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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: fizzybubble on Monday 17 January 05 10:12 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for a family headed by John W Thirlwall born 1808/1809 Shilbottle Northumberland
In the 1871 census he was living at 156 Blackfriars Road. Registration district : St Saviour Southwark
Sub district : Borough Road
Thankyou
Fizzybubble
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Fizzybubble
John Wade Thirlwall died aged 66 at Lambeth, Surrey in 1876, June qtr, vol 1d, page 204
have you the cert which may give you where he was living when he died, it will also give you the person who registered the death (possibly a family member?).
What was the census reference in 1871?
Who was living with him in 1871?
I did find this family at 55 Geneva Road, Brixton (St Mathews) in 1871 which is (definitely THIRLWALL)
John Thirlwall head 25 musician Cramlington?, Newcastle
Bessie " wife 24 St James, London
Bessie " daur 2 Kensington, London
Henry Morley wife's father 60 Artist Picture Painter, Fleet Street, London
Elizabeth " wife's mother 55 Windsor
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Regards
Bryant
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The census reference was RG10/604.
Household was :
John W Thirlwall b Shilbottle Professor of Music
Annie Maria Carri 35 b. Hull vocalist
Frank Stewart 11 b. Lambeth scholar
Annie Emma Leng 34 b. Hull vocalist
Does this help ?
Fizzy
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fizzybubble
what age was John W Thirlwall?
it's interesting to see that both John's are involved in music!
Cramlington is on the outskirts of Newcastle, Shilbottle is approx 29 miles north.
Bryant
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Fizzybubble
Something is wrong somewhere! (his father must be the same name)
The 1871 John Thirlwall with wife Bessie...is JOHN WADE THIRLWALL
1868 Pancras
John Wade Thirlwall married Bessie Morley...Pancras, vol 1b, page 205, June qtr
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Regards
Bryant
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yes I am sure that they are related in some way as they both come from Northumberland and have this love of music.
John W Thirlwall would have been 51 in 1861.
Fizzy
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Yes they were both John W I know that. The younger John called his son Charles Wade but he died soon after birth.
Fizzy
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Fizzybubble
You don't appear sure that John Wade Thirlwall is the son of John Wade Thirlwall !
The purchase of John & Bessie's marriage cert will confirm John's father and occupation, as well as Bessie's which you already know as Henry Morley who is an Artist.
You probably know this......John & Bessie have lots of children in 1881 and a niece!
Am a bit slow today...your line is John (senior) and although it's nice to know the offshoots you want more on John and where he was pre 1871! sorry....
I assume the name of Thirlwall originates from the place...Thirlwall in Northumberland...the Castle having been built out of Hadrians wall....and you are trying to get them step by step back to whence they came!
Regards
Bryant
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Yep - that will be the ultimate solution. That is why I wanted to find these families in 1861.
thanks for your help
Fizzy
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Fizzybubble
Hopefully Lookuppers who have 1851/1861 census name index's will find who you are looking for!
If you don't find John Wade Thirlwall (senior) in 1861 ...
try looking for Bessie Morley aged abt 14 with or without parents Henry & Elizabeth for the same period
reason....John Wade (junior & musician) would have been abt 15, and Bessie (father an Artist) abt 14...would they have gone to an Art/Music School/College together? would it lead anywhere?
Worth a try if desperate
Best of luck
Bryant
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That is very good thinking - they had to be in the same community somewhere didnt they ?
Thanks for all your help.
Fizzy
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In the 1871 census John Wade's grandson is listed as Frank Stuart. Was he widowed Anni Maria Corri's son? or that of another daughter.
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A bit more info. Anni married Eugene Dussek Corri in 1962, he was a grandson of the impressario Dominico Corri
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Corri died in 1870 and Anni is listed as widow in the 1871 census.
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An old post it is, post holder being fizzybubble....
Is it still alive? is anything required?
some substance......
1871 census
Blackfriars Road, St George The Martyr, Southwark, London, Surrey
John W Thirlwall....Head.....61 widr...professor of music......Northumberland
Annie Maria Corri...Daur.....35 wid......vocalist.....................Hull,Yorkshire
Frank Stuart....Grandson....11.............scholar....................Lambeth, Surrey
Annie Maria Leng.. Niece....34 unm......vocalist.....................Hull, Yorkshire
Margaret Porter...Servant..60 mar.......gen servant...Aberwystwith, Cardigan, Wales
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Frank Thirwall Stewart born June qtr 1860 Lambeth R.D...vol 1d, page 238
Bryant
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A very old post.....the first John Wade Thirwall of Shilbottle married Maria Gleadow on 24 May 1828. Their children were Annie Maria b 1830, William b 1832, Eleanor Wade Thirwall b 1835 and Emily b 1838. That is him posted in the 1871 Census.
The other John Wade Thirwall may have been his nephew. In 'The Musical World' 24 June 1876 there is a long obituary. It says 'Among the mourners were his three daughters Annie, Ellen , Emily and nephew John Thirwall and Mrs John Thirwall'
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2J4-3Q5
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Yep - that will be the ultimate solution. That is why I wanted to find these families in 1861.
thanks for your help
Fizzy
1861 Census
John Wade Thirwall of Shilbottle with a nephew named John Thirwall aged 16 (born circa 1845) . His age may or may not be correct. As Emily Thirwall is also here also aged 16 ( so b.1845) But, Emily Thirwall is on the 1841 census aged 3 (born 1838) 1841 Census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQK6-BL4 1861 Census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MG-W999
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Emily Thirwall's age is mistranscribed. On the original record in 1861 Census her age is 23 and not 16