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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Nottinghamshire => England => Nottinghamshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Quiller on Friday 09 November 07 13:12 GMT (UK)
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Just received a Death Certificate back which lists the occupation as a Dropper Maker. What was it and did it involve working with wood ? Was it something to do with the Lace trade in Notts ?
Any help, as always, gratefully received and acknowledged.
Quiller
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I can't find any connection with lace manufacture.
The only relevant sort of dropper would seem to be the one used for delivering drops of liquid. For example an eye dropper.
These seem to have been used in many sizes by many different industries. He could have made any of these usually from glass.
David
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Thanks for your input David, oh well back to the drawing board.
Regards
Quiller
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Is it possible that it was someone that made the glass drops that hang from chandeliers?
Peter
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Hi Peter
Never thought of that due to Nottingham not being particularly renowned for glassware. Many thanks for the input though.
Onwards and upwards.
Regards
Quiller
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just a silly thought - didn't Boots the chemists start off in Nottingham. You could ask them!!
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What date is the certificate? What did he do in the previous Census? That might give us a clue....
meles
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Boots started as a single herbalists shop in 1843 and by the end of the 19th century had over sixty shops in about thirty towns. He could well have been making eye droppers and similar appliances for Boots. If you give us some dates we would have a better idea.
David
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Cath, Meles, David
Excuse the delay, the date on the cert. is 8 Feb 1890, the sub-district is Lenton Nottingham and is for one James Tutin aged 36, the informant is Hannah Tutin Widow. I cannot find family in 1881, in 1891 the family are living in Coal pit lane Nottingham. (the surname mistranscribed TUTUS) minus James. (RG12 P.2700 F.19 Pa.31)
The reason I sent for this Cert. is that I thought there may be a connection between JT and Frederick James Tutin (see post "Where did he go and what did he do wrong") In 1881 Frederick James Tutin was a boarder, occupation joiner. I thought a dropper maker may have been connected to the wooden lace looms.
Why am I getting the feeling that I have wasted another eight pound fifty ::)
Anyway thank you all for your help. Any further suggestions gratefully received, (keep em clean)
Regards
Quiller
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Hi Peter
Never thought of that due to Nottingham not being particularly renowned for glassware. Many thanks for the input though.
Onwards and upwards.
Regards
Quiller
I could be wrong, but I think that Nottingham had asolid connection with the glass industry - as did many towns in that Yorks'/Nott's area.
Denn
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Hi Quiller,
Sorry I am not much help, but here are your family in 1881 transcribed as Tutil ! but it does say James is a Dropper Maker, I am intrigued to know what one is now!
1881 - RG11/3360/50/29 - 5 Careys Yard, Nottingham St Mary, Nottingham
Best Wishes
Sheila.
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Hi Sheila
Thank you for that, at least that answers one question I have got the wrong James Tutin. Thought it might have been Frederick James Tutin, dropping the Frederick !!
Will we ever find out what a Dropper Maker was :-\
Best Regards
Quiller
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http://www.piercechefmart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PCM2001&Product_Code=8069742139&Category_Code=PCM205
8)
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You are not helping Newf, but thank you.
Quiller
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Will we ever find out what a Dropper Maker was
David's suggestion is wholly credible. We just need to find facts to support it.
meles
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I think it might have been something associated with the lacemaking industry.
Jennifer
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Should have added to the above post that if you look at the 1861 census then most of the 'dropper makers' in Nottingham were in households that were closely associated with lacemaking
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer
I always thought so too, will definitely look at 1861 Census.
Thank you for your input.
Regards
Quiller
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I have Googled "Lacemaker + Dropper" and come up with a number of intriguing answers. But when I go to the sites, I can't get the info I need. I suspect a dropper is a lacemaking tool, but be blowed if I can find it! Not in the OED either...
Please, someone come up with the answer!
meles
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I think that I've found it but I'm not sure I can understand it.
It appears to be a device to cause the needles (commonly called droppers) to fall in sequence in a lace making machine.
I've made a bit of an assumption as the machine that I was reading about was a modern one.
Peter
modified as I couldn't understand it
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I have similarly found a couple of patents which seem to involve the dropper box in lacemaking machinery. I also was not sure because these were dated around 1925.
These involved a Jaquard machine. I associate the Jaquard process with embroidering cotton. It was invented in the early 1800s and used punched card to control the machinery producing the embroidery. I can see this method being adapted for lace production.
David
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Hi
Dennford: First of all I have never heard of any connection with the glass industry and have lived here most of my life. Lace, bikes, drugs and cigarettes. (Lots of firms, Raleigh, Boots, Players). Derby has connections with Crown Derby and Staffordshire has loads of potteries etc. but glass???
