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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 11:00 GMT (UK)

Title: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 11:00 GMT (UK): I'm not sure if this is the correct board for this question but here goes anyway.
I have a photo of what is supposedly the same person but taken 40 years apart. It is very hard to tell if they are one and the same. Are there any resources available that could help me to establish if it is the same person.
Thanks Tina :-\
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: janan on Tuesday 29 January 08 11:04 GMT (UK): Hi Tina
You could try posting the two photos side by side here - the combined forces of Rootschat are a pretty powerful resource!
Jan ;)
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 11:16 GMT (UK): Hi Jan
Thanks for that.
I'ts so hard to tell but as you said Roots chatters are a pretty powerful force so fingers crossed.
Tina :D
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: mudge on Tuesday 29 January 08 13:49 GMT (UK): Hi Tina
Here are the 2 together for better comparison
Mudge
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: Emjaybee on Tuesday 29 January 08 14:04 GMT (UK): They fit one on the other.

The chin is exactly the same too.
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 14:14 GMT (UK): Thank you very much for that
I've been sat here trying to superimpose one over the other for about an hour. :P So are we agreed that it is infact the same man. They are very similar it was just the eyes that didn't seem to look right.
Tina
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: Roobarb on Tuesday 29 January 08 14:45 GMT (UK): Sorry to disagree but I don't think they are the same person! Even accounting for old age when he may have lost his teeth, the lips don't look the same shape. Also the eyebrows look totally different to me in terms of shape and spacing.

(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Others/shaving-201.gif)
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 14:56 GMT (UK): Interesting. :-\ I wish I had a photo of an age in between to compare it to.There must be some age progression expert out there. I will have to try and find one.
Cheers for the advice.
Tina
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: Keithchr on Tuesday 29 January 08 16:03 GMT (UK): Is it me...or are the ears of the older man much higher up his head?
Might be just the different angle :)

Keith
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: Roobarb on Tuesday 29 January 08 17:43 GMT (UK): Could be due to what was mentioned in a previous post about the ears getting longer with old age!
(http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/animal0030.gif) (http://www.smilieshq.com)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,275394.0.html
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 17:55 GMT (UK): I'm really confused now ::).I was really hoping it was the same man as it holds the key to a very old family mystery. The more I study it the more they look the same. Wishful thinking?
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: chinakay on Tuesday 29 January 08 18:28 GMT (UK): I've been playing with this a bit...I printed the side-by-side out and marked and measured the facial features. The length of the nose and the earlobes may change over life, enlarging a bit, but features such as distance between the eyes and ear, and length of the upper lip (called the philtrum :D) do not.

The second photo looks like it has been enlarged to match the first, so it's not as distinct. Anyway, I was looking for a ratio, not raw numbers, because if you measure a large photo against a small photo you won't get the same numbers even if it's the same person. However, it seems I don't even have to work out a ratio because the heads in both photos seem to be exactly the same size.

So here are some numbers for you, raw. You can draw your own conclusions, everybody :D

Feature: Photo # 1 Photo #2

Distance from pupil to pupil: 15mm 16mm
Width of mouth: 11mm 11mm
Length of nose
(from line drawn between
pupils to end of nose): 10mm 11mm
Nose to chin (from came line): 25mm 25mm
Length of philtrum: 7mm 6mm
Distance between tops of ear arch: 37mm 37mm

Over to you :D

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 18:52 GMT (UK): Wow China thats clever stuff. ;D Maybe I will never be 100% sure. Or maybe someone will come up with that elusive in between photo. You are all so helpful. Can't remember what I used to do with myself before I discovered Roots. I think it's him but maybe that family mystery will have to stay unsolved for a while longer. :-X
Many many thanks Tina
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: oldtimer on Tuesday 29 January 08 18:59 GMT (UK): China, you are so clever :o :o :o :o

I think that the men are very similar, especially the baggy eyes and bushy eyebrows. Even the mouth looks the same to me.

