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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: mandyfahey on Friday 22 February 08 12:06 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone please help me. I have been researching the above names with the information that -
Agnes Wright born 1886 and married Richard Bell 1915 in Hawarden, (my husbands grandparents).
I thought that I had found her father who I believed to be Robert Wright. From her marriage certificate I find it is John Wright, general labourer. Robert had a brother named John, but he married another lady.The John who may now be Agnes faher was born Hawarden and married a lady called Liliah according to the 1891 census.
The witnesses on Agnes marriage cert were Alfred Bell (Richards brother) Ada Wright (possibly Agnes sister) and Bessie Catherall (her link is via Bell).
I would be grateful if anyone could shed some light on this. I don't want to spend anymore money on incorrect documents.
For more info please see the NORTHUMBERLAND BOARD- WRIGHT / LOGAN
Thank you in advance
Mandy :)
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Hello Mandy,
I'll see if I can see anything in Hawarden Parish registers when I go to the archives next week.
Paul
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Sorry
I though I'd replied to this - no marriage on North Wales BMD site. Agnes born 1883, I believe - registered Wrexham - again North Wales BMD.
http://www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/bmd_welcome.html
I noticed that Lillah was b. Derbyshire. Nothing there. I think Burton on Trent would be the RD for Milton/Melton/Repton and so far I haven't located a Lillah or variations on FreeBMD there.
Other thought - could she have been Lilian :-\
Gadget :-\
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Hi Paul and Gadget
Much appreciate the help.
Paul I look foward to any info you can find, if you have the time to get it.
Yes Gadget it could be Lilian, the info I have is a transcript copy of the marriage cert from Flintshire.
I was going to send for Agnes birth certificate.
The census info I have 1891 notes her birth c1883 with her father John Wright + mother Lillah (?Lillian)
1901 census states her birth year as 1886, her father on this as Robert Wright (obviously not her father acccording to the marriage cert). According to her marriage cert 1915 she was aged 29, making her birth year 1886,
I will go with the marriage cert age I think.
This has become very confusing as I thought I had a lot of info, well I have but it seems on the wrong Wright family.
Thanks again
Mandy :-\
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Hi Mandy - not confusing -
There were two Agnes Wrights
One born 1883 registered Wrexham RD (? daughter of John) and one born 1885 registered Hawarden (?Robert's daughter)
Check out the NW BMD site that I gave earlier.
Gadget :)
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Mandy....and all
Agnes' mothers name on 1891 census, and 1901 is definitely Lillah.
I have looked in all manner of way's for the past couple of hours for a marriage, with no Joy I am afraid..........
1891 census, Agnes and Ada are both at home with mum and dad. 1901 Ada is with her Wright grandparents . Dad is unemployed.....
Jeannie
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Hi Jeannie
Yes I agree it is Lillah* but I was suggesting that it could be Lilian or something else because so far, we can't find a marriage or a birth registration circa that time in Burton on Trent (RD for where she said she was born - Milton and Rapton on censuses).
There are quite a few Lillah/alternatives in Derby but not in Burton o T :(
Gadget
* also can be Lylah, Leila, Lila, etc.
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Hi All
Gadget
I think I have realised the error of my ways!!!
My husband told me that the Wrights were from Higher Kinnerton, Flintshire, so I naturally went with Robert Wright as Agnes father. it looks now that Agnes was a domestic servant in Higher Kinnerton and that John Wright is her father. I have spent this time going over and over the census and all info I have. Checked again and I think through the census (on ancestry) I have traced John Wright to 1871, it was between this time and returning around 1883 that he was not in Wales. He may have married Lillah in Derbyshire and they had their first child Agnes in Hawarden in 1883.
John Wrights father according to the census of 1841 was born and living in Flintshire, he appeared to move to Anglesey where he met appeared to meet Jane, later his wife.
Jane Jones (according to NWBMD site) married a John Wright in 1857, but this does not appear to tie with John Wright (junior)being born in 1852.
Thanks fo everyones help, Getting there slowly.
Mandy
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Hello Mandy.....
I have been looking at your problem for most of the day !!
