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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: Roger Griffiths on Monday 20 December 04 18:50 GMT (UK)
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My family lived in Mitchel Troy in 18th Century.
John died 1749. Not in Burial Register. His wife Hannah ? died 1780, buried 17 May 1780.
Their children, Michael bapt. 18 Oct. 1741, possibly died Monmouth 1800, Thomas bapt. 4 June 1743, and Tacy bapt. 30 Aug. 1747, died 1757, not in burial Register.
Thomas Bn. 1743 married Jane ?, latter died 1802, buried 19 Sept. 1802.
Their children were James Bapt. 17 Jun. 1792, died Soudley Glos. 1857 and Tacy Bapt. 17 May 1795.
James 1792 - 1857 married Susanna Carpenter 1788 - 1859 at Newland, Glos. in 1825.
I am GGGrandson of James 1792 - 1857.
I am stuck with John and Hannah. Going out in ever increasing circles, marriage possibilities for John and Hannah are Hereford 8 Apr. 1741 and for Thomas and Jane 21 May 1787 Wormbridge, Hereford 21 May 1787.
For the latter couple, marriage James Griffiths and Jane Jenkins at Wonastow, Mon. 1782, later living Redbrook, Glos. does not seem to be correct.
Tacy, any Quaker connections?
Any clues would be most welcome,
Seasons Greetings,
Roger
Moderator comment : moved to Monmouth Board
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Thomas Griffiths of Wonastow married Jane Jenkins of Wonastow at Wonastow 31.12.1782 why is this not correct. Have you found any children baptised to this couple. From my experience Wonastow and Mitchel Troy are practically part of Monmouth. that is where I would like for any children born to Thomas & Jane before 1792 at Mitchel Troy.
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Thank you for replying. I have only just picked up your Post. There was no automatic e-mail prompt for your Post.
Yes, I am aware of the Thomas Griffiths = Jane Jenkins marriage at Wonastow in 1782, the only Thomas and Jane marriage. There was a Jane Jenkins in Mitchel Troy at the right time too.
They then lived at Redbrook, Glos. and had children George 1782, Thomas 1786, John 1788, James 1791, Frances 1794 and Mary Anne 1794, probably twins. I have had correspondence with a descendant of Mary Anne.
Going back, my GGGrandfather James in 1851 Census (Soudley, E. Dean Glos.) gave his birthplace as Mitchel Troy, Mon. Mitcheltroy Parish baptism records give James 1792 and Tacy 1795. Oh, it's occurred to me, was James baptized twice (Mitchel Troy and Redbrook) and was Frances baptized twice, the latter as Tacy in remembrance of parents daughter bapt. 1747 and buried 1757 in Mitchel Troy. Somehow, I don't think so.
Regards,
Roger
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Was James baptised twice or did the first James die young, Was Frances baptised twice not sure what you mean. You dont point out 2 baptisms for a Frances.
Have you found the burials of your Thomas & Jane Griffiths. I have the baptism, marriage & burials for Mitchel Troy 1725 - 1900, and records for every other parish in the area.
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I don't think there were double baptisms in my case, but such things occurred. I said Frances/Tacy because Mary Anne was always subsequently referred to as Mary Anne.
Wonastow, Mitchel Troy and Redbrook are all within walking distance, albeit one would get ones feet wet between the latter two.
My original Post should show progression. There's no burial record for Thomas, but Jane 1802, Mitchel Troy, as in first Post.
There's something I'm missing in all this. Going back to John and Hannah, because his children were born between 1741 and 1747 he was not involved in War of Spanish Succession (1741 - 1748). I feel missing marriages mean they took place far away, like Herefordshire or even Staffordshire. The proof is another thing.
Thank you for your interest.
Roger
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Hi Roger,
Did you get any further with a possible marriage of Michael GRIFFITHS, who was born 1741 and baptised 18 October 1741 at Michel Troy, Monmouth?
The reason I ask is because I am looking for the birth of a Michael GRIFFITHS who married Elizabeth BROWN on 10 August 1768 at St Nicholas Parish church, Gloucester, Gloucs.
There is no obvious sign my Michael was born in Gloucs.
