RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: griphynne on Thursday 06 March 08 01:53 GMT (UK)
-
I'm looking for information about Anne Conant Fluellen (or Fluelling), born 1830 in St. Ives, Cornwall. All I know about her was that she was a dressmaker and she was married in 1850 to John Drew, a blacksmith of Devon. They had five children: John, Mary Ann, Elizabeth, Alice, and Laura.
Any information would be much appreciated.
-
Were they married in Devon or elsewhere
Where and when were the children born?
Birthplaces and birthyears are very important when looking for census info
Do you have the family on any census?
-
Hi griphynne,
Do you know anything else about her? The name seems extremely scarce in Cornwall. Only one person with a name like this in Cornwall in 1841 and only a few in Devon. Only 5 on IGI for Cornwall and 39 in Devon. I see the marriage. It may pay to purchase the certificate to get a fathers name
John DREW = Anne Conant FLEULLING Honiton Sep 1848 10 189
Cheers Kris :D
-
OK Thought I would try for some census entries
1851 Census
HO107/1864 Folio 291 Page 2
Fades
Sidbury
Devon
MACER Henry Head 27 Mar b Luppit Devon Poultry and Butter Dealer
MACER Hannah Sister 23 Unm B Charmouth Devon Lace Maker
DREW John Lodger 25 Mar b Northleigh Blacksmith
DREW Ann Lodger 22 Mar b Plymouth
DREW Henry Son 2 b Sidmouth
1861 Census
RG9/1375 Folio 44 Pag: 8
Blacksmith Shop
Northleigh
Devon
DREW John Head 35 Mar b Northleigh Devon Smith
DREW Anne Wife 31 Mar b Craft hall Cornwall
DREW Henry Son 12 b Sidmouth Devon
DREW Elizabeth Ann Dau 8 b Sidbury Devon Lace Maker
DREW Mary Dau 6 b Ottery St Mary Devon Scholar
DREW John Son 3 b Northleigh Devon
DREW Betsy Jane Dau 1 b Northleigh Devon
Cheers Kris :D
-
Hi again griphynne,
Thought I would try a bit more and have had no joy in 1871 and 1881. Are they still in England at this time? I was hoping to get a little more idea of her place of birth. Unfortunately I just don't see them again :'(
We have Plymouth and Craft hall in the two entries I located. I have never heard of Craft hall Cornwall. What I have found is Crafthole Village on the Rame Peninsula. (Sheviock, Torpoint area) This is not an area I know anything at all about. I did locate it in 1841 census and could find no residents with a name anything like this. She seems young so it is probably not a second marriage. On checking maps Crafthole is very close to Plymouth. Across the river of course but they seem to be only 8 miles or so apart but nowhere at all near St Ives. Where did the place of birth of St Ives come from? St Ives is at the opposite end of Cornwall.............Kris :D
-
There is a family in East Stonehouse Devon in 1841
HO107/276/8 Folio 10 Page 14
Adelaide Place
East Stonhouse
FLUELLING Henry 50 Y Ind
FLUELLING Elizabeth 40 Y
FLUELLING Eliza 15 Y
FLUELLING Jane 1 Y
I had to take a closer look at this family due to the rarity of the name.
Henry FLUELLEN baptised 17 Mar 1788 Saint Thomas The Apostle Exeter parents Henry and Mary
there is a marriage Henry FLUELLIN to Susanna WOODLEY 10 Jan 1816 St Sidwell Exeter
Now I see baptised to Henry and Susanna we have:
James FLUALLING 21 Jan 1823 Scilly Isles
Eliza FLUALLING baptised 30 Sep 1824 Scilly Isles
Betsey Pruett FLUELLING 1 June 1828 Paul Cornwall
(The girl Betsy is in Sheviock in 1841 too.) Now Paul is also at the opposite end of Cornwall, as are Scilly Isles - certainly a lot closer to St Ives than the Rame Peninsula. :-\
It looks like Elizabeth in the census above was a second wife married in 1838 Stoke Damerel so it appears Henry got around a bit.
