RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wicklow => Topic started by: kmdryd on Thursday 08 November 07 11:49 GMT (UK)
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My gx3 grandfather Christopher Penrose lived in Wicklow early 1800's and had died before 1849.
Penrose seems to be a Cornish name and I have no idea how he ended up in Ireland.
His 3 daughters came to Australia as potato famine orphans and arrived in Australia in 1849.
Christopher married? Catherine Doyle but I have no marriage certificate.
Where do I look for some information about Christopher?
I have so little information.
Kathleen
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There are several Christopher Penrose(s) mentioned in the Wicklow section of the LDS website. However, there isn't a Catherine.
Do you know the names of Christopher's daughters?
Cheers
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Thank you LH for your reply to my "brick wall".
Sisters' names were, Anne born 1830-31.
Esther (sometimes Catherine I think) born 1832-33.
Bridget born 1834.
Hope this helps.
Kathleen
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Hi
On http://www.irishfaminememorial.org/orphans/names_monument.htm there are 3 Penrose girls mentioned, Ann, Bridget and Catherine. Bridget's address is given as Barraderrie, Wicklow. This could well be Barndarrig, Wicklow, which you can look up on google.
There were dozens of Penrose folk in Wicklow from the late 1600s onwards but if you feel that Christopher Penrose may have been from Cornwall, it may be worth your while looking at the link to Conary Church, which was apparently built for UK tin miners who moved to Ireland.
Do you know which religion these three Penrose sisters were?
Cheers
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Thank you LH for your info.
I was only assuming that Christopher came from Cornwall as I can't find any information about him in Ireland. A few people have looked for me and always a blank wall.
Also I found out that the surname Penrose was Cornish.
I am surprised to hear that there were a lot of Penrose in Wicklow. I was told by a professional researcher that Penrose was quite rare in Wicklow I hope she is wrong! That gives me a better chance.
The three girls were Catholic.
I will google Barndarrig as you suggest.
Thank you for your help. I am really interested in this branch of my family as it was the first branch I started researching in 1984! and the one that I have had not very much luck with. I would be jumping for joy if I could find my illusive Christopher and Catherine.
I am thinking maybe Christopher and Catherine could have lived and died in the poor house. I have tried to find out about this but records seem to be non-existant.
Thank you again, Kathleen
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Hi
In Griffiths Valuation (a cencus substitute), I notice a few Penrose folk living fairly close to Barndarrig, even the name Christopher Penrose:-
Penrose Michael Ballymurrin Lower Dunganstown Wicklow
Penrose Peter Corporation Lands Kilpoole Wicklow
Penrose Peter Wicklow Irish Street Kilpoole Wicklow
Penrose Thomas Ballycooleen Castlemacadam Wicklow
Penrose Christopher Coolgreany Inch Wexford
Penrose Christopher Knockgreany Inch Wexford
Cheers
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Hi
This info. is really interesting. What year was this evaluation taken?
How can I follow up on this info?
Do you know if there is a map of this area around the time that I am interested in>
Again thank you for your help.
Kathleen
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According to www.failteromhat.com, Griffiths for Wicklow was carried out 1852-53.
For a location - go to www.google.com and then type in google maps. Click on the first choice and then type in Barndarrig Wicklow. You can then slide down on the zip on the lft hand side and expand on the area. You'll see Coolgreany, near Arklow and Inch is virtually east of Coolgreany. These areas are just about on the Wicklow-Wexford border.
Cheers
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The website below shows a marriage of a Penrose male to a Dunne female in Arklow. There are no further details but it may be worth e-mailing the parish to see whether they have any other snippets on this marriage.
http://www.cmcrp.net/Wicklow/ArklowM12.htm
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Hi Kathleen,
I found the following in Census 1911 Wicklow. Hope you are still looking for your Penrose family. It is the only one in County Wicklow.
Smith Miles, 56, Head of Family, Book Maker, Single
Smith Sarah 38 Sister Single
Penrose Peter 29 Boarder, Catholic born Co Wicklow Post Man Single
Search results Displaying results 131 – 132 for all Ireland
Cheers,
Julia
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Dear Julia, Oh yes I am still looking for my Penroses and thank you for the message. I don't know if this is one of my Penroses as my last known Penrose left Ireland in 1849. (my g-g-grandmother) There is a possibility that my g-g grandmother had brothers that stayed in Ireland as my g-g grandmother and her 2 sisters came to Oz because of the potato famine. Possible they had other siblings.
it would be interesting to try and find Peters parents and then grandparents to see if there is a link with my family. Penrose seems to be not a common name in Wicklow so hopefully there may be a link.