I think that there is a very faint chance, that the name could be Zillah. There is a death of a Zillah wright registered 1919......
I honestly have a feeling, that Lillah may have been a nick name, so I suggest that getting the birth certificate of either Agnes or Ada, will be money well spent. It will really assist you in getting on with your research. On the 1881 census, there is a John Wright , of the correct age, married to a Ellen........
From my own experience, my own gran was difficult to trace. I knew her name was Sarah Hughes, had her death certificate, which showed she was born c1878, and from Liverpool, which was difficult enough, but on the 1881 and 1891 census, she was Sissy !! It took me two years to sort it.
We know that John's parents were John and Jane, because Ada is with them in 1901, I agree that Agnes was a servant at Higher Kinnerton.
I may be able to help you further with the Wrights. I have Parish registers for the Hawarden area, form 1697-1820.
Kind Regards
Jeannie
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Hi Again Mandy
John Wright , married Jane Jones in 1851. Registered December qtr / Anglesey / vol 27 page 665........
On The 1841 census John is at home with his mother Sarah and siblings.
His father was Joseph and mothers maiden name was Dickenson (according to the baptism of his brother William. Born 29th April 1818 baptised September 27th 1818)
Joseph was a ship wright.
Jeannie
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Dear Jeannie
I am so pleased with your info, I have been looking at census etc for most of today and the people you have come up with are the same as mine.
Except that I could not find Johns father Joseph, only got as far as the 1841 census and was about to give up for the day.
I will go ahead and try and get Agnes birth cert and hoefully will have the info about Lillah / Zilah. I traced John Wright (Junior) to be away from the family between census of 1871 and 1891, but he must have returned to Wales around 1882 / 6 as that is around the time when Agnes was born.
Many many thanks
Mandy
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Mandy....
Pleased to be able to help. Without this site, I think I would still be at my brickwall stage !
I do not know if it is of any relevence, but on the 1891 census, John states he is a railway plate layer. On the 1880 United States census , there is a John Wright , born Wales of about the correct age, working for a rail road company.
Regards
Jeannie
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Hi Jeannie
I may be having romantic notions here, but I am thinking that as no one has found a marriage for John and Lillah (Zilah). Although she was born in Derbyshire, could her family have moved to USA, she met John there and they married there? Coming back to Wales and then having the children?
This may all be making some sense at last.
My husband thought it really hilarious that all the time I spent on the internet etc looking at this and building up a lovely history to find I as researching the wrong Wright family ;D :)
I don't have access to the USA files.
Thanks again
Mandy
Mandy
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Jeannie
I forgot to ask, where in USA?
Thanks
Mandy
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Mandy
Free access to 1880 USA census, on www.familysearch.org
I just entered his name, year of birth and Wales as place of birth.....
You are not alone, going down the wrong path. I traced the man I thought to be my grand father and his family back to the early 1800's . Then I approached some one on GenesReunited, with the same name and place of birth , to be told it was HIS great grandfather . As My grandad stated he was a batchelor when he married gran. I started all over again . The up shot of it is, I had the right man, but he never married the first "wife "
Jeannie
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Thanks
I will give it a try.
Mandy
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Mandy......
Not sure BUT
Have found a Lillah Dakin , born 1853 , father Peter, mother Emily on the 1861 census, born Findern, Derbyshire (couple of miles from Repton/Milton
On the 1871 census, she is transcribed as Zillah , and is a 18 year old servant , at Findern , to the Edge family.........
Must sort my husband's tea !! And then I will search some more
Jeannie
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Hi Jeannie
many thanks, sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I have looked on NWBMD site and got the info to get Agnes birth cert and what may be Johns birth cert .
Hopefully send off for them this week.
Kind regards
Mandy
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Hi Jeannie
many thanks, sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I have looked on NWBMD site and got the info to get Agnes birth cert and what may be Johns birth cert .
Hopefully send off for them this week.
Kind regards
Mandy
If you hang on for a day or two before you send for any certificates I'll have a look in the Parish registers.
Paul
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Hi Paul
many thanks, I appreciate your help. I will hold off.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards
Mandy
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Hello Mandy. Hawarden baptism.