Although I haven't found a baptism I have to wonder if Henry and Susanna are the parents of your Ann..........Kris :D
-
Hi both
I have checked St Ives baptisms transcript 1730 to 1840 and no one with surname Fluellen or variants appears.
Certainly not a name I recognise as being from St Ives.
Barbara
-
Many thanks to all of you for your extraordinary efforts. I am continually amazed by the help offered on this wonderful forum.
The information I have on Anne Conant Fluelling (Fluellen) is from a copy of a family tree done by a long-lost relative. According to that, the information came from a marriage certificate (which is now, I presume, lost) issued in Honiton, Devon. But the date of the marriage is 15 August 1850. The marriage Kris mentioned surely must be my John and Anne, but I am befuddled by the discrepancy in the date. How would I go about getting a copy of the certificate?
The only other information provided in my papers is that Anne's father, Henry Fluelling, was with the Coast Guard. Might explain why he "got around". :D
Again, thank you all.
-
Hi griphynne
You can order the marriage certificate on line from
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
You will need to register to use the site and remember to quote the GRO reference supplied by Kris ie Honiton (Reg District) Vol 10 Page 189.
The certificate will cost £7.
Do ask if you have any problems ordering.
Barbara :)
-
Could the name be an approximation of the Welsh name Llewellyn?
-
Hi griphynne.
Glad to help. Now Henry being with the Coastguard service certainly explains his movements. :D
Seems his descendent's were also with the service. Unfortunately Henry is only listed with his second wife.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Coastguards/F-G.html
Strange that the date you have been given is two years out - Sep 1/4 and your 15 Aug makes me think the date you have been given is possibly exactly 2 years out. Good luck with the certificate. Certainly appears that although no baptism can be found for Ann - the family I have found is her family. ;D
Ospey mentions the name Llewellyn. Now that thought crossed my mind yesterday given the rarity of this name. Could this Welsh name have been bastardised at some earlier time when a Welsh Speaking man came across, and his accent was hard to understand.
Look forward to hearing how you get on..............Kris :D
-
Could the name be an approximation of the Welsh name Llewellyn?
it does sound the same ( i'm sur a welsh person will say differently)
i found a few early FLUELIN / FLUELLIN / FLUELLINE / FLUELLING / FLUELLYN
nothing to connect them all though
-
Thank you so much, Kris, Barbara, and all.
You even found Coast Guard records! I had a look and even though it's an unusual name, there's no fewer than THREE Henry Fluellens and TWO of them have wives named Elizabeth. Go figure.
I definitely will send for the marriage certificate and will post what I find therein.
I've always had the understanding that Fluellen and its variants were anglicised versions of the Welsh name LLewellyn. The only time I heard the name in anything other than my own family connections is in Shakespeare (think it's Henry V) and that character was a Welshman.
Short question: the 1841 census has "Ind" next to Henry's name. What does that mean?
-
Ind of independent means (1841 was not terribly definitive. He had an income derived from some unknown source. Pension could qualify) ;)
I am betting the 2nd Henry (b Scilly Isles) was his son and the third a grandson ;D
All the Best...............Kris :D
-
Henry's second wife was from this area of the Rame Peninsula
1851 Census
HO107/1880 Folio 289 Page 35
East Stonehouse
Devon
FLUELLEN Henry Head 64 Mar b Exeter Coastguard Pensioner
FLUELLEN Elizabeth Wife 49 Mar b Portwrinkle Cornwall
FLUELLEN Jane Dau 11 b Swanage Dorset Scholar
Daughter Eliza is a servant is East Stonehouse
HO107/1880 Folio 182 Page 67
24 Edgecumbe Street
East Stonehouse
Home of Charles Chapple 75 widow Archetect, Engineer and Surveyor and his two daughters
FLUELLEN Eliza Servant 25 Unm b Scilly Isles
Kris :D
-
The son Henry is in Hampshire in 1851, wife also from Rame
HO107/1666 Folio 354 Page 30
Keyhaven
Milford
Hampshire
FUELLING Henry Head 29 Mar b St Mary Scilly Cornwall Boatman Coastguard
FUELLING Elizabeth Wife 29 Mar b Torpoint
FUELLING Maria G Dau 2 b Keyhaven
FUELLING James J Son 9 Months b Keyhaven
Kris :D
-
aha wonder if this is Ann in 1841 ;)
HO107/234/1
Highertown Cottage
East Anstey
Devon
HERNIMAN Henry 70 Y Ag Lab
HERNIMAN Jane 65 Y
HERNIMAN Sarah 15 Y
FLELLIAN Ann 15 Y Ind
I can't find a listing for young Henry in 1841.
