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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: Omega on Tuesday 25 March 08 05:03 GMT (UK)
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The only 2 proven facts I have on Robert James Charles Underwood is the marriage certificate and death date.
I have Robert JC Underwood's death in Roma 14th January 1916 and on 31/7/1901 in Cunnamulla Robert James Charles Underwood married Bridelia (Bredelia) Madden (I have her birth 4/7/1880 Avadale Qld and her parents back to Ireland)
On the marriage cert Robert JC Underwood is 32 and his birthplace is Bendigo Victoria. This puts his birth year at 1869.
His parents are Robert Underwood and Elizabeth MacBroom and fathers occupation is listed as Farmer.
I am not having any luck in finding records
for Robert JC Underwood's birth
His father and mother's oregins
Also a death record for Bridelia (Bredelia) Underwood last living Eventide nursing home Brisbane Qld. Her son died 1961 and the family is sure she survived her son.
Can anyone help with these dates please?
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There is the following birth.....
Robert Charles Alexr UNDERDOWN born 1866 at
SHURST to Robert UNDERDOWN & Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Ref =4796
???
There are 3 more births to this couple.
No births to an Elizabeth MACBROOM and only 4 births in total to McBROOM.
......dee
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Hi there Omega
I found the following births on Victorian BDM
UNDERDOWN Robert Charles Alexr born 1866 Shurt Reg no 4796
UNDERDOWN Henry Emanuel born 1875 Stra Reg no 5819
Father: Robert Mother: Elizabeth Ann McBroom
UNDERDOWN Thomas David born 1857 Dunolly Reg no 11946
Father: Robert Mother: Elizabeth McBroom
There are several deaths in Queensland
for the children of Robert and Bredelia Underwood that you can
look up on this site www.justice.qld.gov.au although the deaths
are only recorded up until 1914.
Hope this is some help to you :)
Raylen
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Bingo dee!
You're way too quick for me...........again! ;D
Raylen
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;D :P 8)
......dee :D
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Thank you Dee and Raylen ;D
I have been given the birth for Underdown but the Robert Charles Alex isn't Robert James Charles and according to his marriage cert his age in 1901 was 32 which would make his birth year 1869 and a 3 year gap is not really close even if they registered a year late it would be 1867 and he would have put the age on the marriage info wouldn't he ??? this family is very confusing.. :D
You don't have any suggestions on Bridelia for me then?
Thank you for your very quick answers ladies I appreciate your help.
Deirdre
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Hi Omega,
This is a little odd isn't it? ???
Do you know if Robert James Charles had any siblings?
Where/when did his parents die? Maybe their death certificates would reveal more.
It might be a good idea to have this moved to the "Emigrants to Australia" board
'cause there are lots of very clever people there that will be able
to guide you in the right direction.
Raylen
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I will bow to your greater knowledge Raylen you may move me if you like :D
I don't know if they all moved up from Victoria to Queensland apparently to Cunnamulla, St George, Roma area. So the parents could have died in Victoria or Queensland. The inquest papers I have on Robert James Charles Underwood's accidental death in Roma state parents unknown so obviously Bridelia didn't know them so that leads me to think they were still in Victoria so deaths probably Victoria. oooh brain pain...lol Are there other families out there who don't know anything about their grandparents or mother and father-in-law?
Deirdre
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Deidre,
I've just tried to look for the deaths of your Robert James Charles Underwood's parents in Victoria.
I've been right through the Victorian deaths searching for any deaths with the father's name being MacBroom/McBroom. There are hardly any whatsoever, and definitely no Underwoods. The only one that showed up was Elizabeth Ann Underdown, father James McBroom. :-\
......dee
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I think we have found the family of Topsy from Uncle Tom's Cabin. They all just grewed...lol
Thank you Dee
And there is nothing on the death of Bridelia I suppose....she says holding her breath...lol
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Dee I was just thinking the father's name would be Broom as I think that is what she started out with. ???
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There is no death of a Robert Underwood in Victoria either that could possibly have been the father of Robert James Charles Underwood. :-\
If Bridelia died in Queensland and after 1961, there's no way we have of accessing those records. Only someone visiting Queensland records may be able to check microfiche to find that.
Do just keep in mind that people did change their names and sometimes what they had put down was not always completely true. Not saying that this was the case, but it does happen. :-\
......dee
P.S. I'll have a look for Broom.........
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You'll never guess what that search leads me straight back to ....the birth of a son Charles Alex to Robert Underdown and Elizabeth Ann Broom in Amherst in 1859!
Definitely no Broom/Underwood children! :-\
.....dee
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Hello there
I must add in her that I agree totally with Dee you cannot rely on ages given as being fact. The birth that Dee and Raylen found is quite probably his.
on the Brisbane grave finder I see A burial for Robert Charles Underwood and in the same grave is an ELLEN Underwood, have you seen this information Omega.
regards JEnn
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Sorry I meant to add
if you have checked the Roma Cemetery Records to see if Bredelia is buried at Roma with her husband.
regards Jenn
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Hi Jenn and Dee
Robert James Charles Underwood and a child Bridelia Underwood are buried at Roma Cemetery and according to the Roma Historical Society they are the only two in that grave.
Jenn, Robert William Clarence Underwood was cremated and is at Mt Thomson/Mt Gravatt crematorium and he is my husbands father. My husband is the Robert Charles Underwood in the family and believe me he is still alive...(altlhough some days...pmsl).
Dee would I have to go to the State Library to look up Bridelia's death then?
Dee is there no death in Vic for Robert Underdown either or Elizabeth Ann Underdown nee Broom/McBroom?
I was told and had forgotten that Robert Underwood and Elizabeth Broom entered Australia via Tasmania I have just found the email I recieved and this is the record.
In Tassie there were two convicts that were sent out from the U.K ( 1830s ) ...below.
72107 Underwood Robert Arr: 01 Aug 1835 Ship: Mangles Dept:21 Apr 1835 London
7673 Broom Elizabeth Arr: 03 Dec 1836 Ship: Westmoreland (1) Dept:12 Aug 1836 Woolwich
Not sure if this helps or not but thought I better let you know I had this. I am in such a mess with this family that my paperwork is a mess also, sorry.
Deirdre
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Hi All,
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=5
Elizabeth Broom applied to marry 2 different men [neither of whom Robert Underwood] before 1841.
Robert Underwood,[ free] applied to marry Ellen Ryan in 1853.
Reply #13 Jenn ELLEN
At Whitehills Cemetery [district of Bendigo] Sarah Underdown. Buried 1861.
Sue
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Here's the death of Elizabeth Underdown.....
Elzth Ann UNDERDOWN aged 91 died at Bton in 1916
Father = James Mcbroom & Mother = Elzth Ann UNKNOWN
Ref =8884
But I cannot find a death of a Robert Underdown. :-\
.....dee
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Deirdre, I also checked right through to see if there was the death of an Elizabeth with father given as Broom, but nothing there.
Dee would I have to go to the State Library to look up Bridelia's death then?
Deirdre
Hopefully Jenn or one of the Queensland Rootschatters can answer this question.
......dee
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Hi Sue
I think Robert Underdown and Elizabeth McBroom married in Victoria? But these are the parents (except as Underwood) that are on the marriage cert I have.
I am getting more confused... ::)
Thank you for that link I will look at it ... I have it bookmarked now.
Deirdre
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Dee Bton is that Brighton Victoria?
I wonder if she stayed in Victoria and Robert went with the boy/s to Queensland?
Like I said to Sue I am getting more and more confused with this family. ???
I wonder if an email to Cunnamulla FHS would help?
Will see what they have to say and will let you know.
Thank you all of you for all your help.
Deirdre
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Deidre.....
I would think Bton is Brighton but could not be sure......
There is no marriage for Robert Underdown and Elizabeth Broom/McBroom in Victoria....just births and deaths of children.
You certainly have a difficult family to sort.
IF....and it is if.....Elizabeth Broom/McBroom and Robert Underwood/UnderBroom moved across to Victoria from Tasmania ...and many ex-convicts did......maybe they didn't even marry....and that happened too.
Your Robert JC had a father Robert. Elizabeth Ann Broom/McBroom had a father James. That may or may not be an indicator.
Try and write down what you have as absolute fact....and a whole lot of "what ifs" .....it can help sometimes.......
.....dee
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Thank you Dee I have printed all this out so after I get home from volunteering at mainly music for the little kids tomorrow I will do what you suggest and do two columns one fact and one possible and see what I end up with. You have all worked very hard for me thank you very much it is greatly appreciated.
Deirdre
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Hi
As always with reservations, I direct you to
Worldconnect
where another researcher is looking at the UNDERDOWNS
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?surname=underdown&dplace=australia&start=41
The information on these contributor-based sites can be wildly inaccurate, but also of course accurate and very helpful.
There is nothing as good as a certificate you have seen yourself, but there may be some clues in this person's tree work to help sort the WOOD from the DOWNS.
Sue
[PS Looks as if South Australia may be in the picture too]
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It's got me intrigued, Deidre...I like a challenge.
Besides I have Underwoods....including Roberts ....in my tree! ;D ;D ;D
Sue....spot on....sometimes you have to collect all sorts of unlike stuff to make a break through.....
It's what I did with my Bauers! :D
......dee
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Oh cool Sue by all means lets add SA into the mix....pmslroflmao I may as well be insane as any other way :D :D :D
No just joking thank you for this link as well I will go look and like you say you never know.
Thank you
Deirdre
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;D ;D ;D
After I have had something to eat, I'll check SA records for you......
......dee
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Dee notice you have Churchills from Somerset as well my Churchills are from St George Bristol Gloucestershire.
This is making me so glad I broke tradition when our son came along. I refused to have two Roberts, Bobs, Robs, etc in the one house hold so he got the germanised Charles - Karl and the Robert as a second name. ;D
Ah yes Daylight Savings we don't know what that is like up here ;D ;D ;D Thanks Dee.
Deirdre
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some local libraries carry records for BDM's as you are not aware of when she died it might be difficult I see she is one the 1936 census so that does give you a time frame to work from. You say she was in the Eventide home in Brisbane is that fact or family lore. Perhaps you could try contacting them for any information that they might have.
regards Jenn
ps do you have her details from the electoral rolls if not just ask away
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no marriage in the Tasmanian indexs for Robert Underwood/down to Elizabeth Broom/MAcbroom etc
one marriage of interest
Robert UNDERWOOD aged 36 married Ellen RYAN aged 28
9/19/1853 HOBART
Reg 923/1853 RGD 37
no children showing for this couple
regards Jenn
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Jenn,
When I saw Robert's Tasmanian application to marry ELLEN, [reply #16] I did wonder whether they are the BRISBANE cemetery pair.
Is that what you are thinking?
Sue
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Hi Jenn yes have her in census 1936 thank you
My husband did visit Bridelia in Eventide so it is fact and we know she outlived her son who died in 1961 but none of the 3 kids - my husband his sister and brother can remember exactly when Bridelia died but it has to be in the 60s. I asked if they knew how old she might have been ... the answer I got .... oh really old. I tell you this family borders on disfunctional...pmsl ::)
Do you think Elizabeth may have been a common law wife? No way of proving this is there but it is definately Robert Underwood father and Elizabeth McBroom mother on Robert James Charles Underwood's marriage certificate.
Thank you Jenn
Deirdre
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Jenn,
When I saw Robert's Tasmanian application to marry ELLEN, [reply #16] I did wonder whether they are the BRISBANE cemetery pair.
Is that what you are thinking?
Sue
Sue they can't be the right parents as I have the marriage cert and it is definately Elizabeth McBroom mother.
I have to go see to dinner now myself so will look in later
Thank you
Deirdre
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Do you think she may have been a common law wife? No way of proving this is there but it is definately Robert Underwood father and Elizabeth McBroom mother on Robert James Charles Underwood's marriage certificate.
Hard to say but more than likely.....no one can seem to find a marriage.
Robert Charles Alexr UNDERDOWN born 1866 at
SHURST to Robert UNDERDOWN & Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Ref =4796
Perhaps you could purchase a copy of the birth certificate, you can down load it on line, will have when and where the parents married, there place of birth ages etc. . Costs 17.50 on line from Victoria's BDM
These are the years covered in the State Library and also check your local library they may carry the microforms
Births 1829 - 1919
deaths 1829 to 1964
marriages 1839 to 1939
You might have to spend some time going through the Courier Mail to locate Bredelia death's
Sue, yes I did wonder that but it would appear to hold no relevance to this grouping plus on a close loook they are not old enough to be the couple who married in TAZ ;D
Jenn
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I have checked out all the South Australian Underwoods and Underdowns....no sign of Robert's death I am afraid, under either name.
