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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: little meg on Monday 15 October 07 06:20 BST (UK)
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About 15 years ago I was writing to an elderly lady who said she was my grandmothers cousin.
As I live in Australia, all letters were sent back and forth by normal mail and took many months for information to come in.
She only gave me little bits and pieces and never answered the specific questions I put to her. Needless to say - I am still confused as to where she fits in. :-\
So . . . having raved on a bit, I shall now give the information given to me and what I have found:
She was a cousin to my grandmother, b.c. 1907, Wales.
Her name at the time was Ivy Howells - I do not know if this was a maiden name or married name, I know she never had children of her own. She never signed her mail as Miss or Mrs - just Ivy Howells :'(
My grandmother was Minnie Maud Brabon. Her parents were William James Brabon and Mary jane Perry.
Ivy stated that her mothers name was Louisa, who died circa 1963. No age given and no married name given.
I have found a Louisa Brabon born circa 1886, living with my gr grandparents Walter Brabon and wife Elizabeth, in Glamorganshire
1881 census - RG12/4424 folio 116, page 58
1891 census -RG13/5015 folio 83, page 29.
Ok, so far so good.
Now my problem is to find a marriage of this Louisa.
The only one I could find was :
Louise Brabin/March qtr 1907/Pontypridd/Glamorgan/11a/631.
This gives me two possible spouses - Thomas James Jakaman or George Mathews.
From what I was told by Ivy is that she (Ivy) had 2 brothers and a sister.
"We were 2 girls and 2 boys in my family"
Now what I need to know is, apart from buying the marriage certificate, how else might I find out about this family, the children etc.
I found a possible birth for an Ivy Ellen Mathews in 1910, but cannot find a marriage for her to a Howells.
If anyone has any ideas or can double check anything I have given, please help me with this little mystery.
We exchanged many letters but none were very helpful, she was such a lovely dear but oh so frustrating ;D
Sorry if this is such a long winded explanation, any help truly appreciated :)
Regards
Margaret
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There are these deaths
Ivy Howells
born 26 July 1904
d.Jun1984
Merthyr Tydfil district
27 418
Ivy Elizabeth howells
b. 29 Oct 1909
d.Aug 2001
age 91
Swansea
D157 55
Ivy Elizabeth Howells
b.5 jan 1913
d.Mar 1996
age 83
Pontypridd
A81 56
Maybe this will help with a d.o.b.
Suz
Ivy Elizabeth Howells b.
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Hi Suz,
yes they are great, never even thought to check for her death.
My letters weren't even dated, I just recall it being about 1983, and even the stamps on the envelope aren't clear.
The Merthyr one could be a good one, as that is where my mother was born.
Thankyou.
Margaret
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have modified the last one -I had put date of death as 1966 -instead of 1996!!!
What area was her address when she wrote to you?
That may pin it down a little more
Suz
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Hi Suz, I am glad you told me that, as I automatically disregarded that one because of the date.
I will have to go search for the letters again,
back soon.
thanks
Margaret
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ok,
Firstly an appology, she has put Mrs Ivy Howells, so yes she did marry. ::)
She was living at 4 Danywern Terrace, Ystrad, Rhondda, Mid Glam. in August 1983.
Yes, it appears I also have a decent date too.
Sorry for that.
There is another that appears to have the date Feb 18th 1985, this is scribbled in a different colour pen to the letter.
this would discount the first option then, but cannot say for certain if the date is right, shall I scan and put it up. ??
Hope this helps.
Margaret
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here is the scan of the date, putting it up mainly to verify that it is an 85.
Margaret
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Freebmd has the following births listed
March qtr 1912
Cyril Matthews - mothers maiden name Brabon - Pontypridd 11a 1538
June qtr 1914
Brinley Matthews - mothers maiden name Brabon - Pontypridd 11a 1558
This could show that Louisa married George Matthews
Hope this helps
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Also found the following on Freebmd
Births Sep 1907 qtr
Ivy Kathleen Matthews Pontypridd 11a 721
Births Dec 1908 qtr
Ivy May Matthews Pontypridd 11a 536
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Hi Welshjo,
that looks positive.
