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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: tup1 on Saturday 29 March 08 14:59 GMT (UK)
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Please can anyone help solve my problem re my grandfather Thomas Toulson born 1879 Billinghay.Bap.4/May/1879 parents James & Jane Elizabeth (nee Brooks).
The marriages? info I have from Thomas's Grandson son of Leslie Brook Toulson born c1907 Gt Ponton.Bap 10/Feb/1907 is that Thomas married Minnie Brook(nee Cupit) and she had Leslie from a previous marriage but was adopted by Thomas.Minnie died (no info)and Thomas then married Fanny Hoyes b.1889 Ropsley.on 22/Jun/1889 Wesley Chapel Grantham.
On Leslie Brooks bap.it gives his parents names as JOHN THOMAS & Minnie Toulson Gt Ponton.also there is a Thomas Henry bap 10/Jul/1905 (remarks on baptism (proberbly dead ?)with same parents.
I cannot find Thomas's marriage to Minnie which would prove his fathers name.
I still have an uncle who says his dad was always known as Thomas.I would love to solve the mystery.There was another Thomas b.c1875 married a Emma Charity 7/Nov/1898 Gt Ponton but his father was named William.
Fingers crossed for any help.
Kathy
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Birth:
Jan/Feb/Mar 1907
Leslie Brooks Toulson
Grantham ref 7a 448
Getting his birth cert might help clarify his parentage. It is highly possible the Brooks Chrsitian name came from his grandmothers maiden name,not necessarily that his father was actually a Brook.
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There is also birth of Thomas Henry Toulson in Jul/Aug/Sep 1905 ref 7a 451
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The Thomas Toulson / Fanny Hayes marriage is Ap/May/Jun 1912 ref 7a 1202
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Minnie Grace Toulson b abt 1883 died 1909 4th quarter Sleaford Vol 7a pg 267
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Birth
Jan/Feb/Mar 1884
Sleaford reg distr ref 7a 449
Minnie Grace Cupitt
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1901 RG13; Piece: 3051; Folio: 47; Page: 2
Minnie Cupitt 17 yrs servant b Wilsford Lincolnshire at Mr Watson's Farm, Temple Bruer.
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Hi Lizdb and Heywood
Thanks for Info that you have both sent it has certainly helping to sort it out.All I need now is to find their Marriage to make it complete.It has been difficult because there were a lot of Toulsons around.
Many Thanks to you both
Kathy
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The "other" Thomas you refer to also calls himself John Thomas sometimes - might be worth not ruling him out too readily. Here he is in 1901:
RG13 3052 142 1
north Rd
Grt Ponton
John T Toulson 24 Yardman bn Billinghay
Emma 23 wife
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There's part of a marriage
Q4 1904
Sleaford 7a 922a
Thomas TOULSON
but no other half.
An "a" after the page number normally indicates some sort of major error in the original registration - indeed the TOULSON entry is handwritten at the bottom of the index page.
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I've called myself to look in the complete registers for Minnie Brok/Brookes/Brooks/Cupitt for that year and quarter but couldn't spot her.
Only looked at the typed bits though.
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I'm a bit slower - but found nothing either (incl looking for handwritten bits at btm of pages!)
Looks like getting cert time!
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for added interest - it gets to you doesn't it!
transcribed as Winnie
1891 RG12; Piece: 2580; Folio 37; Page 20
Minnie G Cupitt niece to William, head, 36 yrs single and Mary E , housekeeper, single, housekeeper.
She could be and perhaps is likely to be the daughter of Mary.
There is also a birth for a Minnie Grace Cupitt in 1904 Sleaford.
Certificate needed for Leslie to clarify and then let us know please!
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Birth Q2 1879
TOWLSON Thomas Sleaford 7a 450
(just to show it exists) ;)
Mother died by 1891
Death Q2 1889
TOULSON Jane Elizabeth 28 Sleaford 7a 262
I can't spot Thomas in 1901
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James TOULSON has another TOULSON child aged 7 in 1901. He had married Louisa Jane GARRICK in 1891, then she died in 1896 aged 26.
His housekeeper (Harriet DICKINSON single) has 4 kids (including one aged 7). James married her in Q2 1904.
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Hi Lizdb & Heywood,
Grateful thanks for all the info,I willhave to study it to fit all the jigsaw together.
Hi GeeoffE,
Elizabeth died April 1889.
James other son was John(Jack)Henry my Grandads brother.
James married Loisa and they had 5 children inc 1 set of twins.she died the same year they were born 1896.
James married Harriet and had 2 children.
He was certainly a busy!!! man having sired 9 children!!!!.
Is there any chance of finding Minnie Grace Cupitt's marriage to her first husband Mr Brook I would realy appreciate it if you could.
Very many thanks to you for your help
Kathy
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No signs of a marriage on Free BMD Kathy - tried all sorts of searches.
The certificate would indicate her marital status and any previous name.
It may be that Leslie was named after Jane Elizabeth as has been suggested.
good luck
heywood
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James other son was John(Jack)Henry my Grandads brother.
Yes, there was John (10 in 1891) - but also William (7 in 1901).
Surely the twins (Charles and Ellen?) were reg Q2 1897 (Ellen died soon after) - quite a while after Louisa died. ??? Also they were born in Grantham district ...
