RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: derekchesh on Thursday 28 February 08 11:20 GMT (UK)
-
My grandmother Florence (Maud) Perkins first appears on the 1901 census at Walthamstow which records:
Florence Perkins 11 born Bristol
Samuel Perkins 54 born Somerset –occupation “Timberman”
Susan Perkins 45 born Lincoln – although I have a suspicion it could have been
the Bath Union Workhouse at Lyncombe
After two years searching, I cannot find any of them for certain on earlier censuses or Registration. I have their death certificates and Florrie’s marriage certificate (and I think - therefore they were!)
There’s a Samuel of Stoke Lane who married Sarah Rex in Wells 1869 and then Emma Warren in 1881 but I believe he died in Barton Regis Dec 1881. I cannot find a marriage anywhere, so I followed the life of Susan Perkins from the Workhouse in 1843 to Hanover Square in 1891 which led to the birth nearby of a Florence Maud Perkins to a Walter Perkins and Eliza Jane Rolfe who both died (I think) within a couple of years. Apart from the coincidence of name and location, I cannot connect them.
I need some fresh eyes – and brains - on this please.
-
16 years on and still searching. HOWEVER I've been searching for the wrong names. DNA links have shown my gt granddad was born Samuel Jukes in 1856 at North Cheriton. He is on the 1891 census in south wales with wife Susan and my grandma Florence. He got into trouble with the law and they started using the name "Perkins" - appearing on the 1901 census in Walthamstow before moving to Southampton about 1903/4 to be near to brother Joseph. Susan's place of birth is recorded as "Lincoln" in 1901 & 1911 but "Somerset" in 1891 so it is more likely that it was "Lyncombe".
Whether Susan's maiden name was Perkins, I don't know. I still can't find a likely marriage, nor a birth registration for Florence Maud born 26th July 1889 according to the 1939 register.
-
He is on the 1891 census in south wales with wife Susan and my grandma Florence.
Just want to confirm this is the earliest sighting you have of the family.
1891 - Is it the Jukes family living at Fairford Street, Cadoxton Juxta Barry, Cardiff?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:418K-7W2
-
In case Samuel and Susan didn't marry, have you checked for a birth/baptism circa 1889 for daughter Florence under a MMN of Perkins?
-
Yes - that is the family. I think he was in the Glamorgan Workhouse in 1886.
-
Sorry, can you reconfirm where the Jukes/Perkins family are in 1901 and 1911.
-
Re searching for MMN - where can I do this in 1889 without her registered name?
-
See my reply #5 above. Where are they in 1901 and 1911? What is Florence's birthplace, according to census records?
-
Samuel, Susan and Florence are in Hazelwood Rd Walthamstow in 1901. They moved to Southampton early 1900's so by 1911, Samuel has died (1907), Florence is married to my granddad Charles Willoughby, and Susan (Perkins) is living with them.
-
So, I'm seeing Florence's birthplace is Bristol for census records 1901 to 1921.
To start, I'd look for any Florence Maud [unknown] births c1889 in Bristol.
We don't know what Susan's maiden is. As such, Florence Maud's birth reg will need scrutiny.
Possibilities -
1889 - Florence Maud Calway (MMN Calway)
1890 - Florence Maud Maby (MMN Maby)
Check also for baptisms in Wales from 1889 to c1901.
-
My eye was also caught by Florence Maud Calway as her birth was registered in Q4 1889, so not far off the July dob, but I think she died in 1890
-
Susan's place of birth is recorded as "Lincoln" in 1901 & 1911 but "Somerset" in 1891 so it is more likely that it was "Lyncombe".
1901 census has Susan's birthplace as Lincolsnhire
1911 to 1921 census records - her birthplace as Boston, Lincolnshire.
Her birth years on the above are quite varied. 1856 to 1862.
Also, the 1891 burglary report for Samuel Jukes gives his age as 44 (born 1847).
There's a 1907 death for a Samuel Perkins in Southampton (born 1843).
Samuel's age seems to vary on census records, too.
-
I think he was in the Glamorgan Workhouse in 1886.
What is your record source for this?
-
DNA links have shown my gt granddad was born Samuel Jukes in 1856 at North Cheriton.
He is on the 1891 census in south wales with wife Susan and my grandma Florence.
He got into trouble with the law and they started using the name "Perkins"
Is this his baptism? Transcribed as Jarkes
Samuel Baptism 21 Dec 1856 North Cheriton, Somerset
Father Henry, labourer Mother Jane
Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1914
Samuel on 1861, 1871 & 1881 census in Somerset with parents and siblings, mother Jane a widow 1881, his occ general lab 1871/1881
I think he was in the Glamorgan Workhouse in 1886.
What is your record source for this?
Is this him?
Name of pauper Number of Days 27
Samuel Jukes
Residence Date 1886
Residence Place Glamorgan, Wales
Residence Poor Law Union Cardiff
Number of days 25
Samuel Jukes
Residence Date 1885-1888
Residence Place Glamorgan, Wales
Residence Poor Law Union Cardiff
Glamorgan, Wales, Workhouse Registers, 1850-1920
1911 census Susan Perkins widow (mother) crossed through in red
4 children born 3 died 1 living also married 34 in brackets above (32) :-\
So who are the other three children born to Susan ???
-
DNA links have shown my gt granddad was born Samuel Jukes in 1856 at North Cheriton.
Can you elaborate on this a bit more please? Is it a solid DNA match?
The reason I ask is because Samuel's age in the 1891 newspaper report is 44.
And his age in the 1901 census is 54. Making his birth year 1847. Also, both census reports give his birthplace as simply "Somerset".
If he's not the North Cheriton fellow (born 1856) who is he then? Could Jukes be another name he was going by circa 1886 to 1891 in Wales?
-
Re DNA links: I have a second cousin and six 3rd cousins from Samuel's siblings. Plus eleven 4th cousins from his mother's side.
Re Samuel's DoB, Susan's age and his were transposed on the 1901 census. He was invalided out of the army in 1876 with heart problems from rheumatic fever - via Netley Hospital - and died from it in 1907. I don't think he was ever fit enough to work.
Re "Perkins": this may have been his "wife's" name . I have looked for 10 years off and on for all Florences born in somerset and South Wales and three other children who died but can't link them together.
Thanks for trying.
-
My other problem with them is that they were not very good at spelling, arithmetic or geography. People do not automatically know when or where they were born - they can only repeat what they were told , or even what they thought they heard. Hence Lincoln and Lyncombe.
If Susan had been married for 32 or 34 years on the 1911 census, it is likely she had been married before living with Samuel - would explain things if they didn't get married. If Samuel was an army pensioner, would a wife and child AFTER his discharge, be recorded on pension records?