Kris :D
-
May be worth contacting this person griphynne ;)
He may know more about Anne
http://morrab.tripod.com/some_fluellen_customs_men.htm
Kris :D
-
Kris, you're a gem!
Thank you!
I will drop him a line and if I get any response, I'll let you know.
Cheers, :)
griphynne
-
Hi everyone
Found this on National archives;
Admiralty: Supplementary Records ADM 13/70/354
Folios: 354 - 355, James Lawrance Cavenaugh, then aged 30, married Betsy Prunetta [Fluellen] on 14 Oct 1854 at Antony, Cornwall (marriage recorded for potential Royal Navy widow's pension). . Folios: 354 - 355, James Lawrance Cavenaugh, then aged 30,
Date: 1854.
Admiralty: Royal Navy, Royal Marines, Coastguard and related services: Officers' and Ratings' Service Records (Series II) ADM 29/63/500
Original page number: 500 James FLUELLEN; Rating; Age on entry: [Not Given]; Dates served: [Not Given]; Date and Type of Application: Whitehall 11 September 1861. For the additional following details Born: 22 December 1822, St Marys, Scilly, Cornwall, Date range: 1860 - 1861
deb :)
-
hi ,
Not sure if he is one of yours:
Online Document ADM 188/32
Name Fluellen Henry 56518 Plymouth, Devon . Name Fluellen Henry 56518 Plymouth, Devon
Date: 1843.
deb
-
Good one Deb. ;D
Sure they are all same family. Both the father Henry and the son Henry were in Plymouth by that time.........Kris :D
-
hi Kris ;D
There are a few more on NA ... they may be related to this family except they are for later years ...seems they all may have stayed in the coastguard/navy business .
I wonder if I should post them or maybe we need to follow the subsequent censuses to find children's names etc
deb :)
-
Don't want to confuse the issue here Deb. I think it is probably best not to carry on with possible siblings lines too much at the present. We are currently trying to prove who Anne was. ;)
Hopefully griphynne will have news soon from cert and this gentleman he is contacting. I am sure this gentleman will have much information on the coastguard side of it. Presently we think Anne is Henry and Susanna's daughter but we have no proof of this. Here's hoping. ;D
Kris :D
-
hi
I notice that Ann's middle name is Conant.... I have found this marriage ... It has to be relevant somewhere along the way;
IGI
SAMUEL FLUELLEN = ANN CONANT 08 APR 1822 Saint Mary Major, Exeter, Devon
Also , Ann Conant drew nee Fluellen sometimes states that she was born in Devon...
deb :)
-
Ooh now that is interesting isn't it Deb. Perhaps we have been on the wrong track with Henry. griphynne doens't have the cert yet to my knowledge - only info from it, but with wrong year given and stating Henry was her father. I saw Samuel in Devon and figured he was connected, but was concentrating on Henry and hadn't thought to follow up on him. Good One. I kept wondering where this name Conant came from. Rock on Cert ;D - perhaps we are on the wrong track here with Henry. I kept hoping to see a Conant in the line somewhere. Very interesting indeed...........Kris :D
-
Hi Kris
Where did you see Samuel ? I think I spotted one but he was a shoemaker, I think :-\
the discrepancy on the marriage dates makes me think that it belonged to another Fluellen family member who had the coastguard father ...