So peter born approx. 1882 so his parents could have been born between 1842 and 1862. Their parents could have been born between 1822 and 1842. A definate possibility as my g-g grandmother born 1834.
My Penroses were Catholic.
Thank you again
Kathleen
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There were quite a few references to Christopher Penrose -Extracts from the Cancelled Valuation Manuscript Books, Barony of Gorey, Parish of Inch, Union of Gorey, Co Wexford, Electoral Division of Coolgreany
4 Coolgreany (Land)
1855-1860 Christopher Penrose, IL William B Forde
1860-1864 Christopher Penrose, IL William B Forde
1864-1867 Christopher Penrose, IL William B Forde, George Brookes Francis Brookes
1867-1877 Christopher Penrose, IL Francis Brookes, George Brookes
1877-1883 Christopher Penrose, Christopher Mulligan, IL George Brookes
They may have left in the Coolgreany Evictions or in the Fitzwilliam land clearances
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The Penrose family of Ballykean and Brittas in Wicklow were from Wheldrake in the East Riding of Yorkshire and arrived soon after 1655. They became Quakers and were involved in business in Waterford, Cork and Dublin. They arrived soon after the English Civil War and settled in Wicklow which was strictly for Protestant settlers in the extended English Pale and part of the Plantation Policy after Cromwell defeated the Irish Confederate Army.
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Thank you Dom. I am really stuck until I find who Christophers parents were.
I have been told by a professional that she thinks my Penroses are related to the Ballykean-Penrose area in Wicklow.
So I keep looking. :)
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fp0/
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I will check all my family records. Richard Penrose of Ballykean was my forebear. He was murdered at Ballykean by intruders in 1686 and William Walsh was hanged for the offence at Wicklow. The big question regarding Christopher was why he was a Catholic living in a strictly Protestant area.
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Very interesting about your Richard. Thank you
I just keep thinking that my Christopher Penrose is related somehow.
Christopher "married" Catherine Doyle (who was the catholic) and I think that if he didn't convert to Catholicism when he married he and Catherine raised all their children as catholic.
Interesting fact , Christopher and Catherines youngest daughter came to Australia in 1849 and married a C of E man but all their children were raised as Catholic!
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There is a BAR(R)ADERRY in Wicklow !
Tara
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In 1847 there is a prison record for a Cornelious Crowley stealing from a Mr Penrose of Wicklow.
Tara
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There is an 1840 petty session record of an Eleanor Penrose of Wicklow being attacked.
I am going to post any of these little finds in the hope that one might lead to YOUR Penroses !
Tara
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Some female Penroses having children in Wicklow in later years.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fpm/
Tara
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Penrose on GV in Wicklow !
Thomas Penrose Redcross, Wicklow
Thomas Penrose Castlemacadam, Wicklow
Peter Penrose Kilpoole, Wicklow
Michael Penrose Dunganstown, Wicklow
Tara
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Dear Tara, thank you so much. I had a look and I found the Barraderry you mentioned. My 3 Penrose sisters ended up at the Rathdrum workhouse before coming to Australia and I noticed that it isn't too far from Barraderry. I will go back and look again at your other posts.
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Did any paperwork give an occupation for Christopher ?
Tara
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No unfortunately Tara. I only have Christopher and Catherines names from all their childrens bap. information and from my gg grandmothers death certificate in 1910.
I can not find Christophers bap. record or marriage record so I am stuck. :(
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Oh I didn't realise that you had the girl's baptisms !
What church were they baptised in ?
Tara
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I only have a record of their baps. it doesn't say what church only they were bap. catholic and the first 5 children bap. in Wicklow and the last 4 were bap. in Kilbride. But I do have names for their godparents.
Kathleen
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Were any of the Godparents family members ?
Tara
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Kilbride online doesn't go that far back !
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0464
BUT at least t brings you right back to Bardarrig which LH has directed you to.
Tara
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I think so. Margaret Doyle was godmother to Mary in 1822. Eleonor ? Doyle was godmother to Catherine in 1823. Ann Penrose was godmother to Elizabeth in 1827. John Penrose was godfather to Esther in 1833.
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rootsireland is a sub site but they have Kilbride records going back to 1820.