Born. July 8. Baptised, Aug 6 1885. Agnes D/O John & Ellen(Jones) Wright.
abode, Aston. Fathers Occ, Labourer.
No sign of Ada. :(
Could be the family Jeannie found on the 1881 in Bunkers Hill, Mold.
There is a Civil marriage between a John Wright and Ellen Jones in Chester June Q 1877 ROC/15/23..
Did Ellen die and could Lilah(Zillah) be Johns second wife :-\?
Paul
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Now that's a turn up for the books, Paul :o
I think I recall seeing Ada on the NW BMD in 1886 - I'll go check :)
Gadget
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Agnes is on in 1885 - Hawarden (Haw/32/47) and Ada is 1886 (Haw/33/53)
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There's a death for an Ellen Wright - 1887, Hawarden (HAW/21/79)
Well done - so we were looking for a marriage a wee bit earlier than it was.
Gadget
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Dear Paul and Gadget
Sorry for the delayed response, just home from work.
Thanks again. It looks like Lilah (?) coud have been a second wife of John. I have also tried to check for a marriage on NWBMD but not one for Lilah and John. Could they have not been married??
I found an Ada Wright birth on NWBMD site for 1886.
I also found Agnes and Ada on censuses. In 1901 as Jeannie had found Ada was living with her grandparents John and Jane. Also in 1901 John and Lilah are living together.
I need to look closer at the censuses.
Thanks again
Mandy
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Hi Mandy,
Do you know who Ada married?
Paul.
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Hi Paul
I found a marriage on NWBMD site for Ada Wright and James W Logan in Pentrobin 1919.
But I do not know anything else.
Regards
Mandy
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Hi Mandy. Marriage St John the Baptist. Pentrobin. Oct 20 1919.
James Walter Logan. 34. bachelor. Motor driver. abode, 14 Back? Parkfield
Rd, Toxteth, Liverpool. Father, James(deceased). Occ, Chemist.
Ada Wright. 33. Spinster. Gate House, Bannel. Father, John. Occ, Labourer
Witnesses. Walter Royen? and Ada Davies.
Gadget has opened up a can of worms(in the best possible way) with the the death she found of Ellen Wright in 1887.
Pentrobin burial. Oct 22 1887. Ellen Wright. Bennetts Cottages, Hawarden.
Age 33 years.
Monumental Inscriptions. Grave No 175.
In loving memory of Thomas Jones. Pen-y Fordd died March 12 1888 age 79. (One line Illegable). Also Eliza Wife of the above. Died Oct 4 1902. age 85 years. Also ELLEN WRIGHT Daughter of the above. Died Oct 19 1887 age 33 years. Also Hannah Daughter of the above.. Died Feb 7 1895 age 33 years.
Burials Pentrobin.
Mary Jane Wright. Bannel. May 9 1912. age 89 years.
John Wright. Bannel. July 17 1907. age 86 years.
Grave No 184 M I
In loving memory of John Wright of Bannel who Died July 14 1907. age 86 years.
Also Jane Wright his Wife who Died May 5 1912 age 89 years.
In hope of joyful resurrection.
And what do you make of this :P?
Burial Pentrobin.
ZILLA WRIGHT. White Well, Bannet, Pentrobin. March 10 1919. age 73 years :o :-\
Grave No 205.
At rest Catherine Wright youngest daughter of John and Jane Wright.
Zillah Wright Wife of John Wright. Bannel. Who Died Mach 6 1919. age 73 years ???
I'm sure there would be only one Zillah Wright in Hawarden, it must be her
Do some Ladies Knock a year or two of their ages :-[?
Paul.
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Zillah Wright Wife of John Wright. Bannel. Who Died Mach 6 1919. age 73 years Huh
I'm sure there would be only one Zillah Wright in Hawarden, it must be her
Do some Ladies Knock a year or two of their ages
Some do. I add a few thousand on to mine ;D
This is all very interesting. I shall think on it.
First thought - John wasn't buried with Ellen - anything on John, Paul?
Gadget
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Paul and Gadget
You are stars.
