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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: welshspencer on Friday 09 November 07 16:23 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I would like to ask peoples views on the following.
In My Drake Tree I have
John Drake Born 23 Sept 1773 Cheriton, Fitzpaine, Devon he married Anne Heal born 6 Jan 1771 Poughill, Devon, on the IGI there are these Children for a John and Ann Drake
Husband: John DRAKE (1773- )
Wife: Ann HEALE (1771- )
Marriage 9 Jun 1795 Poughill, Devon
Children: John DRAKE (1797-1863) Poughill, Devon
William DRAKE (1800-1882) Poughill, Devon
Mary Ann DRAKE (1 nov 1802) Crediton bap 3rd May 1807
Francis DRAKE (4th April 1805-1886) Crediton bap 3rd May 1807
Eliza DRAKE (1808- ) Crediton
Francis DRAKE (1811- ) Crediton
John DRAKE (1812-1888)
As you can see we have 2 x John Drake and 2 x Francis Drake. John 1797-1863 (in red) was a Colonial Broker whilst Francis 1805-1886 (in red) was a Solicitor in London. It was thought strange at the time given that father John was a Baker by trade. John 1812-1888 (in blue) was a Shoemaker. there is a Francis in the 1841 Census born c 1811 living in Dawlish.
Regarding The Francis born april 1805 Crediton we have him married to a Francis Lancfield on 13 oct 1830.
In the SOG London there is a book by Selby Whitingham the book dates back to the nineties has handmade charts. this book places this Francis whom married Frances Lancefiled as the son of Wiiliam and Charity Drake.
On the IGI there is a Francis Drake born 5 Sept 1804 son of William and Charity born in Crediton.
and then the other Francis Drake born 4th April 1805 son of John and Ann born in Crediton
The census was taken on the following dates
Sun/Mon. 6/7th June 1841
a.. Sun/Mon. 30/31st March 1851
a.. Sun/Mon. 7/8th April 1861
a.. Sun/Mon. 2/3rd April 1871
a.. Sun/Mon. 3/4th April 1881
a.. Sun/Mon. 5/6th April 1891
a.. Sun/Mon. 31st March / 1st April 1901
the ages it gives the francis Married to Frances in the Census is as follows
1841 aged 30 (rounded Down)
1851 aged 45
1861 aged 57
1871 aged 66
1881 aged 77
and there is a death for a Francis Drake in march Q 1886 aged 81 years.
How can I match the right Francis up with the right parents. one thought is that Frances born april 1805 died, so when a boy was born in 1811 they called him Francis? and the Francis born 1804 is the one whom married Frances Lancefield?
I have a simalar problem with the two Johns 1797 and 1812. sons of John 1773 and Ann Drake
John 1797 I have married to Frances Vanderstegen on 11 Feb 1823
John 1812 I have married to Elizabeth Bishop on 18 March 1832
The John Drake 1773 was the son of John Drake 1741 and when he died in 1818 he left a will in this will
In John Drakes 1741 will of 1818 it says
To my Grandson Francis Drake son of my Son John the Silver spoon with a Figure at the end of the handle.
and if Francis JOhn Drake son of Samuel dies the dwelling house should go to Francis Drake son of my son John.
So from this we know there was only one Francis Drake alive/ or mentioned in the will that beloned to John 1773.
In this will it only mentions 3 of John 1773 children
Francis as above
William To william son of my son John Drake I leave etc
Mary Ann Drake Daughter of my son John her grandmother best gold ring.
There is no mention of the two Johns we have 1797 and 1812, and as the older john would have been 21 years when his grandfather died and was not married at the time , you would have thought he would have been in the will (First male son.).
I hope someone can make head and tail of this...
Kind Regards
Russell
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Hello Russell
Phew!
Haven't read all of your note....it's a bit much to take in at one sitting but,the children could have been Baptised after they were christened if for instance they were members of a non-conformist church.
Jim
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Jim, if the children were baptised later, would they not have been done together ?
Simon
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Russell,
Were the IGI records submitted or extracted? They may be wrong - perhaps the person entering the information was as confused as you are ;).
