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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: LockeRoots on Tuesday 04 December 07 12:22 GMT (UK)
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Researching the Lock's of Gloucester 1690's to now.
Trying to link Henry Lock of South Cerney 1770's to Richard Lock of Ampney Crucis 1690's.
Henry Lock is a Romany.
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Richard Lock m. Mary Eldridge 26 May 1698 at Ampney Crucis
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Henry Lock m. Rachel Tanner 9 Oct 1774 Avening Cloucs.
both marriages from Phillimores
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Thanks Toni
I guess I should have been a lot more specific in my post, but it was darn early morning and I had been up all night lol.
Here is where I am at in my search.
Richard Lock
Marriage Date: May 26th, 1698
Ampney Crucis, Gloucester, England
To: Mary Eldridge
At The Holy Rood Church
Richard Lock
Christening: August 31st, 1699
Ampney Crucis, Gloucester, England
Parents: Richard Lock & Mary
They are I think are my USA immigrants.
And I believe they also spent time in Islip, Oxfordshire
Anne Lock
Christening: December 18th, 1698
Islip, Oxford, England
Parents: Richard Lock & Mary
Joseph Lock
Christening: December 15th, 1700
Islip, Oxford, England
Parents: Richard Lock & Mary
I am fairly certain the Richard Lock & Mary in Islip are one and the same Richard Lock & Mary Eldridge in Ampney Crucis, the children's christening dates and names fit in with what I know of my Lock's.
I do not know who Richard Lock's parents are yet. But I am trying to make the connection between Richard Lock of Ampney Crucis to Henry Lock of South Cerney.
Henry Locke
Marriage date: January 22nd, 1775
South Cerney, Gloucester, England
To: Sarah Peters
Mary Lock
Christening: March, 12th, 1775
South Cerney, Gloucester, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Sarah
Henry Lock
Christening: March 7th, 1778
South Cerney, Gloucester, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Sara
Hannah Lock
Christening: September 10th, 1781
South Cerney, Gloucester, England
Parents: Harry (Henry) Lock & Sarah
I have the DNA evidence to state that Henry Lock of South Cerney is related to Richard Lock, but how they are related I do not know yet. The issue is, we can't figure out who Henry Lock's parents were, and that I can trace further back in the tree back to Richard Lock but do not know who Richard's parents were.
Henry Lock's male descendant is a 65/67 DNA match to me, a Richard Lock descendant, which clearly proves Richard and Henry are directly related.
Henry Lock is a proven Romany which makes this more difficult to trace the records, because they were always on the move lol.
In the American records, Richard Lock and wife Mary and their 2 surviving children Richard Lock Jr. and daughter Mary Lock Perry are first found living in Calvert County Maryland in 1728, possibly a little bit earlier.
Richard Lock Sr. posted a Will dated 1745 in Calvert County Maryland in which he names his 2 surviving children Richard Lock Jr. and daughter Mary Perry, we presume she was the wife of
William Perry also of Calvert County Maryland.
In 1748, Richard Lock ( not sure if it was Richard Jr. or Richard Sr., but likely Jr. ) was named on a
St. Marys County Maryland Colonial Soldiers Roster along with many other men from Calvert County Maryland.
In 1755, Richard Lock was a witness to the Will of Walter Shirley in Frederick County Virginia, so some time between 1745 and 1755, Richard Lock and family left Maryland for Virginia.
In 1763, they are found living in Frederick County Virginia. Richard Lock and wife Mary and son Richard Lock Jr. leased land on a 10 year contract. No land deeds can be located for Richard Lock Sr. or Jr. as owning land in Maryland or Virgina in their life times, but the one land deed lease was found.
I believe this is but a small portion of a much larger Romany Lock family of England. Last night, I learned of another Romany Lock branch who currently lives in Devon thanks to the chat room here! :)
There can't be multiple unrelated Romany Lock familys in England I wouldn't think?
One would presume them all to be related.
So I am in search of the Romany Lock's of Devon also.
Thanks again for any help
Donald Locke
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i take it you have looked on IGI, i have not yet, i found the marriages on Phillimores unfortuantley it did not give any mroe info. than you already have, perhaps someone who goes to Gloucestershire RO will be able to help you further (fingers crossed)
also the place of marriage is not necessary where the persons married lived
will look at IGI later
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Yes I have transcribed all the Gloucester IGI records and then some. But I suspect Richard Lock was also a Romany, so not sure if he actually lived anywhere lol.