I had noticed that there were quite a lot of Underdowns in Victoria up to 1888....then they mostly disappeared. Now I know where they disappeared to! ;D ;D ;D
Good old South Australia! :D
.....dee
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Whether this helps Deidre or not, remains to be seen! But I have had a breakthrough on Robert Underdown and Elizabeth McBroom.....BISA entry about to be typed! :D :D :D :D
It looks like the Underdown family came to South Australia.....the sons all went to Victoria for the Gold rush....then they mostly came back!
.....dee
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Oh things are getting very interesting......now where the heck are the relevant entries re the births, deaths and the marriage!
It is looking more and more like there is a strong chance that Underdown became Underwood!
Here's BISA.....
UNDERDOWN Robert
Parents = Thos and Ann nee HARDING
Baptised 10th August 1823 Southleigh Devon England
died 13th August 1886 Bendigo Victoria
arrived departed Victoria
occupation = Ship's Cook, Goldminer, Farmer
residence = Adelaide
religion = C of E, Meth
married October 1852 in Adelaide SA to Elizabeth Ann nee McBROOM
parents = James and Elizabeth
born c1830 ARM Ireland
died 22nd August 1916 Brighton Victoria
arrived 1851 ASCENDANT
children = Hannah Elizabeth STRIBLEY, PITTERSON (1853-1918),
Robert James (1855-),
Thomas David (1857-),
Joshua George,
Mary Elizabeth Ann (1861-),
Sarah Jane (1863-),
Robert James Charles (1865-),
William Joshua George (1867-),
Henry Emanuel (1874-)
.....dee
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Good find dee! :)
Found this on the following web page. Seems to have lots of information.
It is a Madden family site but it does mention that Bridelia was married to Robert Underwood.
Bridelia Madden, born 04 Jul 1880 in Adavale, Queensland, Australia; died 07 Jul 1968 in Brighton, Queensland, Australia.
(Bridelia's sister is listed as having died in Eventide,Brighton,Queensland.)
freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~maddenps/MADDENNSWQLD.htm
Raylen
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Well BISA has that Robert Underdown married October 1852 in Adelaide SA to Elizabeth Ann nee McBROOM.
I have tried every way of searching I can....even just the two names of Robert and Elizabeth......and no marriage appears in SA records! >:(
There is a marriage in September 1852 for an Elizabeth McBroom....to a William Heard! No parents listed. Helpful that!
Will check if they had any children....wonder if it could be a mistranscription?
......dee
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That's strange dee.
I had a quick look for his death in 1886 in Bendigo.
Can't see that either :-\
Raylen
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There is a marriage in September 1852 for an Elizabeth McBroom....to a William Heard! No parents listed. Helpful that!
Will check if they had any children....wonder if it could be a mistranscription?
......dee
On Vic BDM
Anne Eliza HEARD born 1853 ADEL ??? ::)
Father - William Mother - Elizabeth McBroom
Raylen
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Yep...found her birth...the only one!
No other Mcbrooms at all men tioned in the SA births....either as the mother or the father.
The plot gets even murkier! ::)
.....dee
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OK Raylen....this is turning into an Aussie Scavenger Hunt.....
....can either of us find Robert Underdowns's death as quoted from BISA......
died 13th August 1886 Bendigo Victoria
......dee
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dee
Can I just ask you why a birth would be on Victorian records
when she was born in Adelaide?
Is it on the SA records too?
Raylen
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Here it is, Raylen.....
Ann Eliza HEARD born 20 Aug 1853 at Port Adelaide
Father= William HEARD
Mother = Elizabeth MCBROOM
Ref = Ade 4/209
??? ??? ???
And one of the children listed for the Underdowns is [b]Hannah Elizabeth STRIBLEY, PITTERSON (1853-1918[/b]
......dee
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A big well done to U2 Dee and Raylen
but are we any closer
Dee the information from the BISA can be a little inaccurate some times?
I wonder Brighton, Victoria? could be Brighton SA or Sydney or QLD?
perhaps a copy of his birth certificate might be the only factual way to discover more?
But well done
jenn
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Found Robert Underdown's death in 1886! :D :D :D
Robert NUDERDOWN aged 62 died at SANDHURST in 1886
Father = Thomas Underdown and Mother = Anne UNKNOWN
Ref = 10879
Jenn.....I know we are not any closer to finding a Robert as Underwood but there are hardly any Broom or McBroom records to be found.
Deidre can save or discard as she likes but maybe if we scavenge long enough we might just make a breakthrough.....and I know she is desperate for a breakthrough......
.....dee
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Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good on you dee!
Well done :)
;D
Raylen
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Dee I was not being disparaging ;D merely try to work it out in my mind, you have found so very much.
Nuderdown , the transcriber must have been as dyslexia as me , poor soul
Jenn
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Death in Victoria
Mary Elizabeth A JENKINS aged 82 at Carnegie in 1944 reg no 4030
Father Robert Underdown
Mother Elizth MCBROOM
regards Jenn
edit by Jenn Isee Dee allready had found this reply no 17
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I know you weren't being disparaging, Jenn..... :D
Oh ....I'm always having to correct my typing because I type pairs of letters in reverse, Jenn! So that's make two of us! ;D ;D ;D
Raylen....you might be able to help us here....Sandhurst is near Geelong I believe?
I think we'll be able to follow this Underdown family now.......but proving the link is going to be the hard part. I've just looked at all the Underwood records for Victoria.....and there is nothing among them that looks even remotely helpful.
I know Deidre was worried about the year of birth deing different....but we know that ages on certifcates can be misleading at times.
.....dee
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Another death that may be relevant
SCOTT Sarah Jane
Father Underdown Robt Mother Elizth Ann MCBROWN
Death Place EWICK 83 years 1947 Reg# 2664
Sandhurst is now Bendigo.
Cheers
cando
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The age he was 32 when he married he says but gentlemen of that age in those time often dropped their ages down a little to impress the lday etc for what ever reason, he may never have known exactly when he was born, unless therer was a family bible or journals. Birth certificates were not required then.
Well spotted Cando!
Jenn
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Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good on you dee!
Well done :)
;D
Raylen
Raylen....I looked at all the entries for Robt died 1886! ;D ;D ;D
Then it became obvious! ;D ;D ;D
Oh these mistranscriptions lead us a merry dance.....
.....dee
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Damn and bugger missed it several times but here it is
Elzth Ann UNDERDOWN died aged 91 at Brighton in 1916 reg no 8884
Father Mcbroom Jas
Mother Elzth Ann UNKNOWN
regards Jenn
or did I miss it being found if so sorry to double up
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Perhaps this is the death of Thomas born 1857.
14131 1885
UNDERDOWN Thomas D
Father ROBERT Mother ELIZABETH A
District QUEANBEYAN
cando
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I reckon you're right, Cando.....
The one we need to find is Robert James Charles....because if we found him, then we'd know that Underdown did not become Underwood!
And poor Deidre would have this great long thread that took her no-where..... :o :o
.....dee
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Wow I am going to go do dinner again :D :D you girls are going like a storm here ... well done Dee ... now I need to go through it all and see what is what. But the Robert James Charles jumps out and hits you between the eyes doesn't it seeing as it is the first time it has come to light. You have me all excited here thank you thank you thank you all of you.
Raylen, I have checked the inquisition of Robert James Charles Underwood and they have his age at death at 44 in 1916 so that puts his birth year 1872 so what you say about not knowing how old he was is valid. If he was born 1869 he should have been 47 at time of death.
Just a thought was there a marriage of Elizabeth Herd to Robert Underdown as in a second marriage?
Deirdre
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Just a thought was there a marriage of Elizabeth Herd to Robert Underdown as in a second marriage?
Deirdre
Good thinking, Deidre!
I did check for a William Heard death in South Oz but didn't see one.
.....dee
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I checked Vic for a second marriage...............none that I could see
Raylen
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And not in South Oz either. :'(
In fact, I just checked to see if any of the children married in South Oz.....with no results.....
....dee
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Ah well just a thought. ;)
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Joshua George died aged 22 months in 1861 in Victoria.
Ref = 3282
.....dee
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trying to make a little sense of it all
ok so on his mariage and death certficates his name is Robert James Charles Underwood born between 1869 and 1872 by the information to hand
the BISA lists Robert James Charles Underdown as one of the children to Robert Underdown and Elizabeth McBroom
There is a birth in Victoria in 1866
Robert Charles Alexr UNDERDOWN born 1866 at
SHURST to Robert UNDERDOWN & Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Ref =4796
So therefore are they one in the same or two entirely different men with the same mothers names and the same chrisitian name of their father??
Is the coincidence just too much
Then if so why so did he change his name? Maybe he just didn't like it or he was making a new home for himself with a new name?
Jenn
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trying to make a little sense of it all
ok so on his mariage and death certficates his name is Robert James Charles Underwood born between 1869 and 1872 by the information to hand
the BISA lists Robert James Charles Underdown as one of the children to Robert Underdown and Elizabeth McBroom
There is a birth in Victoria in 1866
Robert Charles Alexr UNDERDOWN born 1866 at
SHURST to Robert UNDERDOWN & Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Ref =4796
So therefore are they one in the same or two entirely different men with the same mothers names and the same chrisitian name of their father??
That's it Jenn......we need to prove or disprove that very thing......
I am finding the lack of information turning up on Robert Underwoods very off putting......
If he was Robert Underdown ....why change to Underwood? ??? ???
.....dee
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Found the marriage of Joshua George in EMU CK in 1896 to an Eliza McKinnon.
Ref = 1797
That's another one ticked off if it is William Joshua George!
.....dee
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Found the marriage of Joshua George in EMU CK in 1896 to an Eliza McKinnon.
Ref = 1797
That's another one ticked off if it is William Joshua George!
.....dee
Is there another one?? ???
Joshua George died aged 22 months in 1861 in Victoria.
Ref = 3282
Raylen
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children = Hannah Elizabeth STRIBLEY, PITTERSON (1853-1918),
Robert James (1855-),
Thomas David (1857-), died in 1885
Joshua George, died aged 22 months in 1861
Mary Elizabeth Ann (1861-), died 1947
Sarah Jane (1863-), died 1944
Robert James Charles (1865-),
William Joshua George (1867-), married in 1896?
Henry Emanuel (1874-)
so we need to find ....
the death of Robert James born 1855
what happened to henry Emanuel
and also Robert James Charles
.....dee
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::)
Thanks dee
I think there should be a little smiley face that has
the head going round in circles!
Sometimes I get 'lost' in the story :)
Raylen
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That's OK Raylen ....I know what it's like on the Scavenger Hunt threads! ::) ::)
Now just to add to the confusion.....Thomas D Underdown's death appears to have been registered in NSW as well in 1885! ::) ::)
.....dee
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This is going on word of mouth but we have been told that there is a lot of Underwoods in the Roma, Cunnamulla, St George area don't know what help this is but just threw it in the mix.... ???
I wonder though if the boys moved up here after the father died in 1886
Robert James (1855-), must have died to have another Robert James + Charles 10 years later.
Thomas David (1857-), died 1885 QUEANBEYAN (isn't this Canberra)
Leaves us with
Joshua George ?
William Joshua George 1867
Henry Emanual 1874
Along with Robert JC 1865/1869/1872
I think Joshua George must have died as well hence William Joshua George
Thomas died the year before his father. If there had been a name change perhaps when the father died they found out and moved to Queensland as Underwood?????
This is just me sorting my mind out here hope I am not confusing you all now.
ohoh while I was typing and thinking Raylen found William and Joshua... :P ::)
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Now just to add to the confusion.....Thomas D Underdown's death appears to have been registered in NSW as well in 1885! ::) ::)
.....dee
Dee the one I posted was from NSW bdm's.
cando
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This is not Robert James Charles UNDERWOOD/UNDERDOWN
UNDERDOWN Robert Charles Alexr
Father Robert Mother: Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Birth Place SHURST 1866 Reg# 4796
Now has BISA listed the birth entry incorrectly?
cando
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Robert James Charles died 1916 in Roma Qld
Henry Emanuel doesn't come up in a search of Qld BDM but he could have died after 1914 so wouldn't appear in a search .......... so where is the smilie who bashes his head against a wall... :D
Marriage cert again says born Bendigo
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Oops ....sorry Cando..... I missed the place of death.......
One wonders aboput the name Alexander/Charles part......
I've now found something in WA
Eliza UNDERDOWN aged 38 father ROBERT mother UNKNOWN Elizabeth born BENDGO VIC died 1898
No registration district given
Ref = 2756
These Underdowns moved around.....
I wonder if Robert J C's birth was recorded Nuderwood? But no...nothing came up on a search of the mother's name......
