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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: ResearchPress on Sunday 20 January 08 16:19 GMT (UK)
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I have the birth certificate for Robert Charles Collings, 28 March 1876. Address 3 Cates Cottages, Clifton, Bristol.
Parents: John Collings and Eliza Ann Woodland.
John is identifed as being an excavator.
I have spent many hours searching for reference to any of the above, but have 'hit a brick wall.' I cannot find any reference to them in the 1881 or 1891 census, nor can I find any reference to the marriage of John and Eliza.
Robert Collings reappears in the 1901 census, by which time he is married to Alice Elizabeth King. They married in 1897 and Roberts father, John Collings, is identified as deceased.
If anyone has any bright ideas or any information that could lead to John and Alice I would love to hear from you. Thank.
David
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In the 1881 census I found a John Collings 46 Boarder, Widower, Road Labourer living in Avon Square, Clifton. Born in Dorset.
There is no Robert Charles Collings mentioned but free bmd gives details of two Eliza(beth) Collins death registrations at Clifton in 1876 with appropriate aad.
An excavator could work on roads.
Regards
Chas
P.S.
Using the wild card * at free bmd I found a few more Collingses birth registrations at Clifton between 1850 and 1875. Maybe no children of John C but any straw might be worth grasping :)
P.P.S. An Eliza Ann Woodland was, according to the full m-index on Ancestry, married in Wareham. IGI gives a submitted marriage entry for J.C. in Wareham in 1862. You can buy the m-cert on line (Google for GRO) marriage in Wareham Dec qtr 1862 Vol 5a Page 662. Freebmd shows Susan but have a look at the scan - it's Ann.
I reckon your wall's knocked down and your query completed :)
Regards again
Chas
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There is no Robert Charles Collings mentioned but free bmd gives details of two Eliza(beth) Collins death registrations at Clifton in 1876 with appropriate aad.
One death was for Eliza Ann Collins. How sure are you that Eliza did not die before/during the childbirth? That could explain him not being in the 1881 census.
Chas
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Thanks for the feedback and pointers, I have been plugging away at this and think I have a story that fits, but proving it is still nagging me!
In Oct/Dec quarter 1862, John Collins married Eliza Ann Woodland at Wareham, Dorset.
In the 1871 census John (33, masons labourer) and Eliza Collins (33) are living in Dorchester, with sons William (7) and Henry (2). John, William and Henry are all born in Wareham.
In the Jul/Sep quarter of 1871, a Henry Collins (2) died at Dorchester.
On 28 March 1876, Robert Charles Collings was born in Clifton, Bristol, to parents; John Collings (excavator) and Eliza Ann Woodland. The father, John, is the informant on the birth certificate and the birth was not registered until 4 May 1876.
An Elizabeth Collins (37) died in the Apr/Jun quarter of 1876 at Clifton, Bristol.
In the 1881 census a John Collings (46, road labourer) born in Dorset is living as a boarder in Clifton, Bristol.
In the 1881 census William Collins (17, born Wareham, Dorset) is on board HMS Cambridge at Plymouth.
Robert Charles Collings has not been traced in either the 1881 or 1891 census.
Robert Collings married Alice Elizabeth King on 5 June 1897. The certificate records his father John Collings (labourer) as deceased.
I suppose it is the interchanging of Collins and Collings that still nags at me, and not being able to find the wherebouts of Robert in either 1881 or 1891.
Robert was born at 3 Cates Cottages, Clifton, Bristol. Can anyone suggest where to look for his baptism - this may confirm whether his mother was still alive.
Would the death certificate give any useful information? Presumably it would perhaps clarify if Elizabeth Collins died as a result of childbirth.
To me the balance of probabilities appears to point to this as the same family, but am I just making a story 'fit' the information I have. Any suggestions as to ways of verifying the relationships would be appreciated or am I just getting picky now? :)
David
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I am rather annoyed that I spent quite a long time searching for information you already knew but seem to have not given in your original request.
I'll not bother with any more of your postings if you cannot give ALL details.
Chas
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Chas,
There seems to be some confusion here. I posted ALL the information I had in my original post. ie. Robert Charles Collings birth date and address, parents names, the fact I lost him in 1881 and 1891, and that in 1901 he was married. Getting any further back I was lost and had no leads.
You found the Dorset connection and posted the information here. You found the marriage of John Collins and Eliza Ann Woodland. You found the death of an Elizabeth Collins in 1876.
Since you posted yesterday I have used that information to search ancestry and try and piece together a story that fits. I think I have found a family that fits, but the slight change in surname still concerns me and I still can't find Robert in 1881 or 1891.
Starting with my base information, I have used the leads you gave to Dorset and conducted research which I posted here for scrutiny. Without your help I would still be banging my head against a brick wall.
Once again, I thank you for posting the leads which appear to have solved my riddle.
Kind regards,
David
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O.K. sorry about my confusion.
Chas
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I'm glad we've cleared the confusion. :)
So, back to the queries...
Does anyone have opinions as to the switching of Collins and Collings.
Chas has found a marriage of John Collins and Eliza Ann Woodland in Wareham, Dorset in 1862.
I have a birth cerificate for Robert Charles Collings, born to John Collings and Eliza Ann Woodland in 1876.
How can I be sure that these are the same couple? I haven't found reference to any other marriages that could fit.
It appears that Eliza may have died at childbirth, at least a reference in the BMD index has been found that could fit. I haven't ordered the death certificate yet.
The informant on Robert's birth certifcate was John, but not until about five weeks after Robert's birth - this could indicate that John was dealing with Eliza's burial?
Robert was born at 3 Cates Cottages, Clifton, Bristol. What parish would this be in? I would like to see if I can find a baptismal record.
As I said in an earlier posting, based on info Chas has found and subsequent searching of the census, I have a story that fits. The Collings/Collins changes still nag a little and the inability to find any record of Robert in 1881 and 1891 is a puzzle.
What has now been found appears correct, but is it true? Maybe I am being to fussy? ::)
David
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David,
{My comments} are below.
Chas has found a marriage of John Collins and Eliza Ann Woodland in Wareham, Dorset in 1862.
{You must get the cert.}
It appears that Eliza may have died at childbirth, at least a reference in the BMD index has been found that could fit. I haven't ordered the death certificate yet.
{The d-cert may help but do not expect too much}
The informant on Robert's birth certifcate was John, but not until about five weeks after Robert's birth - this could indicate that John was dealing with Eliza's burial?
{Dealing with the loss of his wife perhaps and the threat of a fine for not registering the birth concentrated the mind}
Robert was born at 3 Cates Cottages, Clifton, Bristol. What parish would this be in? I would like to see if I can find a baptismal record.
{Check the LDS library catalogue and if available go to the nearest LDS church and hire the film}
. . . . Maybe I am being to fussy? ::)
{Maybe, but if J.C. could not read he would not have known about the spelling}
This could be completed and another topic opened if needs be when you have certs.
Regards
Chas
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Thanks again for the feed back. I'll pursue the lines discussed and see what turns up.
Regards,
David
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Did you sort this out? John Collins from Wareham was my 2nd great uncle and I don't have a son called Robert for him and Eliza Ann Woodland. The last child they had was Walter born in 1878. John Collins died in 1900. Eliza died some time after 1891.