Thanks for trying!
Don
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:) I have Locke in Aldbourne, Wilts. Norris's in Islip Oxon.
and welcome to Rootschat :D Lesanne
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Hi Lesanne
I don't know if my Locke's were in Wiltshire, but always possible. I am just now collecting information, so my knowledge of where they were is still all new to me.
Is your branch Romany?
Don
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Hi Locke, It's always been said in family that the ancestors were Romany from Ireland many moons ago. So far, I dont know how....
Must away to work. Back tonite. ;)
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Hello, I am new and I see that this particular subject has not been touched on for some time.
I am wondering if we could have a connection here, but I do not have any proof yet!
My Grt grandfather many times removed was Henry Lock born c. 1777/78 Gloucester (or sometimes in the census down as Aberford also). He married a lady called Hannah Riley of Aberford in 1803. No family witnesses on the cert. We have always wondered where he really came from, as there are no prior records for Lock's in Aberford before 1803. They had about 10 children. I was helped with my research whilst up in Yorkshire and the records showed that Sarah and Henry Lock from South Cerney could have been Henry's parents? Not sure yet, as I have not actual proof.
However names follow in families and Henry did not come from Yorkshire before he married Hannah. They named their first child Sarah Lock born 1803,then Mary Lock born 1807, Henry 1809, George 1810, Mary 1811, Martha 1811,(twins, first Mary died), Anne 1814, Hannah 1817, John 1818 and Joseph 1824 all Aberford. Henry was down as a farmer and laborer. Henry died aged 92 yrs in 1869.
I am really stuck on this one.
The main characteristics which have passed down the Lock side that we have seen have been black hair, a Grecian nose, broad mouth and very large hands?!
Anyway, I could well be barking up the wrong tree, but worth a try!
Thanks anyway Paula Locke
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Donald
If it will help, I can search the South Cerney PRs for Henry Lock's baptism, also, if available, the Ampney Crucis PR for Richard senior's, though going back that far the register would probably only give his father's name.
I'll be visiting the Gloucestershire Archives next week sometime.
Gillg
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Hi Gillg
That would be wonderful! Not sure what maybe found, but worth a shot :)
I am stuck on this end, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Paula
The Henry Lock you describe, sounds like he maybe one and the same Henry Lock son of Henry & Sarah. And having married a Riley seems to fit in to the profile too.
What really peaks my interest is the name George! I know one branch traces back to a George Lock, but had not been able to figure out who his parents were as of yet, so you may have just given me a good lead to follow up on. The name George was used fairly often in my early USA generations, in fact I am the descendant of 2 George Lock''s in my direct line.
The names John and Joseph were also used in the early generations of my tree also.
The name Henry was rarely used in my direct tree in the early generations.
I hadn't looked at Yorkshire as of yet, so will take a look there and see what I can dig up.
Don
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I should be a little more specific on this connection.
Matthew Lock
Christening: January 2nd, 1785
Biddulph, Stafford, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Sarah
This Matthew Lock son of Henry Lock & Sarah are presumed to likely be one and the same
Henry Lock & Sarah Peters of South Cerney.
The Matthew Lock christened 1785 in Biddulph, it is his male descendant that I am a 65/67 DNA match to, and both our lineages are in a rare Y Haplo Group H1a. This rare Y Haplo Group H1a appears to have originated in India.
No other Lock(e) lineages in England or the USA to date, are in this rare Y Haplo H1a, only Matthew Lock and Richard Lock lineages are in this rare H1a.
Of 61 Lock(e) men in England and the USA whom have DNA tested to date, only Matthew Lock and Richard Lock's lineages are in this rare H1a.
As more Romany Lock(e) branches get involved in DNA testing, we can be very certain they too will also be in this rare Y Haplo H1a.
Thanks to DNA testing, we now know 2 Lee branches and 1 Burton branch of England are also in this rare Y Haplo H1a, just like the Lock(e)'s.
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Dear Gillg and Lockeroots,
Thank you so much for your replies.
Gillg, I do not want to take up your own search time, but if you do come up with any info that would be great. Thanks.