.....dee
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Robert James Charles died 1916 in Roma Qld
Henry Emanuel doesn't come up in a search of Qld BDM but he could have died after 1914 so wouldn't appear in a search .......... so where is the smilie who bashes his head against a wall... :D
Marriage cert again says born Bendigo
Deirdre
Bendigo used to be called Sandhurst
Some of our town names in Victoria change as much as some of your family
seemed to change their names ;D ;D
Raylen
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A Henry Underdown married in 1904 in WA
No parents’ names are given though.
BUT
Looks like it was the missing Henry Emanuel Underdown….
Henry Emanuel Charles UNDERDOWN born in 1905 to Henry UNDERDOWN and Alice Ada BYFIELD at MAHOGANY
Ref = 6886
It's obvious that the first Robert James Underdown would have died in early childhood when the parents named another child Robert James ...so that just leaves Robert James Charles/Alexander Underdown to trace.....
.....dee
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Deidre....what were the names of all of the children of Robert JC Underwood and Bridelia?
Will they provide any clues?
It would be lovely if they named one of their children using the name Emanuel! ;D ;D
.....dee
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There are absolutely no entries at all for Underwood up to 1888 for Bendigo or Sandhurst. Not sure about other places that might be nearby.......Raylen would have more idea than me.
.....dee
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OK - we need a tea or coffee break and seeing I can't take you out to the local coffee shop I have spent the money and purchased Elizabeth Ann's death cert in 1916.
Elizabeth was born in Amagh, Ireland and married in California, AMERICA at the age of 24 to Robert UNDERDOWN.
63 years in State of Victoria.
Children Ages in 1916
Hannah Elizabeth 62 years
Robert James Charles Washington Deceased
Thomas David Deceased
May Elizabeth Ann 55 years
Joshua George Deceased
Sarah Jane 53 years
Robert James Charles Alexander 53 years
William Joshua George 45 years
Henry Emanual 40 years
And it's bed time for me.
cando
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Life in Australia:
Emanuel Underdown was married to Mary Squire by Reverend Edward Holwell at Plymtree church Devon, on 31 March 1826. In the records held at the State library, Emanuel was listed as an agricultural labourer who applied on 23/2/1838 for free passage to settle in SA . His children were John Squire10, Maria Angola 8 and Lycurgus 4 at that time. His address in UK was given as Arundel, Sussex. I have not been able to work out what he was doing there. Certainly, by 1838, this line of Underdowns did not hold the Devon farmland they once held. I suspect that the large size of all the Underdown families meant that the younger sons had to go off and make their own way in life. Emanuel and his family sailed to Australia in the ship "Lloyds", a 406 ton barque. They arrived in Adelaide on 1 December 1838.
Emanuel & Mary settled at Salisbury in South Australia. It is thought that Emanuel was a farm labourer at Reed Beds near Adelaide before settling his own land. Mary had 500 pounds from her family which may have made it possible to purchase land. Emanuel called his property “Widworthy” after the town where he was born in Devon. When he died in April 1863, he was buried on his own land, and when his wife Mary died in July 1870, his remains were disinterred and placed beside her in the burial ground at St. John’s Salisbury SA, Church of England. The elder son John Squire Underdown continued to farm and enlarge the family holdings in South Australia. In the next generation. Robert Emanuel Underdown, the grandson of pioneer Emanuel, lost the lands and died a poor man
from the first families site
I realsie this is not the same family but do wonder if no doubt related, hence the emmanuel
Jenn
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wohoooooooooo aren't certificate just wonderfull
and so are you Cando for doing that, Well done ;)
Robert James Charles Alexander 53 years
Robert Underwood died in 1916 the same year did she die before him?
Cando did it have a date of death please and where buried?
Jenn
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cando!
How very good of you to do that.
I'm sure Deirdre will really appreciate your kindness.
And it looks like this is the family ;D ;D
Raylen
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Cando.....brilliant!
That was very generous of you......... :D :D
Hope you enjoy a good night's sleep.
We have certainly now confirmed the Underdown family......
So....it appears that Robert James Charles Alexander Underdown changed his name to Underwood? ??? ??? ???
.....dee
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Sorry Dee no help for you there Robert William Clarence was their only son the others were girls.
Ok stop looking for Bridelia's death....told you my paper work was a mess...I printed out a heap of info about the Madden family and I must have missed this Bridelia died on 6th July 1968 and was buried at Redcliffe cemetery by George Hartnett Undertakers.............................. :-[sorry.
Back to the children..........3 girls Irene, Sarah Dorothy Kathleen, Ada. There was a 4th girl Bridelia and she is buried with her father at Roma. Robert was the youngest and born 1914 only 2 years before his father died.
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OK...Thanks Deirdre.
Now...just to add something else.....Robert Underdown who married Elizabeth McBroom came from Southleigh, Devon, parents Thomas and Ann nee Harding.
He had a brother Thomas Underdown baptised 1821 Southleigh Devon, parents Thomas and Ann nee Harding.
It's in BISA!
Too tired to type it all tonight, but if you would like the details, I'll type them tomorrow.
....dee
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OK - we need a tea or coffee break and seeing I can't take you out to the local coffee shop I have spent the money and purchased Elizabeth Ann's death cert in 1916.
Elizabeth was born in Amagh, Ireland and married in California, AMERICA at the age of 24 to Robert UNDERDOWN.
63 years in State of Victoria.
Children Ages in 1916
Hannah Elizabeth 62 years
Robert James Charles Washington Deceased
Thomas David Deceased
May Elizabeth Ann 55 years
Joshua George Deceased
Sarah Jane 53 years
Robert James Charles Alexander 53 years
William Joshua George 45 years
Henry Emanual 40 years
And it's bed time for me.
cando
So they were married in America or Victoria Australia ???again...lol
How much did the cert cost you cando? Did you buy it online? Wow that was terrific of you thank you.
Deirdre
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Dee.. Emanuel Underdown came from Widworthy Devon, wondering if there was a family connection happening.
Jenn
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Deirdre,
They married in America and had lived in Victoria for 63 years.
Raylen
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reply 33 tells you about download costs etc. ;)
Jenn
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OK...Thanks Deirdre.
Now...just to add something else.....Robert Underdown who married Elizabeth McBroom came from Southleigh, Devon, parents Thomas and Ann nee Harding.
He had a brother Thomas Underdown baptised 1821 Southleigh Devon, parents Thomas and Ann nee Harding.
It's in BISA!
Too tired to type it all tonight, but if you would like the details, I'll type them tomorrow.
....dee
Dee you have earned more than just a good nights's sleep mate thank you very much I will have to print all this so I can digest it all. You are so fast with the info that I find myself trying to post a reply 3 or 4 times and adding to it before I try again...lol.
In the marriage cert it states Robert JC's father as Farmer, so this follows through with the Emanuel Underdown occupation doesn't it.
Deirdre
There ya go Jenn I will look back at reply 33 I am getting pretty tired here as well and you guys have done all the work...lol...I have just been trying to keep up...lol
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Dee.. Emanuel Underdown came from Widworthy Devon, wondering if there was a family connection happening.
Jenn
I reckon there probably was, Jenn.....might search a bit more tomorrow. The name Emanuel certainly suggests there was.
......dee
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Dee.. Emanuel Underdown came from Widworthy Devon, wondering if there was a family connection happening.
Jenn
I reckon there probably was, Jenn.....might search a bit more tomorrow. The name Emanuel certainly suggests there was.
......dee
dee been meaning to ask is Twiglet your daughter or granddaughter? Beautiful baby.
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found what I think is
Henry's death
buried at Karrata
UNDERDOWN HENRY EMANUEL aged 59 years in 1936 from MUNDARING
Jenn
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My 3 week old grandaughter that I never expected to have, Deirdre....my son is 43 and she's a first child! :D :D
Oh well done, Jenn!
This has been such fun.....
.....dee
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Now what could be found here to confirm or deny is a newspaper article perhaps an obituary for Elizabeth Underdown died 1916. An article may say where her children are from if you follow what I am trying to say.
regards Jenn
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I do know what you mean, Jenn....but that is beyond me......
I'm headed off for tonight....I'll have another go tomorrow......
.....dee
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Congratulations dee, I have one granddaughter she is 6 this May I am not too sure that I will get anymore but you give me hope...lol. They are such a blessing aren't they?
Jenn where is Karrata...excuse my ignorance :-[
Deirdre
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I always preface death cert info with the usual - info only as good as the informant's knowledge.
Definitely stated place of marriage California, America but I found an Elizabeth McBROWN aged 20 born in Armagh arriving on the ASCENDANT in 1851. [Mentioned in BISA] Of course it may not be Elizabeth Ann McBROOM :-\
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1851Ascendant.htm
Elizabeth was buried at Bendigo on 24 August 1916.
The informant obviously didn't know of Robert's death in January 1916. Informant was funeral director.
Cheers
cando
Karrakatta Cemetery is in Perth WA
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html
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Now what could be found here to confirm or deny is a newspaper article perhaps an obituary for Elizabeth Underdown died 1916. An article may say where her children are from if you follow what I am trying to say.
regards Jenn
Where would you look for those Jenn
I suppose it would depend on how curley the writing was how the name was transcribed so it could be interpreted as McBrown.???
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I always preface death cert info with the usual - info only as good as the informant's knowledge.
Definitely stated place of marriage California, America but I found an Elizabeth McBROWN aged 20 born in Armagh arriving on the ASCENDANT in 1851. [Mentioned in BISA] Of course it may not be Elizabeth Ann McBROOM :-\
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1851Ascendant.htm
Elizabeth was buried at Bendigo on 24 August 1916.
The informant obviously didn't know of Robert's death in January 1916. Informant was funeral director.
Cheers
cando
Karrakatta Cemetery is in Perth WA
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html
Robert James Charles Underwood has parents unknown on his inquest papers and this leads me to believe he had severed all ties with his monther in Victoria as it would appear that Bridelia didn't know their names.
Deirdre
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So is Robert James Charles Underwood the only death not
registered as Underdown?
(She asks in total confusion ::))
Perhaps as you say Deirdre this indicates a split in the family somewhere.
Raylen
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I'm still around....drinking milo! ;D ;D
Maybe he fell out with his family and that's what lead to a name change? ??? ???
....dee
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Well if he is anywhere as stuborne as his son, grandson, greatgrandson and greatgranddaughter this is very believable... ;D ;D
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one more at Karrakatta Cemetery http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html Karrata, Western Australia
PITTERSON HANNAH ELIZA aged 63 years 1918 from UNKNOWN
regards Jenn
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I will be back tomorrow thank you all for all your help....I keep saying that but I do mean it. Good night and sweet dreams everyone.
Deirdre
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So is Robert James Charles Underwood the only death not
registered as Underdown?
(She asks in total confusion ::))
Perhaps as you say Deirdre this indicates a split in the family somewhere.
Raylen
Seems that way...lol
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Here's something interesting
a couple of births for Pittersen in Victoria
PITTERSEN
Harold Bendik PITTERSEN BORN 1895 AT BRIGHTON reg no 1269
father Bendik Pittersen mother Hannah Eliza UNDERDOWN
Peter Stanley PITTERSEN born 1893 NewP reg no 6256
father Bendek Pittersen mother Hannah UNDERWOOD
so that is interesting name changing there
Jenn
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further checking reveals
Marriage in Victoria
William Charles STRIBLEY born Sandhurst married Hannah Eliza HERD born Adelaide
1884 reg no 2007
two children
William Charles born 1885 at Sandhurst reg no 5813
Father William Charles Stribley
Mother: Hannah Eliza NUDERDOUN
Norman born 1887 reg no 31855 at Sandhurst
Father William Charles Stribely
Mother Hannah Eliza UNDERDOWN
once again a mix up with the surname But a tie in with the HERD
Jenn
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oooh Jenn....I'm working on a summary....but that adds more speculation.....did Robert and Elizabeth actually marry....or was she telling porkies to her family to have a marriage recorded in California? And what happened to the husband William? :o ??? ???
.....dee
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Just picked up on the UNDERDOWN/UNDERWOOD change!!!!!!
Very very interesting!
Excellent work, Jenn! :D :D :D
....dee
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I was very suspicious of the married in California.....yes she probably was in California Gully nr Bendigo. I remember reading it as a place of birth for one of my mother's ancestors and they lived all their lives in Bendigo. Do a google and you will see it is part of Bendigo now.
Cheers
cando
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Hi Cando....I was too....but had no idea of a California Gully in Victoria! ;D ;D ;D
You learn so much doing this.
.....dee
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I've done a summary....and it was like Topsy...it just "growed and growed"..... :o :o
Don't know whether to post in it parts on here or not......or say if anyone would like it, let me know.......
It's a big help to me....