I have just checked Sept q marriages for Honiton in 1850, neither the name Drew or Fluellen (or any variation) come up ... I will have a look at the complete index , maybe it has not yet been transcribed.
deb :)
-
Not sure Deb - its only 7am, I haven't got the cobwebs out yet. ::)
I am sure I noticed him on IGI though didn't follow up on him. I have a feeling I found him in Census but perhaps that was another possible brother of Henry. Will have to go look about :-\
Hopefully griphynne has ordered the cert. It really is the only thing that can tell us - besides a baptism we haven't been able to find. Perhaps a foolish assumption that it was just the date which was 2 years out in the information passed on from old research. Sounds suspiciously like father could be wrong too........Kris :D
-
Blimey DEB.....You Treasure ;D ;D ;D
It is her!!! I would put money on it. Her father wasn't Henry the Coastguard at all.
HO107/208/9 Folio 17 Page 29
Marsh
Sidmouth
FLEWELLIN Samuel 50 Y Gardener
FLEWELLIN Ann 55 Y
FLEWELLIN Ann C 15 Y Laundress
Kris :D
-
WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ;D
BRILLIANT !!
added ... And Ann is a LAUNDRESS , which was stated in the first post !!!! :D
added ... And Ann has a "C" in her name ..... double woohooooo ;D ;D :o
-
Hi Kris ..
wonder if this is her mum;
ANN JENNINGS CONANT
01 SEP 1790 Withycombe Raleigh, Devon
parents:Robert Conant and Mary
IGI extracted
deb
-
Ooh I wish griphynne was online. Where did you see Laundress? - I see dressmaker. ??? Hope griphynne isn't too disappointed to loose a coastguard. No doubt in my mind now this is her. With the marriage you found and then this census, even with the middle initial C included - She was elusive but when you spotted that marriage it made finding her possible. ;D It just has to be her. I was certainly sidetracked by Henry. Certainly goes to show we should never ever assume.........Kris ;D
-
oops sorry it was dressmaker ... ::)
found this christening too:
SAMUEL FLEWELLEN
28 FEB 1790 Saint Thomas The Apostle, Exeter
parents~HENRY FLEWELLEN and MARY
will check and see if Henry the coastguard is one of their children ...note spelling of the surname ! ;D
-
Hi again
It seems as though Henry and Samuel may have been brothers ...These are chidren of Henry Flewellen and Mary ;
MARY FLEWELLEN: 23 APR 1786 Saint Thomas The Apostle, Exeter
HENRY FLUELLEN: 17 MAR 1788 "
CHARLOTTE FLUELLEN : 25 DEC 1791 " died : 04 DEC 1792
SAMUEL FLEWELLEN: 28 FEB 1790 "
JOANNA FLEWELLIN : 20 JUN 1784 "
all extracted IGI
deb
-
Hi again
This may well be Ann Conant m/o Ann Conant Fluellen, her parents; so ..Ann Conant Fluellen's grandparents;
ROBERT CONANT = MARY BARTLETT
10 AUG 1779 Sidmouth, Devon
Note Samuel, Ann and Ann Conant Flewellin were living in Sidmouth in 1841
deb :)ANN JENNINGS CONANT
01 SEP 1790 Withycombe Raleigh, Devon
parents:Robert Conant and Mary
IGI extracted
-
Most hearty thanks to both of you, Kris and Deb, for your diligence on my behalf! It's incredibly exciting to see so many possibilities in an area I had all but given up on. I've not sent for a marriage cert yet because I'm not entirely sure I'm on the right track, but I did contact Tony Clark on the website that Kris provided. Still waiting for a reply.
I am sure all the Fluellens (and variant spellings) are connected somehow. But the Anne Conant Fluellen I am looking for was born around 1830 and was married to John Drew, a blacksmith, in 1850, so the 1822 marriage to Samuel doesn't look like the right one to me, unless I've got the birth year wrong and the marriage to John is a perhaps a second marriage?
John Drew and Anne Fluellen had a daughter, Mary Ann Drew in 1854 (who married Edward Benwell in 1874). If the Samuel = Anne 1822 marriage is my Anne, that would make her pretty long in the tooth when she had Mary Ann.
At this point, I'm as confused as I am excited. But thank you both, again. I really am so grateful for your efforts and your input.