I have been in touch several times with the Borthwick Institute for Archives, York and they have been a great help. What's interesting for me is that Joseph, son of Henry and Hannah born 1824, Aberford seems to dissapear after the 1851 census, during which he is living with Henry lock born 1778, head 73 yrs, agr labourer, Martha Smith, daughter of Henry and Joseph lock born 1824 is son, Agr labourer. After that i have not been able to find him. As to George Lock born or christened 29th July 1810,Aberford, son of Henry and Hannah lock, well I have little or no info on him after this bit of info, no census records anyway. There is another George Lock from Aberford ,but not until some many yrs later. Could they both have emigrated?
Could i ask what links you have been able to make in the connection between henry and Richard lock? Also how do the Riley's fit in?
My line deffinitely carries the name Henry all the way through.
Can I say as a point of interest, that Henry Lock and Sarah named their children Mary, henry and correct me If I am wrong George. His son Henry born 1777/78 named his first child Sarah, then Mary and then Henry and George.
I have a whole lot more info from then on if you want it, but do not want to bore you now!!
Anyway thanks again and really look forward to hearing from you and hopefully to tie up a few loose ends your way too.
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Sorry just to add that i have just noticed that Gillg was talking to lockeroots, sorry for the presumption!!
I am fascinated by the Romany connection, as I had no idea. I knew we had a few tales to tell in our family.
just to add, that there is a church in Aberford called St Ricarus and it has many graves of the Lock and Locke family there. Oh! and I have not been able to follow the search for john lock born 1818 either son of Henry and Hannah. he too seems to have disappeared or died. I am going to re-apply to the Borthwick institute for more info.
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tweetypie ;D
It's an open forum, and of course you'll get any information I can find in Glos Archives.
Gillg
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Typically having a settled family in this time frame would indicate this isn't a Romany Lock branch.
But with that said, what makes your Lock's so very interesting is the fact that Henry Lock married the Riley, and it appears Henry's daughters married Smith's.
So if we ignore the fact that they were settled and not traveling, just by looking at the surnames involved, at least suggests your Lock's could be Romany.
Henry Lock
Marriage date: June 19th, 1803
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
To: Hannah Riley
Sarah Lock
Christening: February 26th, 1804
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
Mary Lock
Christening: February 1st, 1807
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
Henry Lock
Birth date: May 25th, 1808
Christened: July 2nd, 1809
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
George Lock
Christening: July 29th, 1810
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
Mary Lock
Christening: September 23rd, 1811
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
Martha Lock
Christening: September 23rd, 1811
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
John Lock
Christening: August 10th, 1813
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
Anne Lock
Christening: November 6th, 1814
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
Hannah Lock
Christening: April 13th, 1817
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
John Lock
Christening: October 11th, 1818
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
Joseph Lock
Christening: April 16th, 1824
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
Parents: Henry Lock & Hannah
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Anne Lock
Marriage date: February 22nd, 1835
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
To: Thomas Smith
Martha Lock
Marriage date: December 31st, 1836
Aberford, Yorkshire, England
To: James Smith
I think the law of averages gives your Henry Lock a better then average chance to be a Rom considering the connections to the Riley's and Smith's. That doesn't prove they are Rom, just suggests they could be.
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:)That's great thanks Gillg and Lockeroots.
Can i ask are Riley and smith typical Romany names then? I had no idea about the name lock being so :)
What then happened to George, Joseph and John? Do you think they might have moved to the USA or Australia?
I don't want to put all Romanies in the same pot, but my lot did drink and fight!! Infact Henry lock born 1838 went to jail for a spell and we all think it was down to drinking and fighting!! Jack lock born later in the 1870's was in a travelling fair around the time of the first world war in the Woodhouse area of Leeds!
Do you think I should look else where for Henry lock snr parent's? Do you know anything of him? (Henry b.1777/78)
The thing is, unless I can prove the birth info for Henry snr, I am only presuming that he is related to your line. It's sssssooooooooo frustrating!!
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:) I have just re-read one of your earlier posts, sorry I am going to have to catchup quickly!!
Do you mind telling me, as I do not know, how you know that Henry lock is a proven Romany? :)
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Which Henry Lock are you speaking of? Henry Lock father of Matthew Lock is no doubts Romany, I am in contact with one of his descendants. Your Henry Lock of Aberford, I don't know if he is Romany or not.
DNA testing on Matthew Lock's male descendant proves he is in Y Haplo Group H1a, which appears to have originated in India / Pakistan area, and the Romany are thought to have been Indian descendants according to linguistics experts and historians.
So besides the language base being Indian in origin, because they are in fact Indian descendants, they obviously carried over with them Indian DNA in them.