......dee
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Oh post it Dee ;D
My two bob's worth....before I read your summary ;D ;D ;) ;)
I thought the following from the passenger list is worth noting
McBROWN Elizabeth 20 Armagh, Ire. (on Purser's list, but not in SA REGISTER)
It would interesting to see the birth cert of Hannah/Anna Elizabeth. Who was William HEARD/HERD - a seaman or miner in transit to Victorian goldfields perhaps and therefore he wouldn't show in SA death records.
Also the death certificate of Robert NUDERDOWN/UNDERDOWN may reveal a little more of the story ie how long in SA, where married etc.
Wonder if the confusion has arisen because of illiteracy and accents.
Cheers
cando
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I can probably see that birth certificate at some stage, Cando....but it could be some time away before I am at the SAGHS Library. I'll add it to my list though.....
I had similar thoughts about Robert's death cert..... :-\
I have also wondered about illiteracy and misunderstanding re the name....and Underdown in Queensland...if whoever was recording heard the "Under" part and presumed it was the far more common Underwood...... :-\
.....dee
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Hello thee
yes Dee do post it I am sure it will be a fun summary not a lecture ;D
I also find it a bit hard to believe the marriage in California USA more like California Gully.
I wonder what the birth of one of the children might say as to place of marriage, or even Robert's death.
Another odd thing is I cannot find her Elizabeth Ann Underdown on the Electoral Rolls?
When you do search for underdown the interesting thing is you will get Underwood after the results for Underdown.
My own personal feeling is it is the right family though just a change of name
Jenn
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OK folks....posting the summary ...which is just a list really of what we have found with the odd comment....in parts.
Please pick me up on any omissions, mistakes, dyslexic errors...... ;D ;D ;D
Part 1
What Omega knows about the UNDERWOODS …….
On 31/7/1901 in Cunnamulla Robert James Charles Underwood married Bridelia (Bredelia) Madden (born 4/7/1880 Avadale Qld)
On the marriage cert Robert JC Underwood is 32 and his birthplace is Bendigo Victoria. This puts his birth year at about 1869.
His parents are Robert Underwood and Elizabeth MacBroom and fathers occupation is listed as Farmer.
Robert JC Underwood died in Roma 14th January 1916. Robert James Charles Underwood and a child Bridelia Underwood are buried at Roma Cemetery and according to the Roma Historical Society they are the only two in that grave.
Bridelia (MADDEN) UNDERWOOD died 07 Jul 1968 in Brighton, Queensland, Australia.
Robert James Charles Underwood has parents unknown on his inquest papers.
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Part 2
What we’ve found……..
No UNDERWOODS what so ever with BDM registrations in Bendigo or Sandhurst.
Very few BROOM/McBROOM records in Oz.
But….lots of UNDERDOWN records for Bendigo and Sandhurst.
From BISA….which can have inaccuracies…….it seems lots of the UNDERDOWNS who were in Bendigo at the time of the Goldrush years actually arrived in South Australia……went over for the Goldrush years……a few stayed but most returned to South Australia or went on to other states to mining areas.
UNDERDOWN Robert
Parents = Thos and Ann nee HARDING
Baptised 10th August 1823 Southleigh Devon England
died 13th August 1886 Bendigo Victoria Robert NUDERDOWN aged 62 died at SANDHURST in 1886
Father = Thomas Underdown and Mother = Anne UNKNOWN
Ref = 10879arrived departed Victoria
occupation = Ship's Cook, Goldminer, Farmer
residence = Adelaide
religion = C of E, Meth
married October 1852 in Adelaide SA to Elizabeth Ann nee McBROOM
parents = James and Elizabeth
born c1830 ARM Ireland
died 22nd August 1916 Brighton Victoria Elzth Ann UNDERDOWN died aged 91 at Brighton in 1916 reg no 8884
Father Mcbroom Jas
Mother Elzth Ann UNKNOWNarrived 1851 ASCENDANT
children = Hannah Elizabeth STRIBLEY, PITTERSON (1853-1918),
Robert James (1855-),
Thomas David (1857-),
Joshua George,
Mary Elizabeth Ann (1861-),
Sarah Jane (1863
Robert James Charles (1865-),
William Joshua George (1867-),
Henry Emanuel (1874-)
From Elizabeth (McBROOM) UNDERDOWN’S death certificate in 1916…..
Elizabeth was born in Amagh, Ireland and married in California, AMERICA at the age of 24 to Robert UNDERDOWN.
63 years in State of Victoria.
Children Ages in 1916
Hannah Elizabeth 62 years
Robert James Charles Washington Deceased
Thomas David Deceased
May Elizabeth Ann 55 years
Joshua George Deceased
Sarah Jane 53 years
Robert James Charles Alexander 53 years
William Joshua George 45 years
Henry Emanual 40 years
The 'first marriage'.....from Message #123
HEARD William 28 years Status S Father's name unrecorded
MCBROOM Elizth 21 years Bride's father name unrecorded
29 Aug 1852
at Holy Trinity Church Adelaide
Ref Ade 5/236
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Part 3.
There'll be lots of other snippets of information available for this section once we're happy that this is indeed the family.......
children =
1. Hannah Elizabeth STRIBLEY, PITTERSON (1853-1918),
Added....Her birth in South Australia?
Ann Eliza HEARD born 20 Aug 1853 at Port Adelaide
Father = William HEARD & Mother = Elizabeth MCBROOM
ref = Ade 4/209
at Karrakatta Cemetery
PITTERSON HANNAH ELIZA aged 63 years 1918 from UNKNOWN
PITTERSEN
Harold Bendik PITTERSEN BORN 1895 AT BRIGHTON reg no 1269
father Bendik Pittersen mother Hannah Eliza UNDERDOWN
Peter Stanley PITTERSEN born 1893 NewP reg no 6256
father Bendek Pittersen mother Hannah UNDERWOOD
****NOTE THE NAME CHANGE!
Marriage in Victoria
William Charles STRIBLEY born Sandhurst married Hannah Eliza HERD born Adelaide
1884 reg no 2007
**Note the name Hird….so Elizabeth was not a single woman when she “married” Robert UNDERDOWN. Did William die…desert her? Did they actually marry?
And children born there……
William Charles born 1885 at Sandhurst reg no 5813
Father William Charles Stribley
Mother: Hannah Eliza NUDERDOUN
Norman born 1887 reg no 31855 at Sandhurst
Father William Charles Stribely
Mother Hannah Eliza UNDERDOWN
2. Robert James (1855-),
Probably died in infacncy. Was his death registered?
3. Thomas David (1857-),
Death
14131 1885
UNDERDOWN Thomas D
Father ROBERT Mother ELIZABETH A
District QUEANBEYAN
4. Joshua George,
died aged 22 months in 1861 in Victoria.
Ref = 3282
ErrorSPAM
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]5. Mary Elizabeth Ann (1861-), [/color]
Mary Elizabeth A JENKINS aged 82 at Carnegie in 1944 reg no 4030
Father Robert Underdown
Mother Elizth MCBROOM
ErrorSPAM
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]Added from message #134 .....Is this her birth?[/color]
Elizabeth Ann UNDERDOWN born Inglewood 1861
Father-Robert Mother-Elizabeth Ann Brown
Reg no 17652
6.Sarah Jane (1863-,
SCOTT Sarah Jane
Father Underdown Robt Mother Elizth Ann MCBROWN
Death Place EWICK 83 years 1947 Reg# 2664
7. Robert James Charles (1865-),
8. William Joshua George (1867-),
marriage in EMU CK in 1896 to an Eliza McKinnon.
Ref = 1797
Added...Message #127
burial at Karrata.
UNDERDOWN WILLIAM JOSHUA aged 60 years 1929
Henry Emanuel (1874-)
looks like Henry went to WA …..Henry Emanuel Charles UNDERDOWN born in 1905 to Henry UNDERDOWN and Alice Ada BYFIELD at MAHOGANY
Ref = 6886
buried at Karrata
UNDERDOWN HENRY EMANUEL aged 59 years in 1936 from MUNDARING
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Part 4
(and final part)
Now who is this….from WA Indexes
Eliza UNDERDOWN aged 38 father ROBERT mother UNKNOWN Elizabeth born BENDGO VIC died 1898
No registration district given
Ref = 2756
Back to info from BISA....
Robert Underdown who married Elizabeth McBroom came from Southleigh, Devon, parents Thomas and Ann nee Harding.
He had a brother Thomas Underdown baptised 1821 Southleigh Devon, parents Thomas and Ann nee Harding
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:P :P :P
I'm printing that out to have alongside me.... ::) ::)
.....dee
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Hi All,
Regarding Hannah Eliza[beth] , the daughter who married Pitterson.
There is information on her contained in the war records of her sons on NAA.
Now, I must tell you that name-changing and creating confusion seems to run in the family.
Just put PITTERSEN in search on NAA and read the records for NORMAN,STANLEY and don't overlook HARRY SCOTT [who is using a false name when he enlists]
The STRIBLEY's are all tied in there too.
There are sections in the documents when it seems 'unknown ' whether HANNAH is dead or alive and half brothers are unsure of their relationships and BENDIK PITTERSEN [sometimes BENJAMIN] is both dead and alive.
Although it is not directly about UNDERDOWN, it may shed some light with addresses and birth places if you can unravel it ???
Sue
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The 'first marriage'. Forgive me if it has already been posted.
HEARD William 28 years Status S Father's name unrecorded
MCBROOM Elizth 21 years Bride's father name unrecorded
29 Aug 1852
at Holy Trinity Church Adelaide
Ref Ade 5/236
cando
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The marriage was mentioned but thanks Cando....I have now added it to the summary.
Sue....that's very interesting....especially the bit about name changing. It all adds credence, doesn't it?
.....dee
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Deidre.............Can I ask what did Robert Underwood die of seeing there was an inquest please?
Sue, I was also reading the NAA records allways so usefull, I see that the Stribely boys took on Pittersen's name but not really . Norman was killed in France.
going to check the directories see when they all arrived in WA.
OH Dee excellent summary.
the only one we still have to find is William Joshua Underdown is that correct?
Jenn
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the only one we still have to find is William Joshua Underdown is that correct?
Jenn
Jenn, we've found his marriage...it's on the summary....I haven't bothered to look for more on him....a death would be good.
....dee
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ok Dee....
he is in WA too
burial at Karrata.
UNDERDOWN WILLIAM JOSHUA aged 60 years 1929
Jenn
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Great work, Jenn.
I am going back and modifying the summary to add any new things we find......
I'll be in and out for a little while but I am going out about midday here..... :-\
Good thing....it will give my eyes a rest! ;D ;D
.....dee
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Yes Dee
hasn't it been fun though
Jenn
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It's been wonderful team work, Jenn..... :D :D
.....dee
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the "G" Team
............................. ;)
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Just a few random thoughts on this family.
As there are no marriage records, well any that we can find, for Robert and Elizabeth, I think we can assume they were never married. California Gully may have been just called California [CALI on indexes] and if the registrar was not aware of the name, may have assumed it was California, America - especially many years after the event. I also think that they were both illiterate - hence the inconsistencies with the spelling of their names and dates.
Robert may have jumped ship, and therefore no passenger record.
arrived departed Victoria
occupation = Ship's Cook, Goldminer, Farmer
BISA is usually accurate with shipping records, if they exist. Wonder how long Robert was in South Australia? Was he in a hurry to leave the State???
It would be an interesting exercise to have all the birth certificates to see the inconsistencies with their data. Robert b. c1855 is not registered in either state. I have searched just using Robert and the years 1854, 55 and 56.
Elizabeth was in Victoria in 1853 to register Hannah/Ann Elizabeth who she stated was born in SA. It would be interesting to know where she actually registered the birth. Did they travel overland to the diggings - Dunolly, Amherst and then finally Sandhurst [Bendigo] or did they come via coastal shipping and travel inland.
Probably not much help but it often helps to pen the random thoughts ;D ;D
Cheers
Cando
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You ladies have been busy while I have been singing and playing with the 3 year olds this morning. Well done all of you and I am glad I have created so much fun for you all...lol
dee the summary is terrific ... how do I print it out without getting the whole 10 pages is that possible please?
I do want to print the lot but thought the summary would be a good start and I could keep it in the folder I have now got for the Underwood/Underdown family.
A very happy Deirdre
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Now who is this….from WA Indexes
Eliza UNDERDOWN aged 38 father ROBERT mother UNKNOWN Elizabeth born BENDGO VIC died 1898
No registration district given
Ref = 2756
This looks like it could be Mary Elizabeth Ann (1861-)
Elizabeth Ann UNDERDOWN born Inglewood 1861
Father-Robert Mother-Elizabeth Ann Brown :-\
Reg no 17652
Great work on this everyone and so much fun too :)
Raylen
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Just got home, Deidre....and dying for a cuppa.....