Now we might be able to follow up on one of the brothers.
In one of the letters she stated that one of her brothers died age 46.
So if it was Cyril he should have his death registered in 1958, or thereabouts and if Brindley (I presume this is a guys name) then the death date would be circa 1960.
her sister died age 58, but no name given, only that she had a daughter who died age 35, leaving 4 children who Ivy raised. This might be in the too hard basket. ;D
thanks, one step further to finding them out.
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hope it helps
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There is a death
Cyril matthews
b. 9 feb 1912
d.Aug 1984
age 72
Pontypridd
27 978
there are Brinley deaths after 1983but they have middlenames and I can find their births (different mother) -so looks like brinley died earlier
You wouldn't believe how many brinley matthews there are !!!!!
Suz
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Hi Suz,
that has to be the same Cyril, thankyou.
I can't believe that there was lots of Brinley Matthews, is Brinley a common Welsh name. I have never heard of it before.
thankyou, not have any luck finding a marriage for Ivy Matthews to a Howells. ::)
margaret
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I am reading back over the letters - now with a different view to them.
She was not the best with her handwriting. :'(
This is an example of what she wrote
"Well my mother was a daughter (one of them) of my grandfather"
Really!! ;D
Sorry, being a little synical here, anyway have found a couple of new things that might be of more use now.
"I am now 76 years old yesterday" this letter is dated June 12th 1983.
So, by my calculations she was born on the 11th june 1907.
I suppose she could have been registered in the Sept. qtr and be the Ivy Kathleen Matthews.
Also in another letter dated 1983, she states that only her and one brother left - perhaps this is Cyril she is referring to.
I will keep looking to see what else might help.
Margaret
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ok, letter dated in Feb 1985,
" I missed my brother this year very much . . . I think I told you he died end of August last year.
This is looking real good for Cyril! ;D ;D
Margaret
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There looks like a death for an Ivy Kathleen Howell registered in 1996 somewhere in Glamorgan.
I cant get any further details to appear on this one - maybe someone else can.
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Death
Ivy kathleen Howell
b. 30 mar 1918
died may 1996
age 78
Glamorgan
B1A 148
Suz
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Welsh boys names
Bryn =Welsh for Hill, popular for boys -also variations Brynn, Brynley, Brinley
(Brinley is used for girls too present day!)
English names
Brinley, male name = Burnt meadow
I think I'd stick to the Welsh meaning!
Suz
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I can't find a death for Ivy maud Howell(s) ....
but this birth looks promising
Ivy Maud Matthews
Jun qtr 1907
Merthyr Tydfil
11a 832
Suz
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Hi Welshjo and Suz,
the death for the Ivy Kathleen Howells doesn't match our birth date, shame.
The Ivy Maud looks like a good birth, Maud was used a lot in the family, there was a couple of Minnie Mauds, one was her Aunt and another her cousin. But Maud was probably common for that time and area.
I am slowly, going through year by year marriages for any Ivy Matthews starting at 1924, in Ancestry.
I am up to 1932, but gave up last night as I was tired ;D It is a slow process this way but may be the only option.
I am worried she may have married twice which will make everything near impossible to find.
Thankyou for your determination in helping with this line. I think we are definately on the right track based on Cyril Matthews -
Margaret
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oops, sorry, thanks Suz for the defination of the name Brindley. ;D
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With Ivy not having any children, I wonder if she didn't marry until late in life?
I wonder if she was the unmarried sister who dedicated herself to her deceased sister's children???
Then married late on.
Wish I could get to the Rhondda and knock the door to see if anyone remembered her?
They are pretty close knit in that community.
My granddaughters live in S Wales-but a couple of valleys away!!!!
Suz
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Thanks Suz, my sister is in contact with a relative that still lives in the Valley. But he is a lot younger.
He has been to Australia twice now to visit.
