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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: denben on Tuesday 06 April 04 14:29 BST (UK)

Title: War Service Records
Post by: denben on Tuesday 06 April 04 14:29 BST (UK)
I knew that one of my family had served in the first world war and by looking through the 'absent voters list' in my local reference library I have found details of his army number, his regiment etc.

Is it possible to get information about his service record?

I'm also puzzled that his number and regiment is different in 1918 and 1922.

Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: jaq on Tuesday 06 April 04 14:45 BST (UK)
hi Debden,
i have the PRO names disk.if he was on there, i can do a lookup .i also have essex regiment assistations.
let me know if i can help.
sorry i cant help with your original question i'm sure someone on here can help.
jaq
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: mrk82 on Tuesday 06 April 04 15:11 BST (UK)
http://www.pro.gov.uk/leaflets/riindex.asp (http://www.pro.gov.uk/leaflets/riindex.asp)

The above should give you the information you want about finding service records.  See British Army Soldiers' Papers First World War.

I am also intrigued about the PRO disk mentioned in the previous reply.  What actually is this?

Marc

Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: LindaFromOz on Tuesday 06 April 04 15:45 BST (UK)
The pro has the medal list from WW1 on line from A-H. Just got my ansecters medal list which i think received the silver star.
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: jaq on Tuesday 06 April 04 17:29 BST (UK)
I am also intrigued about the PRO disk mentioned in the previous reply.  What actually is this?
Marc

Hi Mark,
the PRO disks are
 "indexes to some miscellaneous personal names
occurring in documents at the
Public Record Office"
by  Stuart Tamblin and others.
includes:

ADM   104/146   Battle of Jutland Casualties, 1916         4,572
ADM   104/147   Battle of Jutland Casualties, 1916         2,238
AVIA   5/20      Air Ferry Crews lost, 1941              58
CHES   24/186/1   Cheshire Jurors, 1813               64
HD   3/3      Secret Service Pensioners, 1827           91
HO   13/16      Prisoners Pardoned, 1804/5            1,038
HO   20/13      Criminal Lunatics, Bethlehem Hospital, 1799-1843   233
HO   20/13      Criminal Lunatics, County Asylums, 1800-39      381
HO   26/56      Prisoners in Newgate Gaol, 1792-93         1,595
MEPO 4/353      Metropolitan Police Attestations, 1877      1,072
RAIL   134/40      Staff of Cornwall Railway, 1889         457
RG   4/3121      Everton, Liverpool Necropolis Burial Ground, 1825   552
WO   71      Court Martial Class List, 1879-1921         451

ADM   36/10774   Muster of HMS Bounty, 1787
ADM   53/37664   Casualty List, HMS Chester, 31 May 1916
ADM   53/47978   Casualty List, HMS Malaya, 31 May 1916
ADM   104/113   WRNS killed in service, 1940-41
ADM   116/1526   Casualty List, HMS Hampshire, 5 June 1916
ADM   116/1717   RNAS Armoured Cars, Russia
ADM   171/16   NZ Medal, 1845-47/1860-61/1863-66
ADM   171/70   RNR Long Service & Good Conduct Medal,
      1909-12, A-C
BT   98/2421-22   Seamen's Crew Agreements, Bristol, 1851
FO   83/646   Légion d'Honneur, 1856
MH   106/2223   Medical Sheets, Napsbury War Hospital,
      1917-20, Hea-Hy
WO   13/346   Musters of the Cornwall Militia, 1781-82
WO   71/343, 691-1322, 1337, 1350-52, 1414    Courts Martial, 1879-1970
WO   100/30   Medal Roll of the 55th Regiment of Foot;
      Crimea, 1855-56
ADM   1/5123/25   Impressed smugglers, 1824      (157 entries)
ADM   1/8463/178   HMS Warrior, trial of crew, 1916   (731)
ADM   36/16491   HMS Neptune, muster, 1805      (796)
ADM   242      RND War Graves, 1914-1920      (441 to date)
AIR   27/2128      617 Squadron - Dambusters crews, 1943   (186)
AIR   28/529      RAF Medan personnel, 1946      (234)
KB   32/23      Millbank Penitentiary returns, 1826   (335)
MH   106/1528   Napsbury Hospital Register, 1918-1919   (199)
WO   93/49      Soldiers executed, 1914-1920      (326)
ZJ   1/658      Canadians Mentioned in Despatches, 1918   (522)
ZJ   1/1460      BEMs, Birthday Honours, 1983      (247)

jaq
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: Sylviaann on Tuesday 06 April 04 17:37 BST (UK)
As someone mentioned the pro are making available online the First world war campaign medals.  www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk

According the The Family Tree magazine they will be available as follows

A-B January, C-e, March, F-J May,K-O July, P-S September, T-Z November

People did sometimes change regiments so their number would change.  This could have been the case with your ancestor after the war.