But you can get the summary by copying it by selecting the contents of just the four parts, using Ctrl + C to copy, then open a Word document and Ctrl + V will paste just that part of the thread.
If you have any problems, PM me an email address and I'll email it to you.
......dee
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Now who is this….from WA Indexes
Eliza UNDERDOWN aged 38 father ROBERT mother UNKNOWN Elizabeth born BENDGO VIC died 1898
No registration district given
Ref = 2756
This looks like it could be Mary Elizabeth Ann (1861-)
Elizabeth Ann UNDERDOWN born Inglewood 1861
Father-Robert Mother-Elizabeth Ann Brown :-\
Reg no 17652
Great work on this everyone and so much fun too :)
Raylen
Oops Raylen....you've just made me realsie that I have left out some info from the summary.....I'll go back and insert it now.....
I have completely omitted the info we had on Mary Elizabeth Ann..... :o :o
.....dee
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Part 3.
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]5. Mary Elizabeth Ann (1861-), [/color]
Mary Elizabeth A JENKINS aged 82 at Carnegie in 1944 reg no 4030
Father Robert Underdown
Mother Elizth MCBROOM
Raylen......I agree....that looks like her birth....but Mary Elizabeth Ann died in Victoria....
so the question remains? ??? ???
.....dee
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You all deserve a medal we should have a smilie gold medal...lol
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Just got home, Deidre....and dying for a cuppa.....
But you can get the summary by copying it by selecting the contents of just the four parts, using Ctrl + C to copy, then open a Word document and Ctrl + V will paste just that part of the thread.
If you have any problems, PM me an email address and I'll email it to you.
......dee
Thanks dee will try that now..............Deirdre
-
Part 3.
ErrorSPAM
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]5. Mary Elizabeth Ann (1861-), [/color]
Mary Elizabeth A JENKINS aged 82 at Carnegie in 1944 reg no 4030
Father Robert Underdown
Mother Elizth MCBROOM
Raylen......I agree....that looks like her birth....but Mary Elizabeth Ann died in Victoria....
so the question remains? ??? ???
.....dee
Ooops..............my mistake :-[
Raylen
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;D Raylen.....with all the name changes....is it any wonder we make mistakes! ;D ;D
.....dee
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Elizabeth was in Victoria in 1853 to register Hannah/Ann Elizabeth who she stated was born in SA. It would be interesting to know where she actually registered the birth. Did they travel overland to the diggings - Dunolly, Amherst and then finally Sandhurst [Bendigo] or did they come via coastal shipping and travel inland.
Probably not much help but it often helps to pen the random thoughts ;D ;D
Cheers
Cando
Cando....Anne Eliza was registered in South Australia too by the looks.....
Ann Eliza HEARD born 20 Aug 1853 at Port Adelaide
Father = William HEARD & Mother = Elizabeth MCBROOM
ref = Ade 4/209
......dee
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Deidre.............Can I ask what did Robert Underwood die of seeing there was an inquest please?
Sue, I was also reading the NAA records allways so usefull, I see that the Stribely boys took on Pittersen's name but not really . Norman was killed in France.
going to check the directories see when they all arrived in WA.
OH Dee excellent summary.
the only one we still have to find is William Joshua Underdown is that correct?
Jenn
Jenn missed this in all the excitement...sorry
Robert JC worked as a lengthsman for the Qld Govt Railways now if you are like me and have no idea what this is
You know the platform carts worked by one man that go along and check all the lines to make sure they are free of obstructions and not in a state of disrepare. They call/called them bikes. Robert operated one of these and he used to check the lines to Roma at night before the Mail Train came through............very fast and express.....apparently he needed to relieve himself and he left the cart briefly and on his return (and because his rear red lantern was broken) as he was climbing back onto the bike the Mail Train came through and ploughed into him and the bike. He was in hospital for about 6 days before he died. Cause of death: Concussion of brain, compound comminuted fracture of thigh, injury to liver, secondary haemorrhage, exhaustion. (this last has me wondering....of course he would be exhausted with all this injury). Bet they would have saved him now days. The accident happened on the 13th and he died on the 25th January the inquest went from 31st January to the 19th February 1916. The local police even interviewed him in his hospital bed can you imagine just how difficult that would have been for him, must have been a horrible death.
This is the first time I ever went to the State Archives and I was totally lost and just poking here and there and fell on this info and I didn't photo copy enough of it. I hope I will be able to get back there one day so I can get more of it....like Bridelia's statement etc. It is very difficult to get to if you LIVE in Brisbane and I live on an Island in the SE corner of Moreton Bay. Oh and some one said to look at my local library for FH info ... well our library is very small and the nearest full library (which ours is a branch of) is Cleveland and I don't get to the mainland very often unless going to hospitals or my mother's place so availability is slim for me. Not complaining here...lol...it is a chosen lifestyle so just explaining.
Deirdre
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Got the Summary copied to a text file so will print it out now thanks dee.
Deirdre
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Another snippet......from the Victorian Inquest Index....Robert Underdown, a child, was accidentally drowned in 1861 at Inglewood.
Ref = 705
Maybe this is Robert born 1855......
.....dee
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Hey Dee ... suppose Robert Senior isn't there Mr Nuderdown himself.
Well now Diedre that does sound a long and painfull death, they do say not to relieve yourself near railway tracks. Very heavy injuries probably a while till they got him to a Hospital etc.
I know that a few fellow rc's go to the State Library . Ruskie and Marice C and good ole Trisha. So one of them might be able to copy what you missed. But the Library itself will do it for a smal fee.
Jenn
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The State Library is fantastic Jenn I just fill out an email form and they find the record photocopy it and mail it to me .. they only do a 2 hour search but I get as close to the dates etc that I need and they usually find what I need. The State Archives are different they need you there in person unfortunately. I get to the State Library when ever I go visit my mum she lives close to Southbank.
Deirdre
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Re relieving yourself near railway tracks Jenn...lol...Guess his job didn't allow for a portapotty.. ::)
Deirdre
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OK....going sideways again......and posting the BISA information for Robert Underdown's brother Thomas......
UNDERDOWN Thomas
Parents = Thos and Ann nee HARDING
Baptised 1st July 1821 Southleigh Devon England
died 26th November 1876 Portland Estate SA
buried Alberton SA
arrived in 1849 on the DERWENT*
occupation = Mariner, Labourer, Miner,
Carter, Farmer
Resided at Pt Adelaide, Hindmarsh, Portland Estate
Religion = C of E
Married 30th Aug 1851 Adelaide SA Rachel nee HARPUR
born c1831 WIC Ireland
died 17th Dec 1904 Portland Estate SA
arrived in 1850 on the SULTAN
Children =
Jane (1854-1854),
Thomas(1855-1923),
Rebecca Jane JOHN (1857-1927),
William (1858-1860),
William John (1860-1861),
Anne Elizabeth MATTHEWS (1862-1938),
William George (1863-1916),
Robert John (1867-1917),
Arabella (1869-1870),
Mary Eleanor IRVINE(1 872-1936)
Don't know if this will help us but you never know..... :-\
......dee
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Oh.....something that was asked earlier.....
I'm sure the Underdowns in South Australia must have all been related......Robert and Thomas were born in South Leigh, Devon....and Lycurgus, son of Emanuel, was born in North Leigh.
Looking at the 1841 census there were a few Emanuels in that area...... :D
I'll have a deeper look later.
......dee
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Another snippet......from the Victorian Inquest Index....Robert Underdown, a child, was accidentally drowned in 1861 at Inglewood.
Ref = 705
Maybe this is Robert born 1855......
.....dee
From VIC Deaths
Robert Underdown died 1861 6 years
Father - John Mother - Ann
Raylen
-
Thanks Raylen....we can delete that one then! ;D ;D
.....dee
-
MMmm.
Little Robert UNDEDOWN.1861. drowned
Same year as SARAH UNDERDOWN was buried at Whitehills outside Bendigo.
[Reply #16]
Definitely Underdown territory at that time.
Sue
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Just spent 2 hours travelling to and from a visit to my mother - great thinking time ;D Now please don't shoot me down in flames. I have a gut feeling that Robert UNDERDOWN [ship'scook] jumped ship - not showing on a passenger record in 1852 or so. What if he used an alias to marry Elizabeth McBROOM and the alias was William HEARD. I wonder what is shown as Wm's occupation on the birth cert in Vic....I don't think it would show on the SA one. Now if you use an alias and state you did not marry in Australia, you would be hard to trace. Perhaps I should start a new career as a 'fiction' writer. ;D ;D ;D
Any other thoughts from the team.
Cheers
cando
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I love it and if they caught up with him years later in Vic using his Underdown name again he may have hied it to Qld changing again to Underwood and leaving Elizabeth in Vic.................can I be co writer please cando...pmsl
-
I
wonder what is shown as Wm's occupation on the birth cert in Vic
I am now confused is there a birth in victoria for William Heard/Herd and Elizabeth McBroom
::)
I do like you thinking though Cando sounds plausible ;D
Jenn
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I am off to make dinner now ladies so will be back later. :D
-
Jenn,
I was confused about this last night.
(Some would say I'm confused night AND day ::) )
It seems the birth is registered in both Vic and SA
The birth in Vic states place of birth as Adelaide. :-\
Raylen
-
I had already wondered about the jumping ship part, Cando....but not all the other implications......
It's another possibility for sure......
Omega....don't forget that Robert did actually die in Victoria...recorded as Robert Nuderdown! ;) :D
......dee
-
I was wondering if this marriage
has any registration number in SA.
Would there be a certificate?
UNDERDOWN Robert
Parents = Thos and Ann nee HARDING
Baptised 10th August 1823 Southleigh Devon England
died 13th August 1886 Bendigo Victoria Robert NUDERDOWN aged 62 died at SANDHURST in 1886
married October 1852 in Adelaide SA to Elizabeth Ann nee McBROOM
Interesting that the William Heard /Elizabeth McBroom marriage is
the same year - 29/8/1852. Ref 5/236
I like your theory cando ;D
Raylen
-
Raylen, there should be a certificate as it is in the index...the Heard marriage that is......and it can be seen free if you are a member of SAGHS....which I am.....but I live over 100 kms from Adelaide, and don't drive.
I have it on my list to check when I happen to get there.....but have no idea when that will be....I only get to go when a friend offers me a ride.....
......dee
-
I'm sure a similar sort of thing happened in my family. GGG-Grandfather Deimel and his brother went to the goldfields in Victoria in 1853......leaving my pregnant with twins GGG-Grandmother behind with 3 other young children. They never returned....and there are no deaths recorded.
Wonder what names they assumed? ??? :o
.....dee
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Raylen, there should be a certificate as it is in the index...the Heard marriage that is......and it can be seen free if you are a member of SAGHS....which I am.....but I live over 100 kms from Adelaide, and don't drive.
......dee
dee,
What about the other marriage with no reference number?
Raylen
-
Raylen...it is not in the Index.
Things from BISA are only to be taken as a guide....usually they are correct, but some of what is there is member submitted, and can be wrong.
It is an excellent starting point....but should always be double checked with the actual records.....
......dee
-
Thanks for that info dee
Makes the story more and more interesting :)
Raylen
-
There are two Underdown marriages in the Queensland BDM...an Albert married in 1887 and a James in 1913. They were not born in Queensland....at least they are not recorded in the BDM. They were not born in W A either. I just thought we may have found a link..... :-\
Added....not born in S A or NSW either....
.......dee
-
Thers a James born in Melbourne in 1852 to a John and a Mary ....that doesn't give us any help.
No Albert though.....
Oh well....it was worth trying.
......dee
-
Here is the marriage details again -
HEARD William 28 years Status S Father's name unrecorded
MCBROOM Elizth 21 years Bride's father name unrecorded
29 Aug 1852
at Holy Trinity Church Adelaide
Ref Ade 5/236
I think this registration would have been transcribed from the parish records of Holy Trinity Church. I also understand that a number of early RC marriages are not in the indexes.
You are all probably aware that BISA was compiled [not a good choice of words] by SAGHS using shipping records, bdm's etc. It could be possible to see the Elizabeth McBROOM name on the index/registration and transcribe the date of the marriage to BISA records without actually checking the name of the bridegroom....and after transcribing hundreds of names for UKBMD last year I can now understand how easy it is to make mistakes.
Evening meal time here.
Cheers
Cando
-
I am pretty sure the Parish Records of the Holy Trinity Church are held at the South Australian State Library in Adelaide.
When my cousin returns back from her overseas cruise, maybe I can have a day in the city and do some lookups...... :D
.....dee
-
Just realised that we hadn't actually included these three births for Omega in what we had found.....