As the combination of ''Michael'' and ''Griffiths'' is uncommon I am hoping this Monmouth Michael Griffiths is my guy.
Regards,
Brian
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At last, after many years, I have found a possible marriage by lic. for John Griffith(s) and Hannah (Coley).
It's from IGI/LDS. Marriage 21January1740 Worcester Cathedral between:-
John Griffith born c1715 St John Bedwardine Worcester
and
Hannah Coley born c1719 Stone Staffordshire
This coincides with another IGI extraction re born c1715 and c1719
Does anyone have any knowledge of Worcester parish registers.
Thank you
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Roger and JonestheREME.. I am very interested in your posts; the Michael Griffiths referred to in JonestheREME's post was my 5x gt grandfather. He married Elizabeth Brown in Gloucester in 1768 and had three children, Elizabeth (1769), Michael (1781-1783) and Susannah (1786-1788). Elizabeth Griffiths (nee Brown) died in Gloucester in 1814 but despite searching all the parish records in Gloucester I can not find a burial for Michael senior. I also wondered if he was the Mitchel Troy Michael??? It could also be that my Michael was a soldier, sailor, or criminal as the gaps between the children is unusual for the time.
Roger... do you have any suggestion that your Michael was in Gloucester and may be my Michael?
JonestheREME.. what's your link to the Gloucester Michael if I may ask?
thanks both...
Bryan Griffiths..
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Hello Bryan,
I'm afraid I don't know. I originally made a request about 2005. I did have correspondence with someone, don't know whether it was you, re Michael. Otherwise nothing. Considering the in depth knowledge and willingness to help on Rootschat, there doesn't seem to be any hope. Michael was a very rare christian name in Monmouthshire, and Gloucestershire for that matter. There was a burial of a Michael Griffiths at Monmouth 1800. I have to assume that was my Michael (without any proof).
In this Thread, I thought I might have made a breakthrough, but the Worcester connection turned out to be a dead end. Tantalisingly, Michael was a popular christion name in the Worcester area.
Added: I've got this mixed up between Threads. We have corresponded before as above.
My relationship would be, Michael b1741, Thomas b1743 (I am descended from him), Tassee (Tacy) 1747 - 1757.
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I have spent 20 years on and off trawling through Gloucester Parish Records for the elusive Michael Griffiths but all to no avail; I can only find his marriage to Elizabeth Brown. Interestingly perhaps is what can NOT be found; I haven't found any other Michael Griffiths who could fit the bill except for the Mitchel Troy one.... I have made a decision! Although I can't prove it conclusively I feel that, on the balance of probabilities and in the absence of evidence one way of the other, the Mitchel Troy Michael and the Gloucester Michael are almost certainly the same person... I am happy to amend that train of thought if new evidence comes to light of course...
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I suppose we could both take a DNA test, but quite frankly I can't justify the expense just now. Just keep this open so you get e-mail notification if I post anything on this Thread.
Best Wishes,
Roger
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I hadn't thought about DNA.... could be possible I suppose, although I agree the expense is too prohibitive at the moment....
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Just to restate what I have on Michael and it's very little.
Bapt. Mitchel Troy Mon. 18Oct1741. Parents John and Hannah. No marriage for them.
John died 1749. No PR entry. Overseers Assessments & Disbursements - coffin and shroud for John Griffiths 10/-
1750 - 2d for Mick Griffiths
1757 - 4d for Michollo Griffiths
If our Michael was buried St Mary's Monmouth, then 20Dec1800.
But why Monmouth if he had a wife and child in Gloucester?
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You ask 'why Monmouth if he had a wife and child in Gloucester?'.... I have asked myself the same question, and I don't have an answer.... all I can speculate is that the marriage between Michael and Elizabeth in Gloucester was an 'unusual' one in so much as there are very distinctive gaps between the children, most unusual for families of that time... it would seem to make sense that 'Michael' was not spending all his time in Gloucester, whether he was in the army, navy, or prison I don't know.... I have searched prison records, and all the parish records for Gloucester, and I can find no trace of Michael at all other than his marriage in Gloucester in 1768.... so, why Monmouth, why not is all I can say. The marriage may have broken down in some way and he returned to family in Monmouth... unfortunately I don't have the answers and probably never will...