We even gave him some Kanga on the bbq ;D
Back when I was writing to Ivy, I was also writing to a gr. Aunt on my Grandfathers side. But she has passed on since. Most of the Brabons (and Belts) were salvation Army people but I recall reading that Ivy was not. She did say she sewed a salvation army dress for my gr grandmother when she was there.
I will get my sister to contact this relo, and see who is still alive over there and who might remember her.
Especially now having this extra info to work with.
I am sure that she probably did marry late in life, hence the fact that she could not or did not have children. She never explained why, and never mentioned her husband, when he died etc.
It was her deceased sisters grand children whom she semi-raised.
Wish I could get to the Rhondda too, ;)
thanks, I will keep plodding along with the marriages page by page even if I have to cover 30 years, I will find it >:(
Margaret
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If you are still "ploughing through" tomorrow -or maybe even later I will help out if I can
Suz
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Thanks Suz,
If I find anything new I will put it up.
I will read through the letters again and again, must be something hiding in there I missed, shocking handwriting though.
Appreciate all your help and interest ;)
Margaret
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There is a marriage for:
Louise Brabin - George Matthews Mar Q 1907 Pontypridd 11a 631
You could also contact Treorchy FH library to follow up address on electrol to see who lived there librarian is Anthony Pritchard he is vey helpful via email. google for address Rhondda Cynon Taff libraries.
If you have probs will give you link
Cas
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Thanks Cas,
I did have that possible marriage in my first entry, I know it was a bit long winded ;D
I will see how I go with the Treorchy FH library ,
thankyou
Margaret
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Sorry, missed that. If you need any local knowledge will try and help. I have burial records for both main cems in the area but they only go up to 1990.
The 1901 for Louisa with family is an address that is very near in distance to the one the Ivy gave. I would contact the library he can give you contact address for the cems records post 1990. They also hold internment records which you can request via email for address at death and next of kin info etc.
Hope this helps, if you wish me to look up any further back with what records I have will try and help, but it is mostly pre 1900.
Good luck
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Hi again,
thanks for that,
if you see anything on the name Brabon in cemetery records would love it. I am more than certain that anyone of that name in that area would be mine, as the Brabons original came from Kent.
My sister did most of the work on these lines, and I took off on other family trees. So I am rethinking the brain waves as to who is who. ;)
Thanks for letting me know that the 1901 census is near the address that Ivy gave. It is handy to have a 'local' to tell of these things. :)
cheers
Margaret
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Burial No,Surname,Name,Year (for Treorchy Cemetery Rhondda)
14123,Brabon,Mary Jane,1898
18093,Brabon,Gertrude Lily,1904
18391,Brabon,Walter James,1904
29294,Brabon,Edgar,1920
35650,Brabon,Walter,1931
37773,Brabon,Elizabeth,1935
38131,Brabon,Fredrick,1935
60631,Brabon,Raymond Frederick,1990
You can get all these internment records via email Re: Anthony to see if they hold any info you can use.
None in Trealaw cem which is the other. This cem (Treorchy) is the nearest to where Gelli/Ystrad is. Opened in 1872 and still continuing today.
This is the only marriage I can find but as mentioned they only go up to 1900.
BRABON THOMAS HENRY age 21, Bachelor, father WALTER, married JONES ALICE MAUD,age 17, Spinster father EDWIN on 5/9/1899 by Banns at YSTRADYFODWG
Ystradyfodwg was the old parish name for the Rhondda. approx. pre 1901 (Which is now known as Rhondda Cynon Taff or RCT)
Cas
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Thats brilliant Cas, ;D
thankyou, I recognise quite a few names in there.
Will follow up on your suggestions.
Margaret
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Just out of interest or afterthought, thought I'd add that 1901 Thomas Brabon and wife Alice & baby Thomas Charles (3mths) are living With her parents at 103 Gelly Rd near his parents also. (The Welsh would spell it 'Gelli.' as still signposted today.) Pronounced 'Gethley' in my area.