Thomas David UNDERDOWN born 1857 in DUNOLLY
Father = Robert & Mother = Elizabeth MCBROOM
Ref = 11946
Robert Charles Alexr UNDERDOWN born at SHURST in 1866
Father = Robert & Mother = Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Ref = 4796
Henry Emanuel UNDERDOWN born at STRA in 1875
Father: Robert & Mother = Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Ref = 5819
Just realised there is an awfully big gap between 1866 and 1875...... ???
And then there is this one that I don't think we've even mentioned anywhere.....
Charles Alex UNDERDOWN born in AMHERST in 1859
Father = Robert & Mother = Elizabeth Ann BROOM
Ref = 15227
Can't see a birth for the first Joshua George .....maybe he was Joshua George Charles Alex ? ???
.....dee
-
Just realised there is an awfully big gap between 1866 and 1875...... ???
....dee
Maybe the last one was a surprise :) given that she was around 50 years old! ;D
Raylen
-
Just realised there is an awfully big gap between 1866 and 1875...... ???
....dee
Maybe the last one was a surprise :) given that she was around 50 years old! ;D
Raylen
miscarriages possibly????????????
Deirdre
-
Have I got this right or have I missed something............notice
1866 Robert Charles Alexr
and
1859 Charles Alex
and also
1865 Robert James Charles.
Do you think there could have been a transcription error here?
CHILDREN OF ROBERT UNDERDOWN/WILLIAM HEARD AND ELIZABETH ANN MCBROOM
HANNA ELIZABETH 1853
ROBERT JAMES 1855
THOMAS DAVID 1857
Thomas David UNDERDOWN born 1857 in DUNOLLY
Father = Robert & Mother = Elizabeth MCBROOM
Ref = 11946
JOSHUA GEORGE ?
MARY ELIZABETH ANN 1861
SARAH JANE 1863
ROBERT JAMES CHARLES 1865
ROBERT CHARLES ALEXR 1866
? Charles Alex UNDERDOWN born in AMHERST in 1859
Father = Robert & Mother = Elizabeth Ann BROOM
Ref = 15227
WILLIAM JOSHUA GEORGE 1867
HENRY EMANUEL 1874
Henry Emanuel UNDERDOWN born at STRA in 1875
Father: Robert & Mother = Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Ref = 5819
-
These are the birth registrations and BISA children, Deirdre.....
Hannah Elizabeth
Her birth in South Australia
Ann Eliza HEARD born 20 Aug 1853 at Port Adelaide
Father = William HEARD & Mother = Elizabeth MCBROOM
ref = Ade 4/209
Her birth as registered in Victoria born in 1853 in ADEL
Anne Eliza HEARD
Father = William & Mother = Elizabeth MCBROOM
Ref = 945
Robert James (1855-),
Listed in BISA
Probably died in infancy. Was his death registered? Can't find it in either state...
Thomas David (1857-),
Thomas David UNDERDOWN born 1857 in DUNOLLY
Father = Robert & Mother = Elizabeth MCBROOM
Ref = 11946
Joshua George,
died aged 22 months in 1861 in Victoria.
Father = Robert UNDERBROOM & Mother = Elizabeth McBROOM
Ref = 3282
Was this his birth and his name registered differently? Because there is the following.....
Charles Alex UNDERDOWN born in AMHERST in 1859
Father = Robert & Mother = Elizabeth Ann BROOM
Ref = 15227
Mary Elizabeth Ann (1861-),
Her birth….
Elizabeth Ann UNDERDOWN born Inglewood 1861
Father-Robert Mother-Elizabeth Ann Brown
Reg no 17652
She was also known as Mary Elizabeth Ann......
Mary Elizabeth A JENKINS died aged 82 at Carnegie in 1944 reg no 4030
Father Robert Underdown
Mother Elizth MCBROOM
Sarah Jane (1863-,
As listed in BISA but can't find her birth but.....
Her marriage
Sarah Jane UNDERDOWN married David SCOTT in 1887 at EMU CK
Ref = 537
SCOTT Sarah Jane
Father Underdown Robt Mother Elizth Ann MCBROWN
Death Place EWICK 83 years 1947 Reg# 2664
Robert James Charles (1865-),
Listed as Robert Charles James Alexader on mother's death certificate....
Robert Charles Alexr UNDERDOWN born at SHURST in 1866
Father = Robert & Mother = Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Ref = 4796
William Joshua George (1867-),
As listed in BISA but can't find his birth either.....
His marriage in EMU CK in 1896 to an Eliza McKinnon.
Ref = 1797
burial at Karrata.
UNDERDOWN WILLIAM JOSHUA aged 60 years 1929
Henry Emanuel (1874-)
Henry Emanuel UNDERDOWN born at STRA in 1875
Father: Robert & Mother = Elizabeth Ann MCBROOM
Ref = 5819
They didn't want to make life easy for their descendants..... :-\
......dee
-
Dee
Henry Emanuel is buried at Karrakatta Cemetery
Aged 59 01/06/1936 Suburb MUNDARING
I think the Eliza UNDERDOWN [WA death index] who died in 1898 may be the wife of William Joshua George.
Cheers
cando
-
Henry Emanuel is buried at Karrakatta Cemetery
Aged 59 01/06/1936 Suburb MUNDARING
Summary ;D
-
Hi Jen and Cando,
I was trying to just give Deidre the births, so only posted the deaths where there wasn't a birth, or to show that it really was who it was....
Ooooh I am getting in a tangle and it is too early in the morning for that. ;D ;D ;D
I think the Eliza UNDERDOWN [WA death index] who died in 1898 may be the wife of William Joshua George.
Cheers
cando
Brilliant thinking, Cando.....that solves that one..... :D :D
-
Now would anybody like to know about Lycurgus?
Of course you all would.
Well he seems to have arrived on in 1838 with his parents on The Lloyds into SA. His mother was Mary Squire. Like his father he was a Naturalist and Hotel Manager.
Now I am not sure of the intervening years but he had a decendant son named Lycurgus John Rickard Underdown born 1904 who was also A Hotel Manager and became well known in the Northern Territory where he was known to all as Uncle Ly. He built a grand hotel in Alice Springs with a lift!!
He ran cattle in partnership with John McAskill He died in 1984.
I will find the link with a picture of him.
Here is a story about his grave and his parents' graves too in Alice Springs.
http://www.abc.net.au/nt/stories/s1246966.htm
Now wasn't that interesting ;D
Sue
-
By the Electoral Rolls Joshua Underwood had a wife called Agnes.
So then by the burials at Karrakatta
in the same Grave as William Joshua Underwood is
Mary Agnes Underwood date of death 16/1/1974 aged 91
Jenn
-
Shall add that to my list, Jenn....thanks for that.
Sue....that's one of the two names I was hoping we'd find among Robert James Charles Underwood/Underdown's descendants....... ;D ;D ;D
What better link could we have had! ;D ;D ;D
Now there's a name.....
.....dee
-
Hi
A bit more
A researcher in WA who has Henry Emanuel UNDERDOWN in his/her tree
http://www.timesupport.com.au/gen/html/fam/fam07229.htm
Marriage
UNDERDOWN HENRY
BYFIELD ALICE ADA
GUILDFORD Reg# 1946 Yr 1904
Cheers
Cando
-
There are quite a lot of people on GRU who seem to have some of these Underdowns in their trees.
Must ask Deidre is she is a member, although I don't expect she is.
........dee
-
By the Electoral Rolls Joshua Underwood had a wife called Agnes.
So then by the burials at Karrakatta
in the same Grave as William Joshua Underwood is
Mary Agnes Underwood date of death 16/1/1974 aged 91
Jenn
UNDERDOWN William
GRIFFIN Mary A
District E COOLGARDIE Reg# 17 Year 1909
Cando
-
Found this while browsing -
Will pm the contact details to Deidre -
This family (at this stage) comes from the area near Honiton - particularly the villages of Northleigh and Southleigh. This is what we have so far: -
Thomas Underdowne bapt. 1635 m Johan Turner
Thomas Underdown bapt. 1674 m Grace Pennington
Thomas Underdown bapt. 1717 m Joan Cox
Benjamin Underdown bapt. 1762 m Elizabeth Bishop
Thomas Underdown bapt. 1791 m Ann Harding
Thomas Underdown bapt. 1821 m Rachel Harpur (came to Aust)
Robert John Underdown born 1867 m Elizabeth May Copeland
Robert John Underdown born 1891 m Mabel May Pollard
This is the Thomas UNDERDOWN mentioned in BISA which may be a brother of Robert UNDERDOWN [BISA mentions the same parents]
Cheers
Cando
-
Cool Cando, well spotted.
Sue......The story on Uncle Ly was very interesting as well as the revamping of the Alice Cemetery.
So as not to confuse anyone as to whom Lycurgus Underdown was, he was the son of
EMANUEL UNDERDOWN and MARY SQUIRE.
As yet we haven’t been able to make a connection to the two families except for Robert Underdown naming one of his sons Henry Emanuel Underdown.
The story on Uncle Ly was very interesting as well as the revamping of the Alice Cemetery.
I do wonder about Elizabeth mcBrooms first marriage and perhaps only marriage.
It is more than like she did marry William Heard as is evidenced by the indexs and then the birth of Ann Eliza registered in both SA and Vic, when she marries it is as Herd but on her childrens birth details her name is Underwood.
The Big Question is Did William Herd Die and the Elizabeth Herd nee McBroom remarry. No mariage found. Did she just take up with Robert Underdown and live happily ever after. Did William Herd die or did he become Robert Underdown.
Two certificates could help with these question. the registration in Victoria of Aann Eliza Herd and the registration of one of the children born to Robert underdown and Elizabeth McBroom. It would be very interesting to see the details for the fathers?
The death of Robert Underdown should also show all the children.
Regards Jenn
-
Dee and Cando
Does the BISA mention who are the parents of Emanuel Underdown?
Jenn
-
Yes, Jenn...Samuel Underdown and Sarah nee Pady.
I thought this afternoon I might spend some time trying to work out the Devonshire Underdowns.......
.....dee
-
Hi Jenn,
Yes, Lycurgus was the son of Emanuel UNDERDOWN and Mary Squire and was born c. 1833[ Devon] and d. 1893.
Uncle Ly [Rickards] was the son of Lycurgus.
Sue
Modified to correct CENTURY of death ::)
-
Have emailed all the BISA UNDERDOWN info to Deidre and Jen.
Cheers
cando
-
I am sorting and compiling and trying to get my head straight and every time I look in bam more info... ;D ;D ;D..I am a happy bunny....thank you all so very much.
;D Deirdre ;D
ps: Email recieved and printed and about to be read at this end thank you so much Cando
-
Gee...I go away for a while and come back and see how this has grown :o!
Sue, Uncle Ly made interesting reading. Thanks for details
cando, dee, Sue and Jenn, What you guys can find just never ceases to amaze me.
I'll keep on following this and if I can find anything helpful - I'll jump on in :)
Raylen
-
Raylen you have taken the words out of my mouth. :D
I am still trying to get this all sorted on paper but everyone here on the island seems to think today is the day to call in.. ;D ;D
It was a very interesting story about Uncle Ly wasn't it I wonder if there is going to be a connection. Apparantly there is a connection in St George but still have to find and prove all that as well. My brother-in-law met some Underwoods when he was out there but getting information out of him is like pulling teeth ;D
Deirdre
-
Hi Folks,
We've made a great team researching this for Deidre and we have had heaps of fun.
However, it seems that most of it was already known....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/033k/
Very disappointing not to be told......we could have spent our time trying to find other information......
......dee
-
Oh Dee.that is very disappointing isn't it.
If we had all the information to hand in the first intstance we would have still looked just as hard to find any further information, but we wouldn't have wasted time and effort on information that was allready to hand.
By the information on the link Deirdre allready knew that Underwood was most likely Underdown.
Now Deirdre where did you find that information, was it family lore or did someone else find the link.
We've made a great team researching this for Deidre and we have had heaps of fun
.
true Dee true, the GTeam was a dream team, We all did very well(as old Mr Grace would say)
Jenn
-
The Underdown family was discredited by the Underwoods as not the right family so I was advised to give it to RootsChat as they were spot on in all their findings you have not wasted your time as you have found more than was given originally I had said that the information I had was found for me and I did not want you to go off on a path preconceived so in fact not proving to this family that all was linked. I had no information about Heard nor SA WA ... the information you have found for me has been excellent beyond all boundaries. You also found for me the link to Devon no small feat Charlee had the same info yes but you enlarged on it and proved it so this family now believes me.
I apologize if you feel you have wasted your time but I don't think you did you were magnificent. I have it all sorted and on paper and have sent it off to my Brother-in-law and Sister-in-law who now believe that they started out as Underdown of course I am having a little difficulty getting them to accept the Heard but they are not as deffinate as they were before.