Sylvia
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: denben on Tuesday 06 April 04 20:01 BST (UK)
Thanks to everyone for your help.  I had previously tried the medal list but I didn't know the regiment and there were far too many "John Bennett"s for me to find the right one.

I now know that he served in the Monmouthshire Regiment and then the Worcesters and I believe that I've now found the right entry on the medal list (although there now seems to be a problem when I try to pay for and download the entry).

I'm still working my way through the leaflets to see if there is any info available but it seems that because he survived the war and continued to serve in the army until 1922 there might not be any records still available.

One interesting thing to come out of this is the fact that there were military details of all the entries in the 'absent voters list' in my local library - could be useful for other researchers.

Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: munchies on Saturday 10 April 04 11:11 BST (UK)
Are absent voters listed seperately or at the back of the electoral rolls for each year
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: denben on Saturday 10 April 04 11:59 BST (UK)
Are absent voters listed seperately or at the back of the electoral rolls for each year

I have often used the 'Register of Electors' in my local library, Newport City, Wales, and the absent voters are recorded in the back of the 'RoE' lists for each year.  These are recorded by address and give no details other than name.  

Last week I noticed that there was a book just titled "Absent Voters" and this is a separate list which gives the service details such as number, rank, battalion, regiment etc.    There were hundreds, perhaps thousands, of entries.  I was in a hurry when I found this so I didn't really have time to check exactly how this list was made up - I'm going to have another look next week.
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: Nigel1959 on Sunday 11 April 04 00:37 BST (UK)
TRY HERE IF THESE CANT HELP YOU NOBODY CAN

www.1914-1918.org
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: Steven1966 on Tuesday 13 April 04 09:32 BST (UK)
WW1 Service records are held at the PRO in file series WO 363,they are on Microfilm.They are known as the "Burnt Documents" because the Storage Depot on Arnside Street was bombed on the night of 08.09.1940.Be warned though only 30% (at a rough Quess) survived the fire.Those that survivved were water,smoke and fire damaged and as a result were EXTREMELY fragile,hence putting them onto microfilm.I have so far looked for 5 servicemen in this series,none of their files survived.If he was discharged after 1920 the files will still be held by the MOD.There is however a charge of £25.00 for a search and a waiting time currently heading for 6 months.

If he changed regiments,he may have been injured at some time.It was fairly common that after recuperation they would be sent back to a different Battalion or even a different Regiment altogether,depending on where replacements where needed most.I have an example of this,Thomas Coulson (one of my Grandmothers Uncles) was injured while serving with the Royal Berkshire Regiment.After recuperation in hospital he was sent to The Essex Regiment.This info,i obtained from his Medal Index Card.

Depending on how close you are to the PRO,it would be easier to look at the Medal Index Cards in person (they are all on Microfiche) copies at the PRO are only 25 pence.It's a pity i didn't join this forum last week,as i spent last Thursday at the PRO,looking at Service Files and Medal Index Cards.I would gladly have done some searching for you.

Stephen ;D
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: Steven1966 on Tuesday 13 April 04 09:45 BST (UK)
Just red all the postings again.You do say he was still in the army in 1922.His records would still be held by the MOD.

Together with Nigel1959 we were looking for one of his Great Grandfathers who served in WW1.He Joined the Royal Warwickshires for the duration of the war.After the end of WW1 he immediately re-enlisted this time into the Royal Worcester Regiment.This also might explain the change of regiment.

We were looking for a George Green,when the MOD eventually replied they sent a whole load of forms,including one where we had to prove Kinship !!.As i mentioned in the previous posting there is a Charge of £25.00 and a long waiting list,due to more pressing "welfare" issues.If you want the address and department to write to let me know,i have it in one of my files.

Stephen ;D
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: denben on Tuesday 13 April 04 20:04 BST (UK)
Thanks, Stephen, that's useful information.  I'm not sure but I believe that he was injured and this would account for the change of regiment.  He might also have received some form of pension on discharge.

The six month wait is a bit off-putting but I'll have a think about what to do next.
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: Buzancy18 on Wednesday 14 April 04 20:26 BST (UK)
What was his name?

Buzamcy18
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: suey on Thursday 15 April 04 13:26 BST (UK)

This is where to write for Service Records after WW1

You do have to be NOK, there is a fee and a long wait..

