have you got all the information that you need?
at least there are only 4 months of passenger lists in 1872 to go back through.......
although it does say they can't be found on the 1901...?
Here is Jo's site Janice...http://www.curriefamily.org.uk/stories/mc.htm
http://www.curriefamily.org.uk/overview.htm
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Hi all
Yes, JJ you are right, I do have all this information, but thanks very much for your time Janice.
I will begin the trawl of 1872 passenger ships and let you know if I get any results. The first one I looked at is badly scanned and has a great bg black shadow over about 15 names, so I hope she isn't on that list!
Jo
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Hold on a minute!
Just read Janice's emails properly. That 1901 IS new information. Definitely them in spite of Curry spelling. Blush, oldest mistake ever - failing to check similar spelling (I'm sure I did, sigh).
Thank you so much Janice, I had given up looking as I was so sure they weren't there. And the M is correct, her husband didn't die till 1903, but the marriage had split up by then I reckon.
Great stuff, v happy!
Jo
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AND now I have a birth date of 7th May 1839 from the 1901. That birth I found in the IGI might well be the christening date (12th May 1839) so am still pretty hopeful on that one. Will check up next time I am in Edinburgh.
Getting better!
Jo
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Right, I have spent an evening to the ruination of my eyes, staring at passenger lists from June to Oct 1872 - and that was with leaving out Liverpool - just Glasgow and London. Needless to say I have not found her, but...
Ship: MANITOBAN
Port and Date of Arrival: Quebec, Que. - 1872-08-23
Has an Alexr Robertson, age 26, going from Glasgow to Quebec. Could be the brother/witness to the wedding? (age doesn't work with your 1881 census though JJ). I have searched in vain for Jane on that boat.
Can anyone feeling up to it have a look and see what they think his occupation is, as written on the passenger list? The one in Perth in 1881 is a store keeper. By the way the other witness to the wedding is a Maggie Lillie - could she be the same as the Margory who is in the 1881 with Alexr??
Only other faint possibility is a family:
Ship: AUSTRIAN
Shipping Line: Allan Line Steamship Co.
Departure Port and Date (yyyy/mm/dd): London, England - [1872-07-02]
Queenstown, Ireland - [1872-07]
Port and Date of Arrival: Halifax, N.S. -
Quebec, Que. - [1872-07-15]
Though v annoyingly this is the only ship with no ages of passengers at all. On page 2 there is a Mr J Robertson, Mrs R and 2 Miss Robertson. I know Jane was the second daughter, so there were 2 sisters. I suppose the whole family could have gone out for the wedding? But why travel from London instead of Glasgow, and why go to Halifax instead of Quebec? One teeny hint, the wedding notice from the Perth Courier: "18 Oct 1872 at Perth by the Rev T Brock, marriage of Matthew Currie late of Swickenham (Twickenham) Middlesex to Jane Robertson, second daughter of Jas Robertson, Mill Street, Ayr, Scotland (PC 25 Oct 1872)." Does all that latter detail smack of proud papa being there? If so they hung about for a while given that they arrived 15th July and the wedding wasn't till October... And she was 32 so no spring chicken needing her parents. It just doesn't seem too likely to me.
Any comments?
Jo
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By the way the other witness to the wedding is a Maggie Lillie - could she be the same as the Margory who is in the 1881 with Alexr??
:-X uh, yes ? ;D
And what was the page the passenger list was on that you want us to look at? :D J.J.
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It's page 1, passenger 27 of the Manitoban arriving Quebec 23rd Aug 1872
Thanks
Jo
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O.K. I'm home again...I'll have a peek and if I can't decipher I'll post it for you...
O.K. Can't decipher, but may all be for naught as he was headed for Quebec, I believe...so ? Posting anyway...
Looks as though it may be Inn?? er but then looking at the following page, the person writes Capital M with the same beginning flourish... :P :-\
The occupation wouldn't be all that important anyway, as immigrants did whatever they could, not always what they were trained for ( both my Grandfathers had to change occupations several times once they got here...one went from Blacksmith to farmer to Grocer to farmer)
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One teeny hint, the wedding notice from the Perth Courier: "18 Oct 1872 at Perth by the Rev T Brock, marriage of Matthew Currie late of Swickenham (Twickenham) Middlesex to Jane Robertson, second daughter of Jas Robertson, Mill Street, Ayr, Scotland (PC 25 Oct 1872)." Does all that latter detail smack of proud papa being there? If so they hung about for a while given that they arrived 15th July and the wedding wasn't till October... And she was 32 so no spring chicken needing her parents. It just doesn't seem too likely to me.
If the wedding announcement was put in the Ayr newspaper that's exactly the way it would have been worded so perhaps it was put in both papers. My great-grandparents' wedding in New York was put in their local paper in Ireland in 1879 so it was quite common to send the information to the home paper.
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Good point, but would a week have been long enough to get the information from Ayr? (wedding on 18th, announcement published on 25th)
Thanks for the clearer image JJ but I still can't make it out at all. I thought the occupation would be handy to try to reconcile with an Alexander Robertson from the 1871 Scottish census. There are an awful lot of them... The info about the witnesses says they both came from Perth, but I can't find an Alexander that fits in Perthshire in 1871. However, if my surmise is correct and he is related to Jane, he came from the W coast and could have moved to Perthshire between the 1871 census and the 1872 sailing. I've just got too litlle inforamtion at the moment I'm afraid. Oh for a more unusual name.
Thanks again to all for your interest and help
Jo
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Good point, but would a week have been long enough to get the information from Ayr? (wedding on 18th, announcement published on 25th)
Yes, could easily happen. Deaths were also put in home papers this way.
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Perth, Ontario, remember? ;D J.J.
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JJ- Wedding took place in Perth, Ontario but announcement might also have been sent to Ayr paper.
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Sorry, I had meant the referral to Alexander & Maggie( witnesses)...as they were on wedding cert as from Perth...J.J.