~griphynne
-
Hi griphynne
;D the marriage of Samuel Fluellen to Ann Conant (in 1822)...we are assuming are the parents of your Ann Conant Fluellen (b 1830) who married John Drew the blacksmith ...hence her name Ann Conant Fluellen.
Hope I am making sense ... LOL
deb ;D
-
Could the name be an approximation of the Welsh name Llewellyn?
That's what I thought ~ and I have Welsh Llewellyns in my family.
There must have been a reasonable amount of movement between South Wales and the South West peninsula. If the family had migrated, then the name might have evolved.
-
Hi griphynne,
As Deb said, we now think the marriage she spotted is Ann Conant Fluellen's parent's marriage. Explains the middle name nicely. Note the census I posted - that does look like your Ann with her parents, doesn't it? If so she is a few years older than we were expecting. I had found Henry's siblings on IGI but hadn't followed up on them, since we thought Henry was her father. With what we had done I kept hoping to find a connection to Ann's middle name Conant, but didn't find it. Now we have a Marriage of Henry Fluellen's brother Samuel to Ann Conant and we find this couple in the census along with a daughter Ann C Flewellin. That marriage cert is a very important piece of the jigsaw and I feel it really is needed here - I do hope you go ahead and order it. In Oz at mo with conversion rates they are coming in at about $16. Not much at all for the certainty...........Kris :D
-
My head is spinning! I've requested the marriage certificate of John Drew and Anne Conant Fluellen, using the reference numbers provided. Don't know how long it will take to get it, but as soon as it arrives, I'll share what I find out.
Can't say "thank you" enough!! :D
-
The verdict is in! :D
Today I received the marriage certificate of John Drew (Blacksmith) and Anne Conant Fluelling (Dress Maker).
The name of John's father is William (a farmer) and Anne's father is listed as Henry Fluelling, Coast Guard.
:) :) :) :)
-
Well I'll be griphynne! :o
That certainly is not what i was expecting to hear given our most recent discoveries re brother Samuel. Did you hear back from the other researcher? Here's hoping he knows something of henry's other children........Kris :D
-
No, I've had no response from the website. A little disappointed. Wondering if maybe I should try again? Would hate to be seen as nagging or pushy.
The certificate does say that Anne's residence was Sidmouth, so now I'm wondering where Samuel Fluellen and Anne Conant fit into all this. There HAS to be a connection.
-
Hi
Well , I am shocked :o ;D I can't believe her dad was Henry, the coastguard and not Samuel, the gardener, especially since the 1841 census clearly states ANN C FLEWELLIN .... the 'C' being relevant!
1841
Marsh
Sidmouth
FLEWELLIN Samuel 50 Y Gardener
FLEWELLIN Ann 55 Y
FLEWELLIN Ann C 15 Y Laundress
another thought ...what if Samuel has died by the time of her marriege and she has put down HENRY , her granddad on marriage cert, (Samuel 's parents were HENRY and Mary)
:-\ :-\
deb
-
quite often illegitimate children were brought up as children of the grandparents, sibling to the unmarried mother especially if she was young
-
I'm wondering ...
1) It appears that Henry and Samuel were brothers,
2) Henry was married twice -- the first to Susannah Woodley and the second to Elizabeth Coombe
3) Henry and Susannah had at least four children but the last one that I can find (Betsey) was born in 1828. Supposedly, Anne was born in 1830. Susannah must have died sometime between 1830 and 1840 because by 1840 Henry was married to Elizabeth and their daughter, Jane, was born in that year.
Could it be possible that Susannah died in childbirth and brother Samuel (a gardener and tied to the land) took the youngest child to rear whilst Henry was away at sea? It would make sense that if Samuel and his wife "adopted" Henry's daughter, that she would would carry the adoptivie mother's name (i.e. Conant), would it not?
It's beginning to sound logical to me, so someone please tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here. ???
Or ... it's possible, given that Anne was reputedly born in St. Ives (perhaps only one of many "ports in the storm" for seaman Henry), that Susannah in Devon was not Anne's mother. However, the "fact" that Henry's youngest child, Betsey, was evidently born in Cornwall might suggest otherwise.
Whaddaya think?