You have obviously studied the family - I can only say what I see. :)
Like heywood, I can't find Minnie's marriage.
I also notice that the last two children of Harriet DICKINSON in the 1901 census were born in Billinghay, the younger one aged 4 months. I wonder who the father was?
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Hi Heywood
Thanks for your help I will try and get Leslies birth certificate and see what it tells me
Cheers
Kathy
Hi GeoffE,
First of all my info of John(Jack)Henrys family came from one of his sons Arthur Leslie b.1914 wife Florence who only died 2004 and she kindly gave me a family tree in letter form for her side of the family and no mention of a William even when I met her so I did not know he existed untilyou sent the info.Many thanks for that.(another link in the chain).I will realy have to get Leslies birth certificate to find out his fathers name if it is on?? it is possible that she was an unmarried mum and just used the name Brooks to cover it up and then when she married Thomas he then adopted Leslie to make him legal??
Many thanks for all the help you have all given me
Cheers
Kathy
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what I'm not understanding here is why do you think (other than the family story) that Leslie was not Thomas's child.
If he was baptised soon after birth, then either they weren't married but were parents or .. and I'm lost then.
Thomas Henry was born 1905 and was Toulson so they must have been together then.
Am I missing something really obvious. ???
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no mention of a William
I can't spot a birth reg for him - I thought I had one for 1892 but that one died in the same quarter.
Anyway on the 1901 there is
William TOULSON (son of James) 7 Billinghay.
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Geoff and Kathy,
I've not been following your discussions re James etc - but I am still searching for the elusive Minnie?
Can I ask if anyone has Thomas in 1901? I have him with parents James and Jane in 1881.
1891 he is with James, a widower and brother John 10 yrs.
Then 1901, the only one to be found is with Emma., who is born 1876.
There is an Emma E Toulson, unmarried in 1901 though, born 1875.
There is a death for an Emma, born 1876 in Grantham reg district in 1903. This could be either of the above.
Similarly Emma's husband could be your Thomas, although, you say that her husband's father was William (I can't see anything to match that) or it could be Thomas' brother John (wrong age but often happens) as he seems to have disappeared by 1901. Correction- John is a patient in hospital. :( (recorded as Foulson)
More mysteries- more questions. ::)
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I'm with Heywood on this - why, if Leslie (1907) and Thomas (1905) were registered as Toulson, (and there is the possibility of a Toulson marriage in 1904) is there any evidence they were children of another marriage and adopted by Mr T?
Getting Leslie's birth cert is a good idea to confirm his parentage - maybe Minnie isnt his mum at all! Just throwing a spanner in the works for the sake of it!
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Hi Geoff,heywood and lizdb.
Sorry but have just got on after internet problems and found all your messages.I wil try and sort them out (a lot of twist and turns).I agree with you all that Leslies and Thomas Henrys birth certificates might solve the problem re parentage.Will try local registrars office and will let you know the outcome in the meantime many many thanks for all your help.
Kathy
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looking forward to it :D
good luck
heywood
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Hi lizdb,heywood&GeoffE,
Have recd the birth certificates of THOMAS HENRY TOULSON born 1905 and LESLIE BROOKS TOULSON born 1907.ordered 3 April recd yesterday 5 April from Lincoln Brilliant service.(Both GT PONTON)
Thomas Henry Toulson B.17/Jul/1905 Parents Father JOHN THOMAS TOULSON.Mother MINNIE GRACE TOULSON(NEE CUPITT) informant Mother Registered 8/Aug/05. Bap.18/Jul/05 remarks on baptism (probably dead)? did they register his birth after death???.
Leslie Brooks Toulson B.4/Jan/1907 Parents Father THOMAS TOULSON.Mother MINNIE GRACE TOULSON (NEE CUPITT) informant Mother.Registered 12/Feb/07
Bap.10/Feb/07 Fathers name given as JOHN THOMAS
So it looks as if Grandad Toulson & Minnie were married(no proof)I wonder if that was her name that was missing of that marriage in 1904?.The name Brooks must have come from my Grandads mothers maiden name (Jane Elizabeth Brooks)as suggested so the story that Leslie Brooks Toulson was adopted was a big porky!!! I shall have to tell his brother and his son but as they know I was searching for info they wont be surprised but at least they will know that he was a blood relation.
Have rechecked Thomas Toulsons marriage to Emma Charity(Have photocopy from Parish records)Nov 7th 1898 at Gt Ponton and it gives THAT Thomas Toulsons father as William?? but no clues as all the witnesses were Emma's family.
Also found a Thomas Toulson married a Ellen Bird 1896 Sleaford Jan-Mar 7a 619 on Ancestry(Don't know if there is any connection)
Anyway Many Many thanks for your help
Kathy
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Also found a Thomas Toulson married a Ellen Bird 1896 Sleaford Jan-Mar 7a 619 on Ancestry(Don't know if there is any connection)
Hi Kathy, I guess that's for you to judge :)
1901
High St, Ruskington
Thomas TOULSON 30 Farmer's Waggoner, Fulbeck
Ellen 28 Ancaster
Ernest 8 Sleaford
Births Mar 1893
BIRD Ernest Sleaford 7a 466
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Hi GeoffE
Thanks for reply will have to check into the Fulbeck Thomas Toulson
Cheers
Kathy