It is when you add the history, language, and DNA together, you can clearly identify the European Romany as Indian descendants.
Riley and Smith are typical Romany / Traveler surnames yes, as is Lock(e), Boswell, and lots of others. Not all travelers are Romany though, but may have close or distant ties to the Romany families, while other travelers may not have blood ties to the Romany what so ever.
Did you read the private message I sent to you? There is no longer any need to be frustrated in the paper trail research. With a simple DNA test, we can tell if your Lock(e)'s are a DNA match to the Romany Lock(e)'s. Even with out a solid paper trail, DNA testing being done on us males can help prove a family connection.
DNA testing will not tell us how 2 men are related, but will tell us if they shared a common male ancestor. If one of your Lock(e) men gets DNA tested, we can compare his Y chromosome to 61 other Lock(e) men who have already DNA tested from England and the USA.
Of the 61 men, 2 Romany Lock branches are represented in the Locke DNA project already.
If your Lock(e)'s are Romany, they should be in this rare Y Haplo Group H1a, and if in fact they are in Y Haplo H1a, you will have your proof because H1a is not native to Europe, it is native to India.
Of 61 Lock(e) men of England and the USA whom have DNA tested to date, the only 2 lineages in this rare Y Haplo Group H1a is Henry Lock father of Matthew Lock and Richard Lock.
So 2 Romany Lock branches are already DNA tested to compare to your Lock(e) lineage.
And what you speak of with Jack Lock having been involved in the fairs, is another good indicator of a Romany connection. Like I said before, if we ignore the fact that your Henry Lock was settled as early as he was, with the marriages to Riley and Smith's is a good indicator this is a Rom Lock branch. Add in the fair part of the history tells me you could in fact be related to us.
Some of the Rom Lock's were settled as early as 1841 according to the census records, so I would presume others likely settled far earlier then 1841. The settled branches are harder to tell if they are Romany because they are no longer traveling.
DNA testing your male Lock(e)'s is the key here. 6 Lock(e)'s in the USA and 1 in England have already DNA tested and confirmed we are all a good DNA match to one another, and all 7 of us are in Y Haplo Group H1a. So you have the perfect opportunity here to prove a blood connection to our tree with a simple DNA test on one of your males. What you have shared with me so far, seems to clearly indicate you could very well be correct, that your Henry Lock just maybe the son of Henry Lock and Sarah Peters of South Cerney. If your Henry Lock is in fact the son of Henry Lock and Sarah Peters, then Matthew Lock would be a brother to your Henry Lock.
Even with out a solid paper trail, DNA can at least confirm your Henry Lock is a Rom by comparing your male Locke's to Matthew Lock and Richard Lock's male descendants.
The Lock(e)'s are not the only Roms in this rare Y Haplo H1a either, we have since discovered
2 Lee branches and 1 Burton branch are also in this rare H1a. And a Mr. Smith has recently ordered a DNA test and will will get to see his test results in the next month or so.
Feel free to email me privately for more details regarding DNA testing.
Donald Locke
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Here is another good clue, but not certain how William Lock fits in to the picture.
1851 Aberford, Yorkshire, England census
District 8
Page 16
# 64
John Warton, age 75, b. Aberford, Yorkshire, he is a widow, Laborer
Son in Law: William Lock, age 46, b. Ferrybridge, Yorkshire, Laborer
Wife: Elizabeth Lock, age 35, b. Aberford, Yorkshire
Son: Samuel Lock, age 7, b. Aberford, Yorkshire
Warton / Wharton is another known Romany surname, and it appears William Lock married
Elizabeth Warton daughter of John Warton.
So that makes connections to Smith, Riley and Warton presuming we can figure out who this William Lock is to Henry Lock. I am betting William Lock is likely another son of Henry Lock, but not listed in the IGI records online. William Lock would have been born about 1805 which fits in to the exact time frame of being a likely son of Henry Lock & Hannah Riley.
But unfortunately Ferry Bridge is not listed in the IGI records online to check to be certain he was actually born there.
If William Lock can be proven to be another son of Henry Lock, then you will also have Warton connections and that makes your Romany case very strong in my eyes.
Locating William Lock's christening record is needed to help prove he is the son of Henry Lock.
I will keep searching. With Riley, Smith and now Warton, makes for a pretty strong case your Henry Lock is likely a Rom as far as I am concerned.
Thank you very much for bringing this to my attention! :)
Don
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William Lock married January 29, 1834 in Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England to
Elizabeth Warton / Wharton.