Jim is right, there is a lot to take in.
I would tend to believe the information in the Whitingham book as it specifically mentions the relationships. When you say the book dates from the nineties, which nineties do you mean? I presume it is contemporary to the actual events?
So, my simple theory:
There are two sets of parents, William and Charity and John and Ann.
John and William were brothers/cousins both living in Crediton at the same time.
John the broker and Francis the solicitor were brothers.
John the shoemaker is son of John the baker.
That's about as much as I can grasp at the moment. Hopefully someone with a good mind will be able to help with this puzzle.
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if the children were baptised later, would they not have been done together
This is true,one would expect that but our rellies didn't always do what we expect them to.
Just concentrating on Francis (that's all I can manage at the moment)
Francis b.1804=William & Charity
Francis b.1805 & Francis b.1811=John & Ann
It wasn't uncommon to have more than one child with the same name due to high mortality rates amongst children,this was a way of preserving a favourite name.
I agree with Ruskie about the confusion.Ideally you need to check the entries yourself particularly the marriages to see if any siblings were witnesses.
Jim
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THE WILL
Mentions another (presumably) Grandson Francis John son of Samuel who may have been living with his Grandfather & caring for him in his old age & was therefore left the bulk of his estste which didn't leave much for anyone else.He may have had favourite Grandchildren or thought the others had enough already so was discerning in his choice.
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I might be stating the obvious but how certain are you that the first 2 children
John b.1797 & William b.1800 (Pougham) are siblings to the others,John & Ann are very common names.
Jim
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Hi all
And thank you for your replys, all the records on the igi are extracted.
We have not been able to match the William and Charity to John and Ann as yet. We are not 100% certain that the firts two children are siblings to the others,
But they were both born in Poughill. and we know that John Drake and Ann Heal were married in Poughill 9 June 1795. John was born in Cheriton Fitzpaine and is recorded there in the 1841/51 Census, Cheriton is 1.4 miles form Poughill and 4 miles form Crediton.
Am not sure about John the broker and Francis the solicitor were brothers.?
Not if Francis 1804 is the one that is the solictor and is son of William and Charity.
as the John the broker is the son of John and Ann.
I have attached the will of the Grandfather John Drake born 1741 died 30 July 1818.
In the 1841 census John is living with his wife and his brother Samuel.
Kind Regards
Russell
in the will it menations all of the children execpt one of the Francis, both the Johns and Eliza
I forgot to add in the SOG Book. that shows Francis son of William and Charity. it has william b 1762 d 1869 and married 1793 being the son of John Drake and Elizabeth Vowler with them being married 1759 credtiion
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Am not sure about John the broker and Francis the solicitor were brothers.?
According to the info. supplied they weren't brothers.Probably distantly related.
You may be right in that one Francis has died but which one.
For this you need to search the PR's there's no escaping it I'm afraid.
Are there any other wills?
Are there any monumental inscriptions?
Is this family mentioned in the Crediton Tythes?
You can only get this from the RO.
Jim
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The will mentions "my son John Drake and his now wife Ann" which suggests that he had been married before and she was his second wife.
Carole
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http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=ancestorsearchresults.asp
try this site for weird
sylvia
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JOHN DRAKE
married
ANN DAVIS
17 MAR 1772 Stoke Damerel Devon
sylvia
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Dear friends. I am a Drake descendant. I need your help, as much as you (hopefully) can benefit from mine. I have met Dr Selby Whittingham and I have many documents to hand. He faced similar problems and when I spoke to him a few years ago he said the best way to unravel might be to visit local records offices and churches around Crediton. Local history groups. That sort of thing. What I do have a tree he has created. I have attached it here. It is not complete. There is a John of John and Eliz. Vowler who is born 1760. Eldest son. But there is no information about lineage. It is possible he died young and childless, or it is possible, that Dr Whittingham was simply unable to research him. As I am descended from Francis&Frances, this is not my concern. Where we have mutual interest is John and Elizabeth Vowler and going backwards from there. Can anyone hlep?