Cas
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My sister has scribbled (chapter 12) on her tree next to that family, so I think she may have some info on that particular family. I will make note of it anyway, that is for sure.
I don't think she has much on the census details so that probably is a great find. ;)
We should be working on this together in the first place ::)
I have heard how Gelli is pronounced. ;D Thankyou.
Even though my mum came out to Australia as a child she tried to teach us how to count to 10 in Welsh.
I think I got my welsh numbers mixed up with my french numbers ;D (subject learning at school)
I would love to learn the welsh language but I imagine it is very difficult.
One of my sisters went over to the Rhondda valley a couple of years ago, but this sister isn't into family history so it was quite a waste really
thanks again
Margaret
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No offensive meant Margaret, glad your mam took her Welsh roots with her.
Wish you luck with your tree info, if I can help again, let me know, will try
Good luck
Cas
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No offense whatsoever, love my Welsh roots.
Dare I say I love my English roots too :o
She always quoted the saying "Taffy was a welshman, Taffy was a .....
horrid when you think about it.
cheers
thanks for your help Margaret
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I have read through the letters yet again, and the only new find I have is this:
"I myself had no children and a widow for the past thirty years"
This was from a letter dated in June 1983.
So 'Mr" Howells must have passed away circa 1953.
So I will not to go further than that with my search for their marriage ;D
I am up to 1944 so far.
Margaret
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Hi little meg
I have just found this website and registered as I typed in a search for Walter Brabon who is my mother in laws (Joan) Great Grandfather - her grandmother being Louisa born 1885. I am looking for answers about Louisa whose daughter Doris is Joans mom.
Willam James, Hannah, Thomas Henry, Minnie Maud, Alfred, Frederick and Elizabeth were all Louisa's siblings. It looks as if Alfred died aged 5 and the same year another boy was born and called Alfred (creepy)
All I know about Doris is that she was born illagitimately (Louisa was in service) however there is no apparent record as to whether Louisa married later or had any other children........................
I have aquired from my mother in law a massive pile of paper work and a family tree I might be able to help or you
Em :)
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Hi Em,
my grandmother was Minnie Maud.
I think we are already in contact via my sister, (*). It is the 'tedbear' that makes me think so, is that you or your mother in law whom I am corresponding with? ;D
Margaret
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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No it's me - my mother in law is (*). I don't know if she's in touch with you?
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hello Em :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
Once you have made 3 posts, you will be able to use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data (e.g. family names, email addresses) with other Rootschatters.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Hi Morgan,
I only gave my sister first name, how is this breaking the rules. Never was a problem before. :'(
Sorry if I have done the wrong thing.
Margaret
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Hi Margaret :)
Anything posted on the internet is in the public domain where anybody can see the information. To protect people and their identities we do not encourage the posting of information about people who are or maybe still living.
Even though you may only have given your sister's first name, other posts that you make may give further clues about her identity. Therefore it is better to err on the side of caution. It is better to exchange such information via the PM system rather than on the boards.
Hope that helps to explain why I modified the post.
Kind regards
Morgan
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Thankyou for your explanation, Morgan, clears it up now.
regards,
Margaret
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Hi Margaret :)
Having moved this to Completed as we agreed, I read the thread from the start!
Have you considered that she may have been called Ivy but not registered as Ivy?
I found a death in 1990 (Oct Q) of a Mary Elizabeth Howells in Pontypridd district, age 83
Her birth date is given as 10th June 1907
Pontypridd volume 27 page 1429
There is a possible marriage in 1938, of Mary E Matthews and Lewis E Howells
Pontypridd volume 11a page 1099
and there is a death of Lewis E Howells in 1954, age 53
Pontypridd volume 8b page 509
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Hi Morgan,
that looks good for her and matches with the mothers possible married name.
Thankyou very much - appreciate your kind effort. ;)
cheers
Margaret
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Hi Margaret :)
It is definitely worth checking, as she may have been still at the same address as in mid-80s.
Let us know how you get on?
Kind Regards
Morgan
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This is my family, I just came across the site if you need help