Historic Disclosures,
Mailpoint 44,
Kentigern House,
65 Brown Street,
Glasgow,
G2 8EX
Title: Re:War Service Records
Post by: juno on Tuesday 15 June 04 14:46 BST (UK)
Have a look at the 'Spinning the web' site --which shows the Roll of honour book for WW1
Title: Re: War Service Records
Post by: cowboy on Thursday 08 July 04 21:29 BST (UK)
Hi denben
Records of soldiers whose service ended before 1921 are held in the National Archives.

TRY enquiry@nationalarchive.gov.uk

or tele  02088763444

ALthough aprox fifty percent of all these records were desroyed  during the second worldwar it is still worth a try if you have his regimental number and regiments name.

Happy hunting. :)
Title: Re: War Service Records
Post by: juno on Thursday 08 July 04 21:41 BST (UK)
To see WW1 military records at Kew-you need to visit, or engage a researcher to look up the records there for you.

I dont think it is possible to do it any other way.
Title: Re: War Service Records
Post by: ellensophia on Friday 09 July 04 02:41 BST (UK)
I have recently been in contact with the national Archives re: War Service Records. This was their response.
Thank you for contacting The National Archives (TNA).
 
SOLDIERS DOCUMENTS BEFORE 1914
 
The basic framework of a soldier's career throughout most of the nineteenth century, can normally be traced through the surviving Muster Books and Pay lists of his regiment(s), which are kept here. Using these to find a man's whole career can take a long time.  For many, but not all soldiers, it is quicker and easier to start with the Soldier's (enlistment and/or discharge) Documents in the collection known as WO 97.  This does not include all soldiers.  Before 1883, it normally covers those soldiers who were discharged and received a pension.  From 1883 to 1913, most soldiers are included, if they survived their service.  It can be difficult to find records of soldiers who died in service, especially as the muster books stop altogether by 1898.
 
Please click on the links below to detailed information leaflets on Soldiers' Discharge Papers 1760-1913, Muster Rolls and Pay Lists c1730-1898, and Soldiers' Pension Records 1702-1913:
 
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ExternalRequest.asp?Request Reference=ri2005
 
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ExternalRequest.asp?Request Reference=ri2007
 
http:// www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk /ExternalRequest.asp?Request Reference=ri2006
 Hope this helps a bit.
Ellensophia
Title: Re: War Service Records
Post by: skippy on Saturday 10 July 04 01:03 BST (UK)
There is some helpful info on the following site which gives some advice and lists documents available. Its especially helpful re army records back to 1660.

http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/common/sitepages/ge6.asp 
Title: Re: War Service Records
Post by: Kazza on Saturday 10 July 04 01:26 BST (UK)
Skippy,

Thanks for that link,  it is a very useful one.  Put it into Useful links in the common room if you have not already,

Thanks  :D

Kazza.
Title: Re: War Service Records
Post by: clickaway on Wednesday 29 September 04 19:18 BST (UK)
I see that records for soldiers who came out of the Army after 1920 are held by the MoD.

I actually have one or two original documents of my grandfathers in my posession. One is a de-mob account which notes a war gratuity of £23 and three separate weeks pay, the last being 25 February 1919. But the form has been stamped 14 February 1924.

You'll note that there's a gap of exactly five years. Does that mean he only got his war pension after that time? Perhaps he was liable to be re-called during that time.

But would he count as coming out of the Army in 1919 or 1924? That would point to where his records may be.

Ray
Title: Re: War Service Records
Post by: floridagirl on Saturday 06 November 04 00:51 GMT (UK)
Don't know if anyones still looking for WW1 records, but I was given the name of a researcher last week, I e-mailed him last Sunday, he visited Kew on Tuesday, found my great grandfathers "Burnt Records" within an hour, he has sent the details out to me already.
He only charges £15 per hour and 30pence for each A3 photocopy.
It would have cost me between £75 and £100 to get to Kew and back plus the fact I would have lost a days pay from work, and I probably wouldn't have found anything anyway.
Money well spent wouldn't you say?
I would be happy to recommend him to anyone who is thinking of accessing Army records.
Regards,
Viv.
Title: Re: War Service Records
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 21 November 05 16:42 GMT (UK)
Jaq

I hope I read this correctly- but did you say you have access to some PRO disks? I am interested in seeing what was mentioned in the following list,regarding Eric Frances ROBINSON who went down with the ship.

 ADM   116/1526   Casualty List, HMS Hampshire, 5 June 1916

Would be very grateful if you would do a look up please.

All the best

Carol