If I had to give a definite answer, I would say it is the same man.
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 19:08 GMT (UK): Hi Oldtimer.
When all is said and done I think they look the same too. As I said there is about 40 yrs difference in the photos. Even the pictures of my mum when she was young look nothing like her in later life. I wonder if my G G grandchildren will be having this same conversation about me in 100 years time :-\
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: Tricia_2 on Tuesday 29 January 08 19:38 GMT (UK): Quote from: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 14:14 GMT (UK)
... They are very similar it was just the eyes that didn't seem to look right. ... Tina
That's what I was thinking when I was studying them.
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 19:44 GMT (UK): I suppose in the later photo he looks like he is squinting a bit because of the sun. That could account for it. :-\
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: Steve Ley on Tuesday 29 January 08 19:51 GMT (UK): To me the eye sockets and eye brows and just not the same, me and the OH don't think it is the same person. Sorry :(
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 29 January 08 20:55 GMT (UK): No need to apologise. 8) I am grateful for all opinions. There must be a way of finding out for sure. Some people do this for a living. What would they be called? :-\
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: PrueM on Tuesday 29 January 08 21:01 GMT (UK): Forensic artists :)
But I think they mainly work for the police and would probably cost alot of money :-\
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: Steve Ley on Tuesday 29 January 08 21:03 GMT (UK): I have downloaded this software a while ago but haven't played with it a lot so cannot tell you how good it is but it does boast of face recognition technology

http://www.myheritage.com/family-tree-builder

It's a free download.
Here is a bit of blurb from the site
Quote
Use face recognition technology - annotate the faces you recognize using drag & drop… Then harness the knowledge of other users to identify unknown people and find more photos of your ancestors!
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Wednesday 30 January 08 08:34 GMT (UK): Once again thank you everyone for all your help.
Thats the unfortunate thing about genealogy. Just when you get excited over a new piece of info you find that it leads you into another brick wall. :'(
Thanks for the web site. ;D I had a go last night. Unfortunately it was inconclusive but I would definitely recommend it to others. I shall be on it later comparing all my other photos.
Tina
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: Emjaybee on Wednesday 30 January 08 10:41 GMT (UK): Here is the army picture looking forward.

I make no claims, just for fun.
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Wednesday 30 January 08 11:44 GMT (UK): Thats fantastic you lot are all so talented. 8)
I'm going to start comparing again. ::) ::) ::)
Cheers Tina :D
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: LoneyBones on Wednesday 30 January 08 12:20 GMT (UK): It's the hair cut Keith ;D
Otherwise, believe China's formula. They're the same man.
If you can imagine a skull, without eyebrows and ears to distract you, you can see not just similarity but exactitude.
Leonie.
PS. I'm not a forensic artist just an ordinary one. ;)
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Wednesday 30 January 08 12:53 GMT (UK): That photo has convinced me that is is the same man.
The head shape is the same and so are the chin and nose. The eyes are a little distracting but if they were squinting I think you would see the same face.
The ears, although appear lower down in the earlier photo, are also the same shape. Hooray ;D ;D ;D
One family mystery almost solved only another dozen to go.
I am sorry to keep repeating myself but thankyou all so much. :-*
Tina
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Friday 29 April 16 15:39 BST (UK): Yes, I'd go for it being the same chap -my training was partly in a very visual area, and the angles of various things look right.
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 29 April 16 15:59 BST (UK): Quote from: ThrelfallYorky on Friday 29 April 16 15:39 BST (UK)
Yes, I'd go for it being the same chap -my training was partly in a very visual area, and the angles of various things look right.

Wow...It took you 8 years to respond ThrelfallY ;D ;D ;D
Carol
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Saturday 30 April 16 15:25 BST (UK): 'Cos I only just fell over the post, somehow, and being dozy didn't look at the date! No sense of time, you see.....
It might have been on the bottom bar, that new feature, and caught my eye...
And then, the person would be a few years older by now, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: relatedtoturnips on Saturday 30 April 16 20:20 BST (UK): In my humble opinion, these are not the same two people. I get a different "vibe" from both of them.

Sorry :'(
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: tinav40 on Tuesday 03 May 16 17:05 BST (UK): Hi
This is a very old post and one I'd forgotten about ( haven't posted on here very much since then.)
Thanks for the input guys - it did turn out to be the same person after all. Opened up a whole new "can o worms".
Thanks again
Tina
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: barryd on Tuesday 17 May 16 04:22 BST (UK): People change as they get older but apparently ears do not change!

http://phys.org/news/2010-10-method-people-ears.html
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Tuesday 17 May 16 14:07 BST (UK): That's true - although they do continue to increase in size, apparently!
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: chinakay on Tuesday 17 May 16 16:49 BST (UK): The earlobe can elongate with age as it's like any saggy part of the body :) But the pinna, the cartilage bit at the top, doesn't change in shape or angle. Apparently ;D

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: How do I tell if 2 photos are the same person.
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Wednesday 18 May 16 14:10 BST (UK): Yes, that's what I meant

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