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You are descended from Elizabeth Griffiths 1769. Do you have the 1841 Census etc. Any Griffiths's I might recognise?
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yep... not sure what I have that I can email.... my Griffiths line has stayed in Gloucester from 1769 to the late 1800's when an early death forced the surviving family to move in with relatives in Selsley, near Kings Stanley, Glos, where our branch remained. Here is a quick summary:
1) - Michael Griffiths (-) 1768 married Elizabeth Brown (believed 1743 Minsterworth - 1814 Glos)
2) - Elizabeth Griffiths (1769 Glos - 1814 Glos) - no marriage.
3) - James Griffiths (no father recorded) (1792 Glos - 1845 Glos) 1815 married Lucy Baker (1796 Bath - abt 1869 Glos)
4) - William James Griffiths (1815 Glos - 1882 Glos) 1843 married Mary Pockett (1815 Churchdown - abt 1889 Glos)
5) - Thomas James Griffiths (1844 Glos - 1881 Glos) 1873 married Mary Hall (1851 Monmouth - 1916 Selsley)
6) - Thomas Griffiths (1878 Glos - 1947 Kings Stanley) 1905 married Emily Chandler (1884 Kings Stanley - 1974 Kings Stanley)
7) - Jack Lionel Griffiths (1911 Kings Stanley - 1986 Glos) 1955 married Jenny Squire (1923 Stroud - 1997 Glos)
8) - ME!
I have most of the branches of the tree up to the early 1900's, but pretty much all in or around Gloucester.....
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Thanks very much for this. The christian names certainly tally with my lot, except for Elizabeth.
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Hello All...... I have had a couple of thoughts this afternoon regarding Michael Griffiths; firstly MY Michael Griffiths had three children in Gloucester, Elizabeth (named after his wife), Michael (named after himself), and Susannah (named after? There are no Susannahs in the family unless she is named after Michael's mother, Hannah????) so, point number 1 is this; was Hannah Coley known as Susannah at some point?
My second thought is this; my main reason for thinking that Michael was away from Gloucester a lot is the unusual gaps in the birth dates of the children born in Gloucester but I suddenly realised I may have been wrong to make that assumption, because this is the late 1700's there are no census records to confirm the numbers of children it is entirely possible that Michael AND his wife Elizabeth AND their children were all away together and they could have had other children - I only ever checked the Gloucester parish records, I never checked Monmouth records to see if they had children together there in the 'missing' years away from Gloucester..... this could explain Michaels burial in Monmouth after which perhaps Elizabeth and the children moved back to Gloucester..... so point number 2 is this: are there any children in the Monmouth parish records born to Michael Griffiths and Elizabeth between 1768 and 1801?
Any thoughts anyone?
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Bryan is it?, hope you're well and enjoying life. The Hannah Coley link back to Worcester failed. The experts on here really delved into it. A great pity because three different people on Familysearch had submitted links between John and Hannah (Coley) Griffiths from Worcester to Mitchel Troy. Familysearch no longer allows PM's between members, so I couldn't contact them and ask for their sources and proofs.
Monfamilies had BT's online for each parish but I'm not sure at all whether they still are. I did peruse the Monmouth original registers looking for Griffiths's but didn't find anything apart from 'Michael's' burial if that was him. This was up to 20 years ago, so probably should be revisited, except I don't go that far these days.
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I did a quick online search yesterday but couldn't find any other children of Michael Griffiths and Elizabeth, in Monmouth or elsewhere. I guess we will just have to wait and see if any new information comes up; when I get a chance I will try to go back to the Gloucester Record Office for one final check there but it seems we will have to resign ourselves to the fact that the late 18th Century record keeping was simply not that good for the general population.
Bryan Griffiths.
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Actually, All Saints Newland covered a wide area and the records were amongst the best. The vicar/rector at the time even produced an index book for 18th Century+. I copied all the Griffiths's out and no Michael and Elizabeth's I'm afraid. That would cover the nearest Gloucestershire side of the County line with Monmouthshire. I have also looked at Penallt, the other relevant parish in Mon.