I have received a link today from my cousin in the Virgin Islands and it is very interesting and I have just come on line to leave it for you as I thought if you haven't seen it you may be interested in looking at it.
http://www.iln.org.uk/iln_years/iln_year_grid.htm
I do apologise if you think I did this wrong.
Deirdre
-
Hello there Deirdre
It wasn't a case of feeling you were wasting our time but more like wasting time on stuff that you allready had. I am not trying to be mean or nasty just trying to clarify how I know I felt. A little miffed but can understand what you are saying though. I am very glad that you were able to find more on your family though, after all that is the purpose of the board ;D
So now where did you get your orginal information that there may have been a change of name, that could be helpfull in the overall .
regards Jenn
-
Deirdre I was disappointed that you didn't give us all the information in your initial request. We all love the challenge of researching but it is a tad annoying to find that the requester already has the information.
I guess this has been a learning experience for you as well.
Cheers
Cando
-
I guess we will all have learnt from this.
Deidre, I have to admit that finding out you already had much of the information meant that I didn't feel the least like going on with the research today.
However, it does make me feel somewhat better hearing that you have been helped by our extensive efforts.
......dee
-
Hello there Deirdre
It wasn't a case of feeling you were wasting our time but more like wasting time on stuff that you allready had. I am not trying to be mean or nasty just trying to clarify how I know I felt. A little miffed but can understand what you are saying though. I am very glad that you were able to find more on your family though, after all that is the purpose of the board ;D
So now where did you get your original information that there may have been a change of name, that could be helpfull in the overall .
regards Jenn
I am answering your question initially Jenn but also dee and Cando - I feel really bad about this you know.
Do any of you know about a group called the Wattlers? Well I chat with them on Sgr, do you know about that site at all? There is a SirTone who found the name difference of Underdown but he was too busy to continue the search or find any true link that I could convince my family that this could be the right family and I wasn't sure myself because there was no apparent link. Especially since Robert James Charles wasn't proven as a child of this particular Robert and Elizabeth and the marriage certificate had them as Underwood and the birth dates didn't gel. So much was contradictory and again no real link that seem plausible. This is why I posted on Australiansurnames but nothing new developed there so I thought I must have given too much information which didn't leave the search clear. I was totally confused with what I had so thought I was carring that confusion to my query. I don't know if I am making sense to you here. All I can say is that I do not feel confused anymore and the fact that you all found Robert Underdown's death and the link to William Heard's marriage and the children matching both names so proving the name change. I know I still have to follow Robert James Charles Underdown to Queensland where he seems to have become Underwood and find out when and why the name changed again but there is a definite link now with what you ladies have found for me. There is a solid trail now. Does this all make sense to you?
Deirdre
-
I guess we will all have learnt from this.
Deidre, I have to admit that finding out you already had much of the information meant that I didn't feel the least like going on with the research today.
However, it does make me feel somewhat better hearing that you have been helped by our extensive efforts.
......dee
Believe me dee I know and appreciate the time and effort you have all put in here and I am extremely grateful for all the work and the information you have found.
Deirdre
-
Deirdre I was disappointed that you didn't give us all the information in your initial request. We all love the challenge of researching but it is a tad annoying to find that the requester already has the information.
I guess this has been a learning experience for you as well.
Cheers
Cando
Cando I truely thought I must have been clouding the issue with all the information I had given on the other site. I can't apologise enough and again I can only repeat that I am sorry and I do appreciate all the effort and the extra mileage you and the other ladies have put in.
I couldn't believe how quick you all moved with your research I was amazed at how you all grabbed the ball and ran with it you were all magnificent. At one point I was trying to post a reply and had to post at least 3 or 4 times to get it to actually post as you were all posting information faster than I could post one reply.
Deirdre
-
Deirdre as I said we can only learn and move on from these experiences.
If you decide to purchase some certs - I would suggest Robert's death and if finances permit, the Vic birth reg of Hannah/Ann HEARD/HERD [to ascertain the occupation of the father ?Wm or Robt]] and Henry Emanuel 1875 [facts may be clearer with time :-\] you will need the registration numbers and these are on previous posts.
I am sure l those who contributed to the thread would love to read the 'facts' detailed on the certificates.
Cheers
cando
-
Looking at the Heard/McBroom marriage certificate is still on my list for when I go to SAGHS in Adelaide. But like I said, I have absolutley no idea when that will be.
......dee
-
Deirdre as I said we can only learn and move on from these experiences.
If you decide to purchase some certs - I would suggest Robert's death and if finances permit, the Vic birth reg of Hannah/Ann HEARD/HERD [to ascertain the occupation of the father ?Wm or Robt]] and Henry Emanuel 1875 [facts may be clearer with time :-\] you will need the registration numbers and these are on previous posts.
I am sure l those who contributed to the thread would love to read the 'facts' detailed on the certificates.
Cheers
cando
Thanks Cando I have copied that suggestion and will look at getting a couple of certs later I just have a little work to do to motivate my husband...lol
Still working on it dee...lol
-
Looking at the Heard/McBroom marriage certificate is still on my list for when I go to SAGHS in Adelaide. But like I said, I have absolutley no idea when that will be.
......dee
Thank you dee I appreciate it.
By the way did any of you look at the newspaper link I left for you and what did you think of it?
Deirdre
-
Hello there Deidre
I feel that you are no doubt sincere in your comments on your research for your husband's family and think that we can just move forward and help in any way we might.
Jenn
ps yes I had a look at the link you added most interesting
-
Deidre, I added the link to my favourites. Thanks for that.
.....dee
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Hello there Deidre
I feel that you are no doubt sincere in your comments on your research for your husband's family and think that we can just move forward and help in any way we might.
Jenn
ps yes I had a look at the link you added most interesting
Thank you Jenn I appreciate that very much.
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In 1910 there were the following Underdown entries in the Western Australian Directory.
Underdown and Keith, Farmers, Goomalling
Underdown Joshua, 291 Collins St, Picadilly
Underdown W. Farmer, Beverley
Underdown Miss L, 55 Bagot Rd, Subiaco
There are lots of directories to check..... :o ::) ;D
......dee
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There's an interesting one listed in 1905 & 1906 at 76 Cheetham St, Kalgoorlie.......
Emmanuel UnderWOOD
.....dee
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William Underdown is listed as Farmer from 1907 onwards to 1910. Between 1900 and 1910 there are no other Underdowns listed.
.....dee
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In 1910 there were the following Underdown entries in the Western Australian Directory.
Underdown and Keith, Farmers, Goomalling
Underdown Joshua, 291 Collins St, Picadilly
Underdown W. Farmer, Beverley
Underdown Miss L, 55 Bagot Rd, Subiaco
There are lots of directories to check..... :o ::) ;D
......dee
dee I sent an email to the girl who put up message on the link that Cando gave me and I got an answer back. She is a descendant of Thomas Underdown and it gives his children there is a William could that be the W Underdown do you think. Will I copy and paste what she sent me or will I email it to you all?
Deirdre
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William Underdown is listed as Farmer from 1907 onwards to 1910. Between 1900 and 1910 there are no other Underdowns listed.
.....dee
Emanuel was mentioned in Adelaide wasn't he?
snap with William ... or do you think this is the brother to Robert?
Thomas's son was born 1863
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OK....going sideways again......and posting the BISA information for Robert Underdown's brother Thomas......
UNDERDOWN Thomas
Parents = Thos and Ann nee HARDING
Baptised 1st July 1821 Southleigh Devon England
died 26th November 1876 Portland Estate SA
buried Alberton SA
arrived in 1849 on the DERWENT*
occupation = Mariner, Labourer, Miner,
Carter, Farmer
Resided at Pt Adelaide, Hindmarsh, Portland Estate
Religion = C of E
Married 30th Aug 1851 Adelaide SA Rachel nee HARPUR
born c1831 WIC Ireland
died 17th Dec 1904 Portland Estate SA
arrived in 1850 on the SULTAN
Children =
Jane (1854-1854),
Thomas(1855-1923),
Rebecca Jane JOHN (1857-1927),
William (1858-1860),
William John (1860-1861),
Anne Elizabeth MATTHEWS (1862-1938),
William George (1863-1916),
Robert John (1867-1917),
Arabella (1869-1870),
Mary Eleanor IRVINE(1 872-1936)
Don't know if this will help us but you never know..... :-\
......dee
The info in the email is a match for this dee.
This is the notes for Robert
Robert had seaman’s ticket 18287 issued in London on the 6/3/1845. He went to sea as a cook and deserted in St John on the 30/6/1845. He then went to Australia.
A Robert ‘Underground’ was admitted to Kyneton Hospital on 13.10.1882. He was 57 years old, a labourer born in England, married and his residence was at Tylden.
This is the notes for Thomas
Thomas joined the Royal Navy in 1838 for 7 years as a seaman. Seaman’s ticket no 389198 issued in London on the 9/12/1847. He went to Australia. His name is recorded incorrectly in the arrivals from the ‘DERWENT” as Edward Underdown.
Rachel was hospitalized for Tuberculosis on 20/10/1869 but survived and was discharged on 8/11/1869. She was hospitalized 3 further times (in 1874, 1887 & 1895) for ulcered legs.
Thomas died of softening of the brain. I wonder what that would be called now?
Deirdre
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There's an interesting one listed in 1905 & 1906 at 76 Cheetham St, Kalgoorlie.......
Emmanuel UnderWOOD
.....dee
I wonder why the change to Underwood ... mystery
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Deirdre,
Cando forwarded some information that you had sent to her, so think I have it thanks.
re Emanuel UnderWOOD in W A.....there are a couple of possibilities.....he may have genuinely been an Underwood.....or again there may have been that name change. There is also a possibility it could hhave been Henry Emanuel Underdown going by the name Emanuel. It's probably one of those things we'll never know....
.....dee
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I have been Googling madly with Underdown and Underwood and on the Archive web site in what they have on line but nothing is coming up to show just when and why Robert JC changed from down to wood either.
In that email it mentions scribes and literacy and navy so one would think they could all read and write so any errors must be transcription ones which the change of name would be deliberate. I thought of that in my sleep would you believe .. I am dreaming about this now... ::)
Deirdre
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Through your Googling, have you come across the following website ?
http://brady.myphotos.cc/genealogy/surnames-oneletter.php?firstchar=U
This looks like it is the Henry Emanuel we have been tracking, son of Robert and Elizabeth......but I can't work out where it links into the Brady tree.....
When you visit the home page, you have to register to get more information..... :-\
.....dee
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I'd be wary of registering for the afore-mentioned site, because I have now found an obviously linked page that looks perfect for the harvesting of email addresses....... :o :o :o ::) ::)
.......dee
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Yes found that during my searches and thought...oh dear. Didn't spend much time on it - just went to WA BDM's.
I actually emailed the author of the site and notified him of the incorrect date of birth of Henry Emanuel. The son is buried in Karrakatta....
Reply can't recall
Hi
A bit more
A researcher in WA who has Henry Emanuel UNDERDOWN in his/her tree
http://www.timesupport.com.au/gen/html/fam/fam07229.htm
Marriage
UNDERDOWN HENRY
BYFIELD ALICE ADA
GUILDFORD Reg# 1946 Yr 1904
Cheers
Cando
Cheers
cando
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Just found this though....looks much more interesting.....
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mgfhs/dawnuvw.htm
I visited the home page so looks reliable.
Joshua George Underdown's death certificate (1861) is listed......
A very cheap transcription available, Deirdre! I'd go for that!
......dee
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SirTone on Sgr put this link up today as well apparently he has been looking for the original web page for ages and it has popped up here but there is an Underdowns in it but it is the Emanuel.
I have to do something about dinner now so will look at the links after dinner thank you. Need a coffee to build up strength as well...lol
Deirdre
ok I forgot to put the link up - I am getting old...lol
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10421/20041220-0000/www.firstfamilies2001.net.au/welcome.htm
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Just found this though....looks much more interesting.....
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mgfhs/dawnuvw.htm
I visited the home page so looks reliable.
Joshua George Underdown's death certificate (1861) is listed......
A very cheap transcription available, Deirdre! I'd go for that!
......dee
Thanks dee will look into it.
Deirdre
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Just found this though....looks much more interesting.....
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mgfhs/dawnuvw.htm
I visited the home page so looks reliable.
Joshua George Underdown's death certificate (1861) is listed......
A very cheap transcription available, Deirdre! I'd go for that!
......dee
Hi there dee and Deirdre
I have used this site for certificates. Sure is good value!
Dawn is very helpful and you will have your certificates
in no time at all :)
If your're lucky you might get names on the transcipt of any
other person requesting the same one. Good contact information ;)
Raylen
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Just found this though....looks much more interesting.....