Now, there would be no guarantees that Christopher's marriage would be on it.
Even it it was, marriages on that time had very little information on them, usually just the date, groom / bride and possibly the witness'.
If you are VERY lucky an address of father's might be mentioned but this is fairly rare for the period.
Also, rootsireland will just have transcriptions of the records.
Tara
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Thanks again. Have had a look but nothing. :'( I still have to explore more regarding the godparents.
Kathleen
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The trick will be bridging the gap between your Penrose anestors and those researching the same surname who have gotten very far back with their trees.
Good Luck ;D
Tara
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Thank you for all your help Tara. Would you mind keeping my ancestors names on your list?
One day I will "find" my Christopher and Catherine.
Kathleen
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I most certainly will.
New records are always being released ~
findmypast.ie are working on workhouse records at the mo.
They have released the Dublin Workhouse records, and then Sligo HUM and another county that I can't think of.
Anyway, it's only a matter of time 'til all counties are done.
If you are on Facebook 'like' their page and then you will get their updates.
Same with any of the Irish genealogical sites ~ 'like' them all to get the updates ;D
Tara
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A possible connection with my Penrose family of Brittas and your Christopher Penrose.
A family tale passed down by my father mentions an adopted son (of his younger brother) of Richard Penrose of Ballykean and Brittas 1726-1756 being disowned for marrying a Catholic. The tale says he was called Daniel, but Daniel married Anne Doyle in 1800 and she was a Quaker without doubt and Daniel was not adopted. The tale said Richard had no children of his own, but he had 5 in the records.
However, Daniel had a younger brother called Thomas who married in 1793 and had Isabella and Maria and the name Sharp is mentioned, but am not sure if she is Thomas's wife. There is a lease between William Halpin and Thomas Penrose of Brittas in 1806, which could be the same Thomas, so maybe Thomas was disowned yet Thomas married after his father Richard Penrose died. The story may mean the Quaker Meeting disowned Thomas for marrying a Catholic lady, which could have happened. Maybe Christopher Penrose was a son of Thomas, although this is not shown and Catherine Doyle was a relation of Anne Doyle who married Daniel my forebear.
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Thank you very much Dom.
What you have mentioned could be possible. The only real information I have is the transcripts of Christopher and Catherines childrens bap. C and C had their first child in 1820 and Catherines maiden name Doyle was used (on Bap.) till 1828 after her 5th child. 1831 till 1836 it is left out on the next four baps. Could this mean that they were married between 1831 and 1836 or maybe it has no meaning at all?
Do you have anymore information about Anne Doyle who married your Daniel?
I also found the surname BEHAN appeared twice on the baps. Mary Behan godmother to one child in 1831 and Anne Behan godmother to another child in 1833. Just wondering if you recognise that surname.
Do you know the name of Thomas' wife?
I would be "over the moon" if we could find a connection there somewhere.
Regards Kathleen
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Kathleen the Doyle's were a large family and very much settled from Dublin down to Wexford.
I understand this branch were quite wealthy in 1865 when James Doyle husband of Hannah died and worth around £100,000 mostly accumulated from banking. The Doyle's and Penrose's centred much of their commercial activity in Dublin, which was the second largest city in the British Isles in 1724 and were involved in import and export through Cork and Waterford using their Quaker connections.
James Doyle 1747-1797 of Cooladine in Wexford and Gayfield in Dublin married twice.
Firstly to Hannah who had Anne Doyle 1780-1810 who married Daniel Penrose.
Secondly to Elizabeth who had Susanna who died 1862 unmarried. James Doyle 1788-1865 who married Hannah Clark of Crimplesham Hall in Norfolk - no children. Thomas Doyle who wed Caroline Storrs of Bristol - unknown descent. Joseph Doyle 1793-1872 who married Elizabeth Clark (sister of Hannah) of Crimplesham Hall in Norfolk - no known children.
My great grandfather James Doyle Penrose moved to Norfolk to look after Hannah Clark after her sister and brother in law and husband had died in 1874 and lived at Downham Market for 8 years then moving on to London.
No link to the other names I am afraid.
All best Dom
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Thank you Dom for all the information. I don't think my Christopher was on the rich side of the family as 3 of his children ended up at Rathdrum workhouse, from where my gg grandmother emigrated to Australia. I will keep searching and refer back to the information you have sent me. :) Regards Kathleen