Source: IGI records
can't be certain this is one and the same William Lock, but looks close.
William Lock was born 30 DEC 1809 , christened 04 NOV 1818 Saint Savior, Dartmouth, Devon, England, son of Henry Lock & Hannah.
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Thank you, what a lot of info! my tiny brain is beginning to steam already!!
Just to add before I forget, Henry lock born 1777/78 was noted down for all his children as either farmer, laborer, but on the entry of his last child Joseph born 1824, he is listed as a navigator?
William Lock, well I have not been able to tie into my family tree yet. There are a few Lock's from Ferrybridge which appear to have come to Aberford around the same time as Henry snr, but as yet I have not found a direct connection to my lot.
Of the headstones at St Ricarus, Aberford for the Lock's, well they are all very large, fine stones and must have cost a lot for that time and yet as far as I can tell, most of the family were in some sort of service as laborers, gardeners etc?!
I need to get back in touch with the Borthwick Institute.
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William Lock born 30th Dec 1809, but christened in 1818?(very late to christen)? Do you know where exactly he was born? Only i have noticed that Henry Lock was born on the 25th May, 1808 in Aberford and christened on the 2nd July 1809. there is room to have had another child in between henry 1808 and George born 1810, but when I did a search through the Borthwick institute they did not list him with the others, maybe because he is either unrelated or he was maybe born out of that parish? Do you know?
If William is another of their children, i wonder why they were down in Devon and why they had him christened so many years later?
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I do not know the answer to your questions yet. I do not know where William Lock was born, nor do I know why he was christened so late. In the census records, William says he was born in Ferry Bridge, but I do not rely on what folks say in the census to be true and factual.
All I do know is, his birth date and parents names do fit in. But we can not know if they are one and the same Henry & Hannah Lock of Aberford.
I still have much to do, still have census records to transcribe and other records to check out.
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Don
I searched in the South Cerney parish records for Henry Locke's baptism between 1740 and 1760, but I'm afraid he wasn't there, so must have been baptised elsewhere.
The baptism of Richard, son of Richard & Mary Lock in Ampney Crucis took place on 31 Aug 1699 as you said earlier, and was easily found and clear to read.
Sorry I couldn't help with Henry.
Gillg
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Thanks Gillg
That helps a lot, so I know to look elsewhere for Henry Lock :)
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Lesanne & Paula
I would like to invite you 2 and anyone else who maybe interested to my new
Romany Genealogy message board, so we can discuss our possible Lock connections more.
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Romany_Genealogy/index.php
Don
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Old thread I know, but just to confirm that Henry Lock of South Cerney was buried there in 1811.
Therefore he cannot be the Romany Henry Lock who was the father of Matthew Lock (who married Remembrance Boswell) and daughters Unity and Sarah. Henry Lock was present at his daughters' weddings in 1815, which were widely reported in the newspapers.
I am descended from another of Henry's daughters, Lavinia, who was baptised at Madeley, Salop, in 1799.
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I have a clue that I have not shared as of yet and will share it now.
In 1930 when my direct forefather George Simon Locke passed away in Texas USA, his family was cleaning out his home and found an old Lock family bible. The family bible belonged to George's grand father Rev. Jacob Lock of Barren County, Kentucky USA.
The bible of Rev. Jacob Lock had multiple generations of the family birth, marriages, deaths noted in it, which was exciting to see, but it was what was in the bible that really got the family really excited.
In the family bible, they found an old British record, but that record has not been seen since 1935.
There are multiple oral stories about what became of this British record, regardless, the record has vanished and no one has seen it since 1935.
John H. Locke son of George Simon Locke, John sent the British Chancery division a letter in 1935 requesting more information about this British record, but unfortunately John failed to give enough details. The Royal Court of Justice sent John H. Locke a response stating they needed more information, but that they had looked at the Chancery records and did not find the record that John was looking for.
But the Royal Court of Justice did mention something that I found quite interesting, they said they needed a date of the proceeding in regards to some property that came under the control of the Court.
The way this response is worded, implies that Richard Lock had some land in England, and for what ever the reasons were, the land came under the control by the court. I know that my assumed immigrant ancestor was in Colonial Virginia by 1763, likely a bit earlier then 1763, so what ever happened back in England, almost must have happened before 1763.
If this British record can be found in the UK records, it just might help explain the why and how Richard Lock ended up in the American Colonies.