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mgfhs/dawnuvw.htm
I visited the home page so looks reliable.
Joshua George Underdown's death certificate (1861) is listed......
A very cheap transcription available, Deirdre! I'd go for that!
......dee
dee That could be the best $1 I could spend this year. Thank you mate.
Deirdre
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Hope you get a good response, Deidre. it seems Raylen did....and Cando didn't......so it will be interesting to hear how you get on.
......dee
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Yes found that during my searches and thought...oh dear. Didn't spend much time on it - just went to WA BDM's.
I actually emailed the author of the site and notified him of the incorrect date of birth of Henry Emanuel. The son is buried in Karrakatta....
Reply can't recall
Hi
A bit more
A researcher in WA who has Henry Emanuel UNDERDOWN in his/her tree
http://www.timesupport.com.au/gen/html/fam/fam07229.htm
Marriage
UNDERDOWN HENRY
BYFIELD ALICE ADA
GUILDFORD Reg# 1946 Yr 1904
Cheers
Cando
Cheers
cando
Cando I had that with one branch of my tree also there were a couple of small and a couple of major errors with info and dates to do with the immediate family. At first contact he was keen to be in touch then after I told him about the errors and gave him the correct info I never heard from him again and I have noticed he hasn't changed anything on his web page either. Guess I did the wrong thing again...lol
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Just passing through and thought I would let you know that I haven't found any further info on the family as yet. Still looking at a couple of things. Can anyone tell me by the way is there an old naval port in SA named St Johns back in 1845 please?
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Not that I am aware of, Deirdre.....
....dee
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Thanks Dee
Looks like he jumped a naval ship in Canada then.
Suppose this means he came to Australia via Canada
Unless he was caught and transported............new line of investigation here...but he wouldn't be William Heard then so no - he must have come over from Canada under the alias I think.
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Still nothing new but FH had to take a back burner this week with our granddaughter who is 5 years old visiting for school holidays and she is full on high maintenance... ;D Love her to bits and love to see her arrive love to see her go and after 2 days of recouperation look forward to her return.. ::) ;D
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dee
Twiglet is looking wonderful at 5 weeks such alert eyes.
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Sure is, Omega.
Hope to get to see herr in a few weeks' time....
.....dee
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Not close enough for frequent visits then .. that is a shame. Our little one is on the Northside of Brisbane and we are out in the Bay off Redland Bay so we have gaps between visits as well. Sometimes I think that is good others I am wishing we were all closer together...perverse we humans aren't we... :D
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Hi Does anyone know how long it takes for DAWN COWLEY to answer once you send your money order and request into her please? It's been over a week now and I haven't heard back from her one way or tuther. ???
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All it took was to post that question and whalla it arrived in the post today... ::)
The death cert district is Inglewood Victoria 9/3/1861
Joshua George Underdown infant of 22 months died from Dysentry - 2 weeks
Father Robert Underdown - Miner
Mother Elizabeth Ann Underdown (no maiden name mentioned)
The difference in the record you found me was Amherst Victoria.
My question is. Is Amherst anywhere near Inglewood Victoria please?
Thank you again
Deirdre
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Same area, Deidre......
http://www.amherstwinery.com/Map.htm
Very much the goldrush area....... link to the Regional History link.....
.....dee
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Thanks dee will do.
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That is a great map thank dee.
Twiglet looks as if she is thinking
Oh no not that camera again... :D
She is getting more and more beautiful every week dee.
Thanks again
Deirdre
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Hi guys, I have only just come across your commentary, and am excited that there is someone else that is looking at the UNDERDOWN family that was in Adelaide and Kalgoorlie. I am decended from this family and would appreciate the finding out more about your journey to discovering who the various UNDERDOWN people were. cheers ;D
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Hello and welcome to Rootschat
Have a good read of all the replies and tell us who you are descended from and the let us know if we can help you any further with your searching.
kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi, I have had a quick look through the information on this site...I am amazed at how some of the information has been able to be found so quickly. I have long had an 'UNDERDOWN family tree' provided to me when I was a child with many names and dates of the various family members, but I have not known how to easily go about proving that these records are actually correct, or where to really look for the certificates (when I can afford to get some) or other relevant information. What is amazing to me is that I have seen my family unravel through your online discussion.
I do have a qiuick question though, what is BISA? I saw frequesnt references to it.
Thank you for having this discussion online I have enjoyed reading how my family has been discovered. As a note Robert UNDERDOWN (m to Eliza McBroom) is my GGG grandfather, and William Joshua George UNDERDOWN (m Mary Agnes GRIFFIN) is my GG Grandfather.
cheers
grwalter
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Glad to hear you have enjoyed reading about all of the history that we could find .
Now to The BISA
Biographical Index of South Australians 1836-1885
I take this quote from the web
"The South Australian Genealogy and Heraldry Society, decided in 1980 to publish a permanent record of people who lived in South Australia during the first 50 years of colonisation (1836-1885) to coincide with the State’s Jubilee 150 year - 1986.
The result was the 4 volume set - Biographical Index of South Australians 1836-1885 edited by Jill Statton. A further 4 years of work resulted in the publication in 1990 of 2 more volumes of biographical information - as South Australians 1836-1885, edited by Jan Thomas. Both have been long out of print and now command high prices if they ever come onto the second hand market.
Now Archive CD Books Australia, in partnership with the South Australian Genealogy & Heraldry Society Inc, has reissued both these sets - six volumes in all - as a facsimile of the original on a 2 CD set.
~~~~~~~~
The CD-ROM advantage
This CD-ROM edition not only makes this vast body of information readily available again, but enhances it with its full text searching. Now you can:
find many more names that can be found in the original alphabetical arrangement or printed index - especially the mother's maiden names and married names of daughters. For example there are 74 biographies of people with the surname "Dawson" in the 2 sets, but a search for that name returns 294 occurrences.
search by place and find all people associated with that place— a great local history resource. For example a search for "Gawler" returns 4682 occurrences. No index to places is in the original.
search for places of origin—how many and who are listed as coming from say Norfolk or Truro in Cornwall? For example a search for Truro (Cornwall) returns 137 occurrences. No index to places of origin is in the original.
find out who else is listed as coming on your ancestor's ship (same or another voyage)—just search by name of vessel. For example a search for the Ship Trafalgar returns 347 occurrences. No index to ships is in the original.
search by any other word for any other purpose of interest, e.g.
- occupation—how many are listed as solicitors (a search gives 205)?
- religion—all those identified as say Presbyterians (a search gives 2682)
enlarge the image on screen to easily read what is very small type in the original.
~~~~~~~~
About the Biographical Index of South Australians 1836-1885
This major project involved over 2000 volunteers and 100,000 working hours in collecting, collation, checking and storing on computer approximately 100,000 entries.
Gaining the information was a huge task. Apart from Society members, the material came from individuals, archives and public records such as church registers, ships’ passenger lists, and burial records; private papers which include, wills, family bibles, birthday books, and letters of administrations. Nothing of this magnitude had ever been attempted in South Australian before (or since).
It was originally published in 1986 as a four volume reference set totaling 1958 pages of closely typeset information, alphabetically indexes, of single women and adult males with associated family details and maiden names cross reference – an invaluable contribution to the preservation of the State’s history.
Entries record basic biographical information about an individual such as parents, spouse and children, birth date, marriage date, death date and place, arrival in South Australia (including ship if known), plus residence, religion, occupation and more.
A complete entry could contain the following detail (with example data):
entry name: "HEWETT Henry Grigg
par: Henry and Frances, Matilda Eliz nee, BACCHUS
b: bapt.14.1.1816 Portsea, HAM ENG
d: 16.1.1850 Nth Adelaide SA
bd: WTC
arr: 1836 BUFFALO
occ: Mason, Clerk of Police Court
res: Nth Adelaide
rel: C/E
m: 30.11.1837 Adelaide SA
spouse: Mercy nee ABBOTT
par: Giles and Hannah nee FROST
b: c1817 NTH ENG
d: 4.4.1861 Pt Elliot SA
bd:
other:
Ch: Hannah Frances (1838-1857). Henry Giles (1839-1840). Priscilla Myra (1840-1861). Danl John (1842-1924), Wm Alfred (1844-1922) Martha Louisa Mary, TUCKEY (1846-1882), Emily Matilda (1849-1850) ""
A few of the folk are lucky enough to have the BISA in their collections
Jenn
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Victorian Police Gazette 8/4/1891 -
A warrant was issued against Robert James Charles Alexander Underdown for 3 months imprisonment, in default of paying a 10 pound fine for obscene language. He was described as "Victorian, labourer, a saw mill hand, 26 years of age, 5 foot 11 inches high, medium build, dark completion and hair, dark-brown moustache and side-boards, may be clean shaved or may have his beard growing which may be rather scanty on the cheeks and of lighter colour on chin than moustache, small squinty eyes, believed to have a mark of cut on chin, peculiar expression on mouth when speaking as if jaw or tongue had been injured; wore black sac suit larrikin cut, back flaps and buttons on coat, bell-bottom trousers with sidepockets in which he usually keeps his hands when walking, pink silk sash round waist, larrikin high-heeled shoes, hair fringed, never wears a collar, but usually has a silk handkerchief round neck, low countenance and appearance. A second warrant of commitment has been issued against him for assault".
What a fabulous description and also provides info on why he may have changed his name and moved to QLD.
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Hi all,
To highlight a portion of the underdowns from WA
My name is Kelly, my grandfather is Donald Richard Henry Underdown (Haddow) and his adopted father (uncle) is Henry Charles Emanuel Underdown (b) 1905 in Mahogany Creek. Henry was married to Rose Caroline Rigby (my grandfathers maternal aunt) (b) Prahan Victoria. They married on June the 28th 1930 when Henry was 25 and Rose was 36. Rose could not have children of her own and her sister Mary Haddow tragically passed away from sepsis when her son (my grandfather) was under a year old. Rose and Henry adopted my grandfather and he regarded Henry as his father. His biological father remarried but that is another story in itself.
Henry Charles Emanuel Underdown was the son of Henry Emanuel Underdown and Alice Ada Byfield. Henry Emanuel Underdown was born sometime around 1875 in Victoria (Vic birth index 5819) and is the son of Robert Underdown and Elizabeth McBroom.
My understanding is that there is a large group of Underdowns (several siblings and cousins having migrated out in way or another to Australia) originating from Devon (northleigh, southleigh and mary). There are a lot of naming after predecessors which makes it rather hard to follow at times).
I am only just beginning to compile a little book for my grandfather on the Underdown family and their origins in Devon. Despite being born Donald Richard Haddow, my grandfather has always been known as an Underdown and had very little knowledge of the Haddow side beyond what he has said so far. He is very interested in knowing more about the underdowns and where they come from. He had thought the origins of the family were rooted in Kent (not unsurprising given such a large portion of Underdowns were from Kent as well). It will be fun for me to surprise him with all of the interesting tales and the fact that they were from Devon.
I've attached a photo of Henry (we refer to him as old paddy) and my grandfather Don (mind the bell bottom pants). when I asked him to describe paddy, Don said he was a giant of a man, he was extremely fit (as he would have to have been, he owned and worked a saw mill in mundaring). he was a hard man and worked even harder. My grandfather grew up going to work in the bush when he was a child and spent many years working right beside Henry lopping trees until he began his own apprenticeship as a blacksmith at the midland railway workshops.
Paddy's father Henry Emanuel Underdown passed away in 1936 due to an accident at the saw mill in Mundaring and this happened with paddy on site with several other workers. from an investigation it was assumed that Henry had made an error in moving to shovel sawdust whilst the machinery belt was in motion, and he was struck on the head before collapsing into a sawdust pit. he was conveyed to hospital to undergo surgery, but he never regained consciousness. Alice Ada continued to live in Mundaring following Henry's passing and my grandfather always tells us some humorous stories about her and life in the hills.
(sorry to ramble on but thought you might like a little more information on where the hell Henry went.)
I am on ancestry.com, Geneanet and a host of other little sites gathering information. I have spent alot of time searching WA sites and digging through Trove but have only just touched the surface on other states in regards to family research. it's hard keeping to one line at a time, there is so much to explore!
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Hi
I am a descendant of Thomas and Ann Underdown (nee Harding) of Devon, England. Their children Thomas and Robert Underdown came out to Australia. I am descended from Thomas' branch - you are descended from Robert's branch.
If you are still interested in finding out more about the Devon Underdown line, I recommend you start here - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Underdown-360
I am gradually adding as much detail on the family as I can to Wikitree. That link will take you to what I have added on Paddy's father, and you can keep clicking each generation back to find out more.
If you would like some more specific detail, please don't hesitate to contact me and we can private message each other.
Regards, Eramophla