Quiller: I have been in contact with Cemetery South to see if there is any information. There are loads of parishes in Nottm and would not volunteer to look through them all as I work full time etc. There are also various council burial grounds that could be used. I don't quite understand why you have been in contact with the General Cemetery which is in the City when Trent Bridge Military Hospital, presumably in West Bridgford would have been in the County. I suspect Wilford Hill might be appropriate. I will keep you informed.
I also do not understand why the certificate is Lenton if they died in WB. Surely it should be registered in West Bridgford.
Jane
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Thank you David and Peter, excuse the delay in replying.
Thanks for your input, Jane will PM you soonest.
Best Regards to all for your help.
Quiller
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Hi Quiller
I have found one explanation of a dropper. In bobbin lace the end of the bobbins are often spangled with beads to weight them down. If there is a larger object dangling off the end, like a star or a bell etc this would be called a dropper.
But this may have nothing to do with your man. I will keep on looking.
Jane
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Hello Jane
Many Thanks.
Regards
Quiller
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Hi Quiller
I emailed Notts Archives but they don't know either.
Jane
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Hello Jane
Many thanks for your effort. I think we will get an answer eventually, one day perhaps.
Fondest Regards
Quiller
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Hi
Dennford: First of all I have never heard of any connection with the glass industry and have lived here most of my life. Lace, bikes, drugs and cigarettes. (Lots of firms, Raleigh, Boots, Players). Derby has connections with Crown Derby and Staffordshire has loads of potteries etc. but glass???
Quiller: I have been in contact with Cemetery South to see if there is any information. There are loads of parishes in Nottm and would not volunteer to look through them all as I work full time etc. There are also various council burial grounds that could be used. I don't quite understand why you have been in contact with the General Cemetery which is in the City when Trent Bridge Military Hospital, presumably in West Bridgford would have been in the County. I suspect Wilford Hill might be appropriate. I will keep you informed.
I also do not understand why the certificate is Lenton if they died in WB. Surely it should be registered in West Bridgford.
Jane
Sorry I have been a while getting back to this. First up let me say that I am of the opinion that we are talking lace industry rather than glass.
Now as for Nottingham and the glass industry, there are a handfull of references on the internet and coming from Sth Yorkshire I worked for a short while in the glass indusry which was quite a thriving industry in those parts and I am sure further south into Nottinghamshire but please note I did in my original post indicate that I may be mistaken.
I could be wrong, but I think that Nottingham had asolid connection with the glass industry - as did many towns in that Yorks'/Nott's area.
Denn
Here are a couple of pointers to that industry, but please keep in mind I am in no way trying to sway anyone from the lace theory - merely indicating another (remote) avenue of thought.
Denn
http://www.nottsfhs.org.uk/society/journals/jan98.htm
"stained glass windows made by George Frederick GASCOYNE and Alexander GASCOYNE between 1899 and 1927. Their glass works were at 7 Shakespeare Street and later at St Mary's Gate, Nottingham. Most of their work can still be found in Notts. and neighbouring counties, and also other parts of the country. Their logo was a "small golden lion with wings and a halo" which can usually be found in the bottom corner of the window. Information required on the family, the business or the whereabouts of any windows. "
http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/articles/tts/tts1926/itinerary1926p11.htm
Sneinton Street which was formerly called Newark Lane and has an easterly branch which we call Southwell Road but which was originally called Glass-House Street.
Glass works depicted on Buck's prospect of Nottingham, c.1750.
Buck's view of Nottingham of 1743 shows glass works in this neighbourhood and they belonged soon after this view was produced to a certain Italian, Count Palavicini or Paravicini who used them for the manufacture of both glass and pot and whose name has come down to our day in Count Street which runs parallel to Fisher Gate.
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Hi Dennford
There is still Glasshouse Street in town but I don't know the origin of its name. I will go to the library and have a look in Felkins book about the lace industry and other local books to see if I can put 'Dropper maker' to rest.
I must agree there must have been a stained glass trade for all the cities churches as alot of the stained glass windows in them are Victorian. I don't know where the glass was made though. In fact I don't know where glass is made these days, I only know of window companies and glaziers. We are having several stained glass windows repaired in our church and we always go to a large glaziers in town.
I am always pleased to learn more about my home city (but may feel a bit daft if it is by a Yorkshire man living in Oz!).