On Agnes and Richards marriage cert it states Agnes residence at White Well Bannel, although I know that she was working as a servant in Higher Kinnerton.
That ties in nicely with Zillah.
As for taking a few years off our ages- absolutely.
Thank you once again. I thought this was going to take forever, as is with my husbands Fahy side of the family- Irish records area nightmare, though a friend of the family has been very helpful.
Kind regards
Mandy
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Hi Mandy and All
"Our" Zillah was one Zillah Bladon, born as stated, Milton / Repton . On 1851 census living there with a aunt (Zillah Chadbourne ) and is back with mum and dad in later census (Will post if info required )
Marriage
John Wright/ Zillah Bladon / Sept qtr 1888 / Oswestry /vol 6a page 1097
Isn't it super , when it all comes together ?
Regards
JeannieR
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That's super Jeanie ;D
So Agnes was the daughter of Ellen and John but Zillah brought her up :)
It's so nice when we can all work together on these problems - more the merrier, I say ;D
Gadget
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1915 Electoral Register.
John Wright. White Well, Bannel. Dwelling House. Bannel.
No Sign of Zillah :(
Paul.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
Paul
It was an electoral roll
Women were enfranchised 80 years ago, on February 6, 1918. The Representation of the People Act gave the vote to women over 30 who "occupied premises of a yearly value of not less than £5".
But it was not until 1928 that the voting age for women was lowered to 21 in line with men.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/53819.stm
Gadget
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Dear everyone,
sorry for the delay, been away for a couple of days.
great news.
Jeannie- I have printed off the censes from Ancestry (1841- 1871). all good info and will apply it to my tree on Ancestry.
it appears from the census 1851 that although Zillah is living with her aunt, there is a Joseph and Sarah Bladon also living with the aunt, but they are aged 42 and 40, could it be that they are her parents and that this aunt is really a great aunt as she is also noted as the aunt of Joseph and his wife Sarah?
Thanks again everyone.
Mandy
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Hi Mandy
I see that we don't seem to have got much on Ellen Jones, Agnes's mother - or have I missed it?
We do have this from Paul:
Gadget has opened up a can of worms(in the best possible way) with the the death she found of Ellen Wright in 1887.
Pentrobin burial. Oct 22 1887. Ellen Wright. Bennetts Cottages, Hawarden.
Age 33 years.
Monumental Inscriptions. Grave No 175.
In loving memory of Thomas Jones. Pen-y Fordd died March 12 1888 age 79. (One line Illegable). Also Eliza Wife of the above. Died Oct 4 1902. age 85 years. Also ELLEN WRIGHT Daughter of the above. Died Oct 19 1887 age 33 years. Also Hannah Daughter of the above.. Died Feb 7 1895 age 33 years.
Do you want more details of this family?
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
You are right I do not have an awful lot on this family, but Pauls post on 26th Feb had given me some info to go along with. I must admit I haven't followed it up as yet as I have been snowed under with work and being away for a couple of days.
Any info would be gratefully recieved.
I have also posted on the area offering certificates. I have a marriage certificate for Robert Wright and Mary Thomas(1883) and a birth certificate for Robert Wright 1860 both of Hawarden. I got these in the beleif I had followed the correct path, so if they can be of any help to anyone I will gladly e-mail them to them.
If you can access ancestry.com and can see my tree - Fahey / Jennings you can have a look at the info so far, much of it with the help of you all on this site. :)
Kind regards
Mandy
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This looks like the family in 1871
Penymynydd, Hope
RG10/3737 Folio 34 Page 19
Thomas Jones, 61, labourer in ? works, b. Hawarden
Eliza, 56, labourer's wife b. Dodleston?
Hannah, 9, scholar, b. Cheshire, Chester
Ellen is missing. I'll have a look on the 1861 but quite a lot of that census is missing for our area.
Gadget
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and this looks like then in 1861:
113 Francis St, Chester
RG9/2626 Folio 112 Page 19
Thomas Jones, 57, Carter, b. Flintshire, Saltney
Eliza, 46, b. Flintshire, Kingston
Richard, 12, b. Chester
Ellen, 7, b. Chester
Gadget :)