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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: *sparkle* on Friday 09 May 08 14:05 BST (UK)
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On at least two of their children's birth certificates it states that Alexander HOGG b 1860 Roxburghshire and Agnes JEFFREY/JAFFEREY b abt 1871 Coldstream, Berwickshire; married 28 June 1889 at South Shields, Durham.
I cant find their marriage certificate!! Can anyone help? Agnes was illegitimate so I'm curious to see if her father's name was mentioned. All I have is that her mother's name was Mary JAFFEREY.
A also cant find their daughters birth details' Mary HOGG. She was born in about 1890, 'Durham' is all it states.
Any pointers help/tips are greatly appreciated as this one has been frustrating me for a while!!
Tx
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Hi
This may just be coincidence but on FreeBMD is the following birth
March qtr 1890
Mary Jaffary Hogg S Shields 10a 778
Could this be your missing Mary?
Happy hunting
Chris
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sparkle - to me there's two options:
1 - The date & place of marriage given was not the truth :(
2 - Assuming you've looked at the images of the GRO index they are available on FreeBMD) as well as used a search function; that you've considered spelling variations or that Agnes had been married before (in that case the index would have the previous married name) the other possibility is that this is one of those rare omissions from the GRO index. It may be worth contacting the local register office (South Tyneside) & seeing if they will do a search for you. Some won't without a specific location (ie church etc) as they would have to search numerous marriage registers - I checked the local BMD site, but it doesn't have South Shields marriages on yet.
http://www.southtyneside.info/communitysupport/register/
As regards Mary's birth - have you considered that if 1 above applies she may have been registered under Agnes' maiden name?
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Hi
There is a marriage on freebmd March qtr 1886 Tynemouth 10b 278 giving Alexander Hogg plus one other male and one other female so quarter not complete. Agnes could be the missing female.
Rosie
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Agnes Hoy Jafferey, illigitimate, was born 17 Nov 1870 in Castle-Law, Parish of Coldstream of Mary Jafferey, farm worker.
Perhaps Hoy is the father's last name?
Janis
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Thanks guys.
First, it looks like Mary Jeffery Hogg in South shields could be a good bet... I'd actually just been looking in Durham as thats all that it said. So I'm going to send off for that one. BTW Mary HOGG was lovely and she lived until she was 98 but she never married :( But it was like having two great Grannies :D
I'd found the Agnes HOY JAFFEREY reference on IGI and on Scotlands people.... and I just wasnt sure about it, but yes HOY could be the father's name, so I'm going to go and investigate that one. Thanks :)
As for the marriage, it had dawned on me that it may have been a fabrication as there is a son who was born 1888.... who I also cant find birth details for. But yes contacting the register office may be a new avenue I havent followed. I hadnt followed up the 1886 reference but if all else fails I'll send off for that one too just incase.
Thanks guys its all helpful stuff!!
Tx
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Durham often means the county rather than the city - it is always a problem so you will almost certainly find that the South Shields entry is the right one as it is in the county of Durham.
People nipped back and forth over the river a lot too so do include Northumberland in your searches.
Andrea
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Thanks. I had been including Durham, Northumberland, Berwickshire and Roxburghshire in my searches; the family moved around quite a bit between 1871 and 1901! All of their children were born in Scotland except Mary. Just a shame HOGG is a popular name around the borders!
I'm going to send off for that certificate and hope its the right one!
Thanks
Tracey
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If you write to the local register office they will check it is correct without charge usually - unlike the GRO!
Andrea
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as there is a son who was born 1888.... who I also cant find birth details for. Tx
John Hogg - birth registration June qtr 1888 Berwick Reg Dist 10b 419
I think that this place of birth ties in with the census information doesn't it
Rosie
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Hi Ive done quite a lot of looking into that John Hogg, and the birth record would tie in lovely with the census info but his birth date I'm sure was 12 Aug 1888, and its definitely not him as Ive already checked :( Long story (on a couple of other threads) but in his war record he was John Hogg Smith which then makes you look at the John Smiths and an illegitimate birth....)
Anyway I'm worrying about his parents at the mo as resolving their marriage details if possible will help me resolve things on John Hogg (btw I'm slightly John Hogg obsessed at the moment and need to find out what he was doing between 1901 and 1912... ;) )
Anyway, Ive compiled a letter to the records office :)
And sent off for Mary's certificate... just have to wait now :)
Thanks!
Tx
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More news.....
The BMD reference for Mary Hogg is correct and now Ive seen her birth date it reminded me that her birthday was just after Christmas!! It has Alexander Hogg listed as a paper mill labourer and they lived at High Street, Jarrow.
Unfortunately the BMD index for the marriage of Alexander Hogg in 1886 is not to Agnes Jeffrey, so my search goes on. I've asked more questions about a possible missing entry to the South Tyneside registrar, but apart from that I am at a loss what to do next.....
Any suggestions are welcomed :-)
Thanks
Tx
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John Hogg - birth registration June qtr 1888 Berwick Reg Dist 10b 419
I think that this place of birth ties in with the census information doesn't it
Rosie
Thanks Rosie, it does tie perfectly but that John Hogg died in his infancy :(
Tx
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Hi sparkle - you're certainly trying all avenues!
If the South Tyneside registrar doesn't turn up the marriage, I'd wonder if they did marry.....
If the date was first quoted was soon after the "marriage" and that marriage can't be traced, then I'd suggest it was a fabrication as you've considered. If the date was first quoted some years later I'd wonder if the day & month were accurate, but the year had been "moved" forward for "respectability".
Suggestions, therefore, would be to look for a later marriage (upto the first death). I'd also look for any evidence of an earlier marriage for either party, where the spouse was still alive to prevent a legal marriage between Agnes & Alexander.
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Good thinking Mshrmh :)
I'll try the years up until the marriage date is quoted on a certificate.
Both Agnes and Alexander were illegitimate so I'm wondering if that was why they may have fabricated the marriage.... seems a shame if they did as they were together until they were elderly!
Heres a picture so you know who we are talking about :) They are the couple on the left.
Tx
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Great family pic, sparkle! Agnes reminds me of someone in one of my old photos - I'll have to have a dig & see who - someone "before my time" as they say.
Hope your hunt turns up something!
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Looks like it was a fabrication.... nothing from the register office although I got a lovely reply from them.... and nothing turning up with the alternative dates and locations....
Think its time to accept that they probably didn't marry and move on... at least I have their birth details etc . Thanks for everyones help! :)
Tx