Jane
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Jane,
This has got me intrigued, As said I did work in the glass industry as a youngster, The company I worked for was called "Waterstone Glassware", who I believed had closed down long long ago. However a quick search has turned them back into existance at the same address and making the same high quality perfume bottles. Interesting though is the fact that they also show an address for Waterstone Glassware at,
"Charnwood House, 25 Gregory Boulevard, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, NG7 6NX
Category: Bottling Equipment Manufacture & Supply in Nottingham"
I don't know where the glass was made though. In fact I don't know where glass is made these days,
Jane
Certainly when I was living there, Sth Yorks had a thriving glass industry and a quick internet search indicates that it is still there - a company by the name of "Beatson Clark" being the major player. I guess it grew in such areas because of the abundance of fuel for thier furnaces. after all coal is the reason that the steel industry developed in that area.
I am always pleased to learn more about my home city (but may feel a bit daft if it is by a Yorkshire man living in Oz!).
Jane
I suppose my interest isn't in Nottingham itself but the industry. Anyhow my wife says that I'm daft all the time.
Denn
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By chance, I was on a bus today, and the lady I was sitting next to, was doing something very complicated with cotton thread. It looked like she was making lace.
I asked, "Are you lace making?"
"Yes, I am"
"What are those little dangly things called, that you are using to weave the lace?"
"Droppers - why?"
I explained my interest. She was stunned!
I'm convinced now it's not glass but lace. But - as ever! - open to persuasion.
meles
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Hi Jane,
I hope you eventually find what exactly a Dropper Maker is, I had a go at finding out at the beginning of this thread without any luck.
The Historical Directories have three entries and I am only a little wiser from looking on the census, I will mention it just in case it might be of any help.
I have no knowledge of the Lace industry so at first these three entries on the 1891 had me thinking it was spinning yarn …….. :D
1891 - RG12; Piece: 2697; Folio 68; Page 27
21, Clare St,Nottingham, St Mary
Frederick Wm Chambers,Dropper Maker (at the side is written Spin)
1891 – RG12; Piece: 2704; Folio 134; Page 9
64, Walker St, Snenton, Nottingham
Henry Clarke, DropperMaker\Machine Hand….(written above Spin)
1891 - RG12; Piece: 2695; Folio 37; Page 25
35, Eastville St, St Mary, Nottingham
George Heathcote, Dropper & Box Maker…..(written to the side Spin)
Then there was this one;
RG12; Piece: 2695; Folio 37; Page 25
35, Eastville St, St Mary, Nottingham
George Heathcote, Dropper & Box Maker…..(written to the side - Spin)
(Heathcote is a name mentioned in the directories)
From the 1881;
RG11/3346/26/12
27,Thoresby, St, Snenton, Nottinghamshire.
Henry Clarke, age 37, born Derby, Dropper Maker For Lace Machine.
So it does appear it is to do with Lace Making after all, I hope you manage to discover what they did Jane if only to stop me from wondering!
Best Wishes
Sheila.
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I'm convinced now it's not glass but lace. But - as ever! - open to persuasion.
meles
Totally agree with you, It's just that initially I thought of another possibility - and then ran off at a tangent.
By the way, since my post this morning I have dug up records that show Waterstone Glass going into receivership in 2000, The Nottingham address was it's registered office, but the factory was in South Yorks.
Denn
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You could email the Ruddington Museum http://www.rfkm.org/
When we visited earlier this year there were some incredibly knowledgeable people explaining about lace making in Nottingham.
There is a 'contact us' on the web site :)
I have checked in 'Framework Knitting' by Marilyn Palmer (one of the excellent Shire Publications www.shirebooks.co.uk ) and there were many hosiery knitters in the area as well as lace-making.
SM ...
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Don't I tell everyone I meet, that Rootschatters are the best !!
You lot are like a dog with a bone ;) I feel a little :-[ having started the topic off, but seem to have contributed so little. Personally I am convinced that it is something to do with the lace trade.
Thank you all for your effort.
Regards
Quiller
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Hi All
I have found out at last what a dropper is/was. A jacquard was the system of holes in cards to make the pattern of the lace on the machine. I have found an illustration of a mechanical jacquard.
"In the jacquard apparatus the pattern is pierced on a succession of cards laced together in a continuous roll. In sequence these cards are moved on to the face of a cylinder and as each is presented the action of pins (DROPPERS) on the card face controls the movements of threads in the machine."
So droppers were a type of pin which is not surprising as the needles are called sinkers. Needles were fragile and had to be repaced often so presumably did droppers.
I will ring Ruddington to confirm tomorrow as its only a local phone call for me.
Ref: Nottingham Lace 1760s - 1950s, Sheila A Mason, 1994
Jane
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Hi Jane,
A thank you from me..... :) ..... you can learn something new from this site every day.